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RE: =DF= March 15th Design Notes: Rainbow's End

 
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3/16/2019 13:08:09   
Silver
Member

Rather than having an invisible weapon that leaves a trail, I think it'd be pretty cool if "trails" became a separate item class. That way, if you equipped a trail it would be visible for any weapon you equip/show
Post #: 26
3/16/2019 15:45:30   
Randomnity
Member

As I recall, Doompoch was meant to be the more immediately offensive version of Epoch, because before Epoch was really frustrating to use for quests. Has anybody tried using it for that purpose instead of just boss fights, an area where Epoch already shined?
AQ  Post #: 27
3/16/2019 15:48:42   
Kurtz96
Member

quote:

Please tell me how Big and Small can be defeated by a Doom Knight, especially a V1. I don't see how it's possible. From what I've seen, Sentog and Dave are just too powerful against both versions of Doom Knight, especially Sentog against V1. Even V1's life carve can't keep up with firepower of that magnitude. I'd rather defeat them with Doom Knight (either version) since I'm getting bored of farming for the Peculiar Visor, lmao.

@Cyrenius
I beat Big and Small with DmK V1. Just get 2 stun guests like Mithra and Aegis. Stun lock the Tog and Life carve it to death. If you are lucky the tog will choose to attack one of your guests. Then Dave is irrelevant, just life carve to death. This strategy requires luck those so you will have to try a few times. I did it twice (for my 2 characters) in about 5 tries. This is actually the only challenge I have not beaten legitimately.

As for Primordials, DmK V2 is fine for that I think. Don't bother with getting 3 weapon types and don't pay attention to the colors, they don't matter; focus on when he removes buffs and skills. I never did and it did not matter cause remember that shape darkness has +200 bonus to hit. The squirrel nuke is easy to avoid. You can use Malefic binding, stack good resist, use weaken, or use reflect. Plus even without using shape darkness I hit the squirrel enough that I swear DmK has some secret bonus.

Regarding DmK V1:
TFS literally showed a video beating the Unraveller easier than DmK V1 life carve could. If fact there are plenty of skills in the game stronger than Life Carve now. So if the only reason for DmK V1 to be banned is life carve then shouldn't we allow it?

Objectively DmK V1 has 1 good skill, in all other areas it falls short, especially no defenses. BSW has a stronger nuke with a shorter cool down, Doom Epoch can do more damage (minus the life carve 15% versus high HP monsters), and DmK V1 is a mana hog.

DmK V2 is in my opinion a stronger class than DmK V1 and so is Doom Epoch.

< Message edited by Kurtz96 -- 3/16/2019 15:57:58 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 28
3/16/2019 16:40:20   
andybaum005
Member

B&S is actually pretty easy with DmK v2, at least with the right set-up. If you have high STR/END/WIS, along with a high amount of All resistance (Say, 40+) and a 200 protecc-dragon, and immediately focus on Dave first, you're pretty likely to win, even without using guests, 5-pots or hardtack/seaweed. They can't stun you, their damage is heavily reduced, and the healing you receive from both your dragon and life-carve makes it difficult-to-impossible for them to completely destroy you.

< Message edited by andybaum005 -- 3/16/2019 17:28:19 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 29
3/16/2019 17:35:52   
Pelly2500
Member

Here is my opinion on the Rainbow's edge:

I absolutely love the idea and attack animations look great but I have a few issues with it. For one it's quite laggy, and secondly I think 500DCs is a little too much for a cosmetic only item. More weapons like this design wise would be great in my opinion as long as they don't make things lag quite as much as this one. Also whenever you enter a new room the trail appears and lags the game for a brief period




DF AQW  Post #: 30
3/16/2019 19:32:16   
Cyrenius
Member

I defeated Big and Small with Doom Knight V1. I am still having difficulty with the Primordials though.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 31
3/16/2019 19:55:12   
Kurtz96
Member

For Primordials, get 5 potions from the forum and use 200 protection dragon. DmK V2 corruption will allow you to damage Uthuluc even when hit chitin is up. And remember that Malefic binding and reflect work even if his chitin is up. Once he is dead Sciuridaehotep is not an issue.

