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April 14th Design Notes: Combat Update Follow-Up 2

 
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4/14/2019 23:07:41   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

quote:



Verlyrus:

Combat Update Follow-Up 2

Hey there, heroes!

I know, I know, it's been a volatile weekend for stats. This should be the last update though (bar any extreme unforseen issues). I will follow up later with a summary of all stats.

Changes today:

--- STR now increases damage of non-critical hits by (STR/10)%.
----------- 20% at 200 STR.
--- DEX now increases all direct damage to enemies affected by DoT effects (except for Vaal's Ego) by 3(DEX/80)%.
----------- 7.5% at 200 DEX.

STR and DEX were still too niche with the buffs to their secondary damage effects. These changes bring them in line with the damage bonus from INT, while still giving them their own (admittedly small) identity.

I can understand that you may see DEX's 7.5% and think, wait, that seems low! Well, here's the math breakdown.

Assuming a 100 base damage (no boosts), and 100 crit (50% crit chance):

--- STR/LUK results in an average of 150 damage.
----------- 55% chance for 1.75x damage, 45% chance for 1.2x damage.
--- INT/LUK results in an average of 152 damage.
----------- 55% chance for 1.95x damage, 45% chance for 1x damage.
--- DEX/LUK results in an average of 152 damage.
----------- 55% chance for 1.88125x damage, 45% chance for 1.075x damage
--- STR/INT results in an average of 158 damage
----------- 50% chance for 120, 50% chance for 195.
--- INT/DEX results in an average of 159 damage
----------- 50% chance of 108, 50% chance of 210.
--- DEX/STR results in an average of 159 damage
----------- 50% chance of 129, 50% chance of 188.

As you can see, DEX is on par with INT and STR for damage, even if its boost number seems low. Its damage may seem slightly higher, but also keep in mind that it requires a DoT to first be applied to an enemy in order to take effect.

LUK's damage might seem low, but it does provide other benefits beside Crit, and is non-conditional.

Other changes:

--- Enemy damage now scales less with guests. (Enemies now gain 25% 50% more damage per guest, down from 75%.
--- Pet dragons (kid, toddler, and baby) can now be summoned in battle.
--- Equipping a pet while in battle will stun it for a turn with "Waking Up".

These changes are to make CHA a more attractive option, while also managing pet swapping.

Lowering the risk of taking guests makes them stronger, and pet dragons are one of the main beneficiaries of CHA.

However, pets are very strong, and being able to constantly swap them out for free is a little too powerful, especially with the pet dragon. As a result, the Waking Up stun has been added, which prevents pets from attacking on the turn that they are equipped.



I am aware that stat training costs are currently a bit high. This is something that I would like to address in the future, but unfortunately cannot be done at the moment. For this, I apologize.

I would like to thank everyone who has provided feedback and criticism- I know even with these changes, some players may still be dissatisfied. However, we will see what the future brings!



Have feedback about the proposed combat changes? Having trouble with any fights? Want to discuss all things DragonFable?

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Tags: Verlyrus


< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 4/14/2019 23:34:09 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
4/14/2019 23:36:42   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

Also, a change unlisted here is that turn order is no longer random; the order is now always:

Player -> pet -> guest 1 -> guest 2 -> monster 1 -> monster 2 -> monster 3
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
4/14/2019 23:40:36   
EdyMaster
Member

Wow! These seem like excellent changes at first glance. I will run to the game to take a look and form my opinion.
DF  Post #: 3
4/14/2019 23:44:47   
Kurtz96
Member

With these new stat changes, any suggestions for a build for Ascendant. Still new the the class. I am looking for a Inn challenge build since I just use DmK V1 for story line quests.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 4
4/14/2019 23:50:46   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

I very much agree, I like these changes a lot.

@Kurtz - I haven't gotten around to working out whether Asc should work the DoT into its rotation and/or invest in Dex, however you're still just as forced to use Int as previously so it's either going to be Int/End for survival/stun resist, Int/Wis if you need tons of Bonus (Exaltia bosses, Sporca), Int/Cha for utilizing the much higher guest viability now that they don't buff enemy health and the buff to enemy damage is smaller, and either Int/Luk or Int/Str or Int/Dex for solo offense, which I've yet to figure out the optimal choice for.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
4/14/2019 23:55:02   
Kurtz96
Member

Right now I am using a INT/END build because I hate stuns and even with the current stun nerfs I don't like being at the mercy of RNG.