Is there anything special about the weapon from the lucky maze? Cause I don't get the point of releasing anymore general purpose light weapons when the ultimate destiny weapons exist. Why would anyone use this new weapon if it does not have a special gimmick? Its not like the ultimate destiny weapons are hard to get. Their challenge has been powercrept and is no longer challenging.

< Message edited by Kurtz96 -- 3/16/2019 19:56:01 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 32
3/16/2019 20:21:26   
LurkBlackSmith
Member

If my hunch of the weapon from the lucky maze is that's its a simple reward for those that have no time to do the quest for the royalty vault weaponry and the inn challenges to get upgraded destiny weapons.

Also a reward quest drop for everybody else. Since the Exaltia tower's reward is behind the time inn, a seasonal drop until another permanent item that's not behind the time inn challenge and not seasonal as well comes by.

Ain't ya forgetting the user who loves to collects all the scythes as well? Its a casual filler for N-DA, those that have DC,DA users that ain't on the forums.

< Message edited by LurkBlackSmith -- 3/16/2019 21:07:17 >
DF  Post #: 33
3/16/2019 21:44:00   
Gedharm
Member

Not gonna lie, I was super hyped for Doom Epoch but got quite disappointed with what it ended up packing.

Don't get me wrong, it is powerful, but when the whole deal about being a bursty version of the Epoch class came up, I was hoping we'd get better turn 1 damage, sort of what the dragonlord artifacts work - one that helps rushing quests, one that helps fighting long battles (like the Eternal Locket currently does, too).

I feel like the Doom Epoch completely REPLACES Eternal Epoch right now. The damage is super busted, and the niche is the same. Eternal Epoch gets a little bit more sustain and overall resources with the extra momentum and boost/hex, sure, but Doom Epoch also gets longevity by having a better stun, stronger debuffs, instant 3-charge skill and absurd damage through the ultra hex/boost.

I know it is too late, but I hope this year's upcoming Epoch artifact has more focus on the turn 1 damage. A very long cooldown Final skill that instead of using up momentum generates it, along with some nice bursty damage (the equivalent of Eternal Epoch's 6 momentum? I don't know). A multiattack that has cooldown instead of the cufrent spammy multiattack, but hits stronger/multiple times per enemy. A basic attack that hits more than once, or a faster combo.

Very simple changes that wouldn't make Epoch unbalanced/OP, but a better class to take on long quests filled with short encounters.
Post #: 34
3/16/2019 23:50:30   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member


I mean, you do get instantaneous Gunburst at three Momentum right from the start, but that seem to be itís only real Questing Bursts to me, really. Gunburst, fortunately, is a very strong move for farming, though I was honestly kinda hoping that weíd get other moves to use for Offesnse too? Now, donít get me wrong, Corrupted Doom Epoch is broken and definitely deserves a nerf because 100% PowerBoost on -60 All with a really strong Final Skill and Double Turns (so you can use Chi Bomb) are, in conjucnction, pretty busted, and even though itís going to get a nerf, the currnt version represents a class more focused in the Inn too. Maybe something like DragonWarrior would work instead, where you sacrifice your defenses for offensive capabilities?

Oh yeah, and about the aesthetics of the class itself, I really love the Color Custom floating pad, it looks really cool!

< Message edited by BluuHorseOfficial -- 3/17/2019 0:00:30 >
DF  Post #: 35
3/17/2019 1:01:32   
Cyrenius
Member

I should have had the primordials. I did everything right, but reflect did not work properly. And I had full or almost full health too. I had Cthulhu defeated, the squirrel was down to his last life. God it pisses me off to be so close and yet victory stolen from me due to reflect not working properly!