I have never used NSTB before but do you think it is needed for Ascendant? People always bring it up but I have never found a need for it playing DmK V2 or BSW or Epoch.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 6
4/14/2019 23:58:52   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

It's never strictly required, but it's a very powerful defensive tool.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
4/15/2019 0:01:27   
toannghe1997
Member

This update makes me really want to make another character and build him up to have 200 cha/luk. Adding in the bonus cha/luk from gears, it might be possible to make a heal-loop build with the baby dragon constantly using the protection special. Alas, leveling up takes too much time, so I will just wait for the re-training price swept instead.
AQ Epic  Post #: 8
4/15/2019 0:19:08   
EdyMaster
Member

Guys, I just looked over and I'm already happy with these changes. The possibilities and combinations appear to be incredible and work for all classes.

I just used my Cryptic and quickly realized that STR that had trained on it before does rather difference in non-crit. A good difference. Also the DEX damage bonus for enemies with DoT status is so good and works so well on Cryptic because DoT is looped. I really did not expect a change like this, it greatly benefited any offensive class that contained a DoT skill in its kit, which definitely did not occur earlier. For now I do not know about classes like Ninja that despite having several DoT also have skills with a reasonably low base damage, so maybe they do not have a big impact, but I can not say for now.

Anyway I'm very excited about it!

< Message edited by EdyMaster -- 4/15/2019 0:25:53 >
DF  Post #: 9
4/15/2019 0:21:35   
abbc de
Member

So before the update, was there another stat that increased crit besides LUK? Because I noticed that logging in after these changes were made, I lost 1 crit and 1 Bonus. The Bonus I see, because of the transfer from INT to WIS, but I dont see where I lose 1 point of crit. I have the same equipment on my character before the changes, and after the changes as well.

EDIT: It's not something that I'll lose sleep over, but I'm just wondering why the numbers seem just a tiny bit off now.

< Message edited by abbc de -- 4/15/2019 0:22:28 >
Post #: 10
4/15/2019 0:29:24   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

There was not, but previously Crit and Bonus from stats always rounded up; now, they always round down. Final damage inflicted was also changed from always rounding up to rounding naturally.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
4/15/2019 0:33:45   
abbc de
Member

@Sakurai Ah, ok, that makes sense then. Thanks.

As a sidenote, I'm liking the changes to the stats so far, but the only thing I'm confused about is the numbers that Verly wrote above, comparing each main stat with LUK. With his given numbers, how is it that theres a 55% crit chance, and 45% non crit? He said assume 100 crit, so I don't see where the extra 5% crit chance is coming from.
Post #: 12
4/15/2019 1:11:45   
LordKnight01
Member

@abbc de

Assuming 100 crit doesn't include training LUK. 5% extra crit means extra 10 crit from training LUK. 55% crit chance = 110 crit
DF AQW  Post #: 13
4/15/2019 1:12:13   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

Oh, huh. It's coming from Luk, but that should actually be 60% crit chance if the 100 is before investing any Luk, otherwise it's only assuming 100 Luk (+5%) compared to 200 of everything else. So, actual numbers are only very slightly different but should be:

--- STR/LUK results in an average of 153 damage.
----------- 60% chance for 1.75x damage, 40% chance for 1.2x damage.
--- INT/LUK results in an average of 157 damage.
----------- 60% chance for 1.95x damage, 40% chance for 1x damage.
--- DEX/LUK results in an average of 156 damage.
----------- 60% chance for 1.88125x damage, 40% chance for 1.075x damage

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 4/15/2019 1:15:01 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
4/15/2019 1:28:12   
EdyMaster
Member

Maybe the calculations were done using LUK / 20 as it was a while back. LUK is an excellent hybrid stat now after the slight increase in its MPM. It leaves nothing to be desired in its offensive part compared to other stas and provides a good extra defense capability.
DF  Post #: 15
4/15/2019 2:53:58   
Flamerider345
Member

Haven't tried out the changes yet but the fact that we can summon our kid dragon is amazing....I mean growing up
Ur dragon just wasn't tat beneficial B4 but now it definitely is (even if there is a first turn stun on them).

Though it kinda sucks I never got try out the stun resist bypass (since my base is rouge).