< Message edited by Cyrenius -- 3/17/2019 1:04:18 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 36
3/17/2019 1:38:08   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

Defeating an opponent with a damage reflect skill seems to be buggy, presently. Try using the Ranger strategy.
DF MQ  Post #: 37
3/17/2019 2:28:19   
Silver
Member

quote:

I should have had the primordials. I did everything right, but reflect did not work properly. And I had full or almost full health too. I had Cthulhu defeated, the squirrel was down to his last life. God it pisses me off to be so close and yet victory stolen from me due to reflect not working properly!

damage reflection doesn't work against the squirrel's nuke
I'd recommend using not so tiny bubbles to reduce the number of hits you take
Post #: 38
3/17/2019 2:40:17   
Cyrenius
Member

The damage was reduced by the first nuke. Not the second nuke. I almost had the squirrel down, just not quite.

< Message edited by Cyrenius -- 3/17/2019 2:42:30 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 39
3/17/2019 3:10:50   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member


The Squirrelís Tentacles are immune to damage reflection, so the best strategy is to use Corruption > Malefic Binding. Damage Reflection on DoomKnight works perfectly fine, itís actually bugged on Pirate and doesnít reflect properly. Also Iím guessing this should be on the Battle Strategy Thread at this point because itís getting a bit too offtupac

Also, again, you would know this thing about damage reflection if you checked either the Pedia or the Endgame Wiki.

< Message edited by BluuHorseOfficial -- 3/17/2019 3:11:42 >
DF  Post #: 40
3/17/2019 5:50:02   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

The best squirrel strategy is to set up a damage reflect, then stun the squirrel and nuke it. You should try it.
DF MQ  Post #: 41
3/17/2019 6:48:05   
Pelly2500
Member

In regards to Doom Epoch, I agree with BluuHorse. Gunburst is pretty much your only strong early turn questing move. In my opinion it doesn't have enough bursty damage in shorter fights. I think it needs another good early turn damage move that doesn't use momentum.
Instead of a class that's super bursty, we have a class that is arguably currently better at taking down bosses than eternal epoch, although it doesn't have sustain outside of pets and weapon procs, it doesn't need them since it can just delete bosses.

< Message edited by Pelly2500 -- 3/17/2019 6:51:20 >
DF AQW  Post #: 42
3/17/2019 8:26:04   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member


Exactly, Doom Epoch currently just represents a (admittedly incredibly powerful) class thatís great at bossing with no source of sustain, rather than a general questing class. While Gunburst is 305% damage from the getgo, if youíre using it to farm a quest like Castle Valtrith with high regular enemy HP or Tea for Three/Exaltia Tower with higher regular enemy HP, youíre not going to be killing them in turn one, unless you have Uragiri or Verraad equipped (or in the Exaltia Case, respective element weakness weapon, but even then you canít quite kill them). Sure, Doom Epoch definitely has a bunch of strong modifiers and dish out strong damage, but those are generally useful for Bossing Content, and if youíre going to be farming a particaular quest, you normally wouldnít Boost Overload and then Sound Blast each battle to be able to dish out a strong Gunburst/Final against regular mooks with, say, 1.5k health.
However, it does have Shockwave, which is has a Fast Animation and a 1-turn Stun in conjunction with Gunburst or with Punch into Combos should be able to kill them, so maybe itís a matter of me having to test out different aspects of the class more, I guess
Unfortunately, Doom Epoch is in a weird position as of right now, as you cannot buff itís skills at the present state because itís already overpowered by a large margin.

Itís important to note the presence of Rage DragonLord which seems to be doing Doompochís Job of general questing better than it, at the moment .

quote:

The best squirrel strategy is to set up a damage reflect, then stun the squirrel and nuke it. You should try it.
You forgot getting The Witness to a low HP threshold and killing them both off together by nuking the Squirrel and getting your pet to kill the Witness.




Actually, Making Timeshift actually usable on the first turn would be good too, to be honest. That would make it better for killing multiple opponents.

< Message edited by BluuHorseOfficial -- 3/17/2019 11:32:29 >
DF  Post #: 43
3/17/2019 12:21:36   
TFS
Member

So after playing around with Epoch for a couple days, I think I've got my two cents collected.

Corrupted Doom Epoch, specifically Power Overload, is way too strong; the class isn't as much a glass cannon as it is a glass hydrogen bomb. While starting off at 3 Momentum allows the class to quickly tear through mooks, making up for the shortcomings of its Eternal counterpart, the sheer power of its 100 Boost also allows it to tear through single target boss fights far better than Eternal Epoch could hope to. As far as Inn challenges go, while it struggles against duos and trios, CDE's ability to outright one-shot any single target from full health is nuts; it's the exact same ability the formerly gamebreaking DragonFable Friends trinket used to have. The nerf I'd expect to occur is Power Overload having its duration reduced by a turn, meaning you can only power up one attack, and only if you're under Timeshift.

Eternal Epoch definitely deserved the nerf to potion momentum, but the downtime on Timeshift feels like a very unnecessary kick in the teeth. Permanent double turns is the backbone of the class's playstyle, and being down for a few turns is a really unnecessary hiccup. The concept behind the class is that it's hard to get going, but once you're a body in motion you stay in motion; the potions nerf definitely helps that, but I feel the timeshift nerf detracts from that. While the two turns of vulnerability don't hamper the class offensively too much (timed, controlled burst is where most of your damage is coming from) it becomes extremely vulnerable defensively. The class's defensive skills are built around Timeshift (Fade having a fairly long cooldown and Hex/Boost taking multiple turns to cast means you're a sitting duck without your double turns) and by the time you've gotten to that point you've already eaten a lot of dirt during the first few turns of the fight; I'm not a very big fan of going back to being a sitting duck once you've finally entered Timeshift and gotten started.

Also, I really like Rainbow's Edge. The combination of your weapon being invisible but making a cool blur effect when you move is really nice; I'd really like to see more of these items in the future.

< Message edited by TFS -- 3/17/2019 12:29:22 >
DF  Post #: 44
3/17/2019 12:23:46   
  Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat


Regarding Corrupted Doom Epoch's balance:

I don't think its turn 1 burst should be any stronger. Some fights, especially in more recent "VerlyScale" quests, just take 2 or more turns to complete instead of 1.
Even 2 turns is very powerful for dealing that much damage upfront.

In wars and simpler quests, the class should perform very well on turn 1.

I like where its maximum potential is at, however, I do believe that it is currently too safe to set up. I plan to increase the risk, combined with other changes, on Monday.
AQ MQ  Post #: 45
3/17/2019 13:25:05   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member


Bring Back OG Gunburst reeeeeeee 12 hits of 30% damage Fair and Balancedô

quote:

I don't think its turn 1 burst should be any stronger. Some fights, especially in more recent "VerlyScale" quests, just take 2 or more turns to complete instead of 1.
Even 2 turns is very powerful for dealing that much damage upfront.

In wars and simpler quests, the class should perform very well on turn 1.
When you put it this way, Verly, I could definitely see myself adjusting to this type of Playstyle, especially given the fact that we have Shockwave from the beginning for both, a strong damaging move and a 1-turn stun to just allow you to take it down next turn.

Thinking about it from the right angle, I kinda may have been asking for the game to cater to my needs from the way I came off xd

While itís a fun class to use, no doubt, Iíd kinda refrain from using it on wars because its animations are a bit long, I would use Ancient Exosuit or Rage Dragonlord instead, but thatís really only just my personal preference if anything. However, for regular quests, Iíd definitely start using it because of how fun it is to use.

quote:

I like where its maximum potential is at, however, I do believe that it is currently too safe to set up. I plan to increase the risk, combined with other changes, on Monday.
Tbqh, I did enjoy spitting out large numbers after a bit of setting up, heh. I definitely see how this will be more enjoyable once there are consequences to the buffs, similar to DragonWarrior, to make it an actual glass cannon.