DF MQ  Post #: 16
4/15/2019 3:51:50   
JariTheMighty
Member

STR and INT are now completely even at 50% crit chance. Expected damage between 200 STR + 0 INT and 0 STR + 200 INT is identical. STR is superior at below 50% crit, and INT takes the cake at over 50% crit, which means it greatly benefits from LUK. The balance between the two is pretty good now.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 17
4/15/2019 23:55:06   
abbc de
Member

Ok, so with the summary update on stats earlier today, I have a couple questions.

1. The Resistances part. I'm aware of the 80 cap on any resistance coming from gears, but the 99 part I thought was only for the Necromancer skill thing, where it gives the player 99 All. Verly said that that's the highest any resistance can be on a player, so does that mean that if I have 70 Immobility resistance, and 30 All, it's effectively 99 Immobility resistance?

2. The Direct Hit part. Verly said "If the roll against M/P/M PLUS the Direct Hit bonus from LUK (LUK/25, rounded down) is 150 or higher, then you get a Direct Hit!". Does the roll count the player's Bonus as well when we roll for a Direct Hit?

Other than that, I think I'm all good. I like how there's finally a summary of what the stats do. Keep up the good work Verly!

Edit: I lied, lol. I have one more question. When we fail a check for M/P/M, do we just get a miss, or could we still get a glancing blow?


< Message edited by abbc de -- 4/15/2019 23:58:00 >
Post #: 18
4/16/2019 0:27:17   
Greyor_42
Member

quote:

The Resistances part. I'm aware of the 80 cap on any resistance coming from gears, but the 99 part I thought was only for the Necromancer skill thing, where it gives the player 99 All. Verly said that that's the highest any resistance can be on a player, so does that mean that if I have 70 Immobility resistance, and 30 All, it's effectively 99 Immobility resistance?


First, to clear a misunderstanding up, Necromancer's Shroud skill doesn't give 99 All, that'd be an absurdly broken skill if it did. It simply give +140 of whatever element you were last hit by, which caps you out at 99 for it. Second, yes, having 70 Immobility and 30 all caps out at 99. Likewise, having 64 All(the most possible All resist you can get from gear at the moment) and 40 Immobility will still cap it out at 99 immobility resist total.

quote:

The Direct Hit part. Verly said "If the roll against M/P/M PLUS the Direct Hit bonus from LUK (LUK/25, rounded down) is 150 or higher, then you get a Direct Hit!". Does the roll count the player's Bonus as well when we roll for a Direct Hit?



It does not, it's just the MPM roll. If bonus was counted, Verly would have said something along the lines of "If the roll against M/P/M plus your Bonus plus the Direct Hit bonus from LUK".

quote:

When we fail a check for M/P/M, do we just get a miss, or could we still get a glancing blow?


No, you get a miss. This was stated in the latest design note "stats and you" in the part where it explains how hits and misses are determined. If your M/P/M roll combined with your Bonus is lower than your opponent's M/P/M, it's lower. Which means a miss. Furthermore, if what you rolled against the M/P/M was a 0, Bonus isn't even applied, it just auto-misses, kind of like a Nat 1 in Dungeons and Dragons.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 4/16/2019 0:30:29 >
DF  Post #: 19
4/16/2019 0:30:38   
dragonlord555
Member
 

What does each stat do now, there's been quite a few changes I can't keep up.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 20
4/16/2019 0:32:49   
Greyor_42
Member

Verly figured some people would have trouble with that, which is why he made this: https://www.dragonfable.com/gamedesignnotes/stats-and-you-7377
DF  Post #: 21
4/16/2019 4:27:11   
JariTheMighty
Member

^Excellent recap.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 22
4/16/2019 9:37:12   
CorkSulker
Member
 

is it alright to ask, since the devs will follow-up on making the respec cheaper, can they also add a skip button to cutscenes.

[i can understand if past quest will be tedious, but how about the newer quests?]

EDIT: [just to make the grinding for items easier]

< Message edited by CorkSulker -- 4/16/2019 9:40:28 >
Post #: 23
4/16/2019 13:11:33   
Greyor_42
Member

Newer quests generally have skip buttons already implemented, cork.
DF  Post #: 24
4/16/2019 15:05:08   
abbc de
Member

@Greyor Ah, ok, thank you for the response.
Post #: 25
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