Personally, Iíd say that Defense Boost could be removed, since that detracts from the point of the class being a glass cannon, and potentially be replaced with something else such as an auto Firebrand Effect such as a Crit Boost? I mean, functionally, this would probably be either a tad redundant or a tad Overpowered, Iím assuming (but Iím really not too sure as it may be different to what Iím thinking of in Practice), as it grants you autocrit on the next move in that turn and the whole next turn. However, Final is AutoCrit anyway, so it wouldnít make a difference on that skill, though itíll definitely impact Chi Bomb and make Argus Skywatcher break its kneecaps. Punch being a skill Powerful as it is, this could deal tons of damage too :P.

quote:

the downtime on Timeshift feels like a very unnecessary kick in the teeth
Yeah, I agree, maybe the Class could have another aspect nerfed to compensate for being allowed to loop double turns? Though the only thing I can really think of is reducing the damage on Combo, I guess :P.
DF  Post #: 46
3/17/2019 13:55:00   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*


quote:

In wars and simpler quests, the class should perform very well on turn 1.

I would like to see Chargeburst only do the animation once instead of 3 times, and also do higher than 140%.
Putting aside how strong the class is in 1v1, it's still not going to be very good as a war class because its animations are very long.
DF AQW  Post #: 47
3/17/2019 14:27:28   
Kurtz96
Member

Can someone explain to me how Doom Epoch doesn't totally outclass both versions of DmK? Like I know that it must be true because the devs wouldn't create a class stronger than DmK but I can't see how it is weaker.

Epoch final nuke is stronger than DmK, especially with -60 all and +100 boost. And Epoch can beat Inn bosses easier than both versions of DmK, if not a bit slower. Like DmK only advantage over Epoch is faster speed for wars and questing.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 48
3/17/2019 14:28:16   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member


It could be nice if Gunburst only had one big shot, and did 125%, 185%, 245% and 305% based on if you have one, two or three charges up respectively on just the big shot so as to save time, I guess? Then again, it kinda does remove the feel of the move though a toggle button somewhere near the Attack Button that allowed you to shorten or lengthen the animations would be cool.




quote:

Can someone explain to me how Doom Epoch doesn't totally outclass both versions of DmK? Like I know that it must be true because the devs wouldn't create a class stronger than DmK but I can't see how it is weaker.

Epoch final nuke is stronger than DmK, especially with -60 all and +100 boost. And Epoch can beat Inn bosses easier than both versions of DmK, if not a bit slower. Like DmK only advantage over Epoch is faster speed for wars and questing.
Firstly, DoomKnight Variant One has Life Carve which steals one sixth of the foeís HP, which literally takes down enemies in six turns (or if they have special gimmicks, it takes more time but is assured victory). Secondly, it is still in its testing phase and hence, is subject to be changed, very soon at that.
Verlyrus said the following earlier:
quote:

I like where its maximum potential is at, however, I do believe that it is currently too safe to set up. I plan to increase the risk, combined with other changes, on Monday.
What he meant by this is that itís going to have the same (or similar) amount of Power on its Nuke, but will also come with repercussions such as a lack of defenses, and is yet to be implemented soon.

< Message edited by BluuHorseOfficial -- 3/17/2019 14:34:44 >
DF  Post #: 49
3/17/2019 14:34:41   
Da Awesomancer
Member

I've gotta say, I like Doom Epoch so far. It seems kinda OP with the whole, Attack overcharge + whatever you super attack you have thing it's got going, but that seems to be somewhat balanced by the fact that performance drops off once you run out of double turns. Having that capped at 6 with the normal recharge on it really cuts into long term performance.

Well, that and a lack of HP recovery skills, not much sustain there either. But I suppose that was likely the point.
DF AQW  Post #: 50
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