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RE: =AQW= Design Notes May 10th, 2019: Legion Revenant Member-only Class Test + Tonight: A Game of Groans

 
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5/13/2019 21:12:27   
you stop
Member

ultra akriloth
lvl 90 enh, unarmed, spiral carve

average time:
LDK: 4:00~
VHL: 3:30~
LC: 3:00~
Legion Revenant: 2:15~

send help

i think i should also point out that mana vamp and hp vamp are treated as magic damage and therefore receive boosts from both 4 and 5. it's hitting about 16k nukes with the same setup

i tried BBoA no awe enh. this class does not scale well with weapon boosts. lightcaster scales extremely exponentially with weapon boosts and they both achieve similar timers. i should point out that LR is still slightly better.
lvl 90 bboa no awe enh vs aranx
revenant
1:56
1:56
2:04

lc
2:11
2:03
2:02

i thought it was sketchy with LR seeing as a 30% boost no awe has similar times to unarmed with awe but i tried retesting both again but they really just ended up producing similar results

< Message edited by you stop -- 5/13/2019 23:33:15 >
AQW  Post #: 26
5/14/2019 2:17:36   
HORRIOR
Member

I suppose the class should get a bit nerfed.

Being able to boost your damage 150% is a bit OP, 100% should be enough.

Now I know this class is meant to be legion equivalent of VHL, but no matter how many legion tokens it requires to get, it will never be as difficult to get as VHL, so people will opt for it instead.
Because of this, I think it should be nerfed a bit for balancing reasons.

Still though I see what they were going for, it takes a lot of build up to get yourself to the OP status. 15 activations of a random skill, and stacking defense increases over time.
Where as with VHL, you will have the damage and defense, while in a slightly lesser extent, much quicker.

The only difference is that this thing has spammable Decay skill, forever preventing a pvp opponent from healing.

So yeah, considering you can probably get this class pretty easily after spending 2000 ac on a paragon pet, it needs to be nerfed.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 27
5/14/2019 5:09:16   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


quote:

average time:
LDK: 4:00~
VHL: 3:30~
LC: 3:00~
Legion Revenant: 2:15~

Are you using old benchmarks or something for LDK, VHL and LC? Because those times seem like a lazy man's times. My own times on Ultra Akriloth, same conditions:

LDK:
2:56
3:26 (lost stacks at about 200k HP left)
3:19

VHL (using both Shackle and Unshackle):
2:48
2:34
2:36

LC:
2:13
2:15
2:18

So if those are your LR times, it's equal to LC long term and not as stupidly powerful as you think it is (from the perspective of LC and VHL already existing for a couple years now).

quote:

Now I know this class is meant to be legion equivalent of VHL, but no matter how many legion tokens it requires to get, it will never be as difficult to get as VHL, so people will opt for it instead.
Because of this, I think it should be nerfed a bit for balancing reasons.
...
So yeah, considering you can probably get this class pretty easily after spending 2000 ac on a paragon pet, it needs to be nerfed.

There has been a lot of discussion around how someone will be able to get their hands on LR, and the general consensus based on Dev statements, is that it's gonna be a multi-quest kind of thing, like Archpaladin and Arch Doomknight, just extended to a point where it's gonna take much more than a mere day to obtain. Legion Tokens may be a requirement, but not the only requirement and I have at least some faith in them not releasing this thing for simple Legion Tokens. LC is still gonna be the "easy" alternative to LR, given they function very similarly to each other, even in performance (brushing aside HP sustain, since that difference irrelevant in most situations and it's more so about the DPS comparisons). Both even have the requirement of at the very least having 1k+ ACs at once at some point, a requirement VHL doesn't have, and that's a big deal for some individuals.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 5/14/2019 5:11:37 >
AQW  Post #: 28
5/14/2019 5:32:12   
you stop
Member

quote:

Are you using old benchmarks or something for LDK, VHL and LC?
Nah. Had a friend help me test for the most part. The LC one was the weird one since there are time where early on, I'd run out of mana and mess up timers due to that but otherwise it's fine
AQW  Post #: 29
5/14/2019 19:08:07   
dragon wrath
Member

Been having trouble catching up. Will there be a requirement to get this class? To be specific will it require me to have some old class in order to obtain?
AQW  Post #: 30
5/14/2019 19:54:17   
you stop
Member

Any old Dark Caster or new if I recall correctly
AQW  Post #: 31
5/14/2019 20:00:29   
Veya
Member

> "Will there be a requirement to get this class?"

Yes, of course.

> "To be specific will it require me to have some old class in order to obtain?"

The only requirement we know of for this class is that it will require any of the Dark Caster classes, the way it was phrased seem to include any of them either the originals(Dark Caster, Legion Evolved Dark Caster, Evolved Dark Caster, Mystic Dark Caster, Arcane Dark Caster) or the rereleased versiosn(Infinite Dark Caster, Infinite Legion Dark Caster, Timeless Dark Caster, Immortal Dark Caster), as long as you have at least one of those classes, you should be good to be able to start farming for the class.
AQW  Post #: 32
5/14/2019 20:29:54   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

I think LR will be rank 10 Dark Caster OR 2000 ACs
AQ AQW  Post #: 33
5/15/2019 2:15:43   
Lujikul
Member

No way they'd let you only drop 2000 acs for a class this powerful. I'd bet it'll be locked behind a rank 10 dark caster form, a stupid amount of farming, and an exorbitant amount of legion tokens (based on ESC costing 2000 tokens, I'd say 3000-5000 for this if it's staying this strong).
Post #: 34
5/15/2019 2:28:33   
Nameless King
Member
 

I don't think this class is that OP~It's got them LC damage and VHL survivability so yeah,it's just the combination of those two~I can't even survive fighting against Darkclaw or General Icewing lol so no,it's not even OP~It's just powerful~It's quite balance to be honest~Those 150% damage boost would be better if the class hit like 50k normally but alas the damage that it can do dissapoint me~It's just another copy of LC in terms of damage
Post #: 35
5/15/2019 3:44:12   
you stop
Member

Well I wouldn't say it's just another copy of LC so to speak. It does hit its damage cap faster so on a certain amount of lower HP bosses, it should be better.

Also they said this'll be a VHL level farm so I dont think it'll just be another 2k AC (although you can buy the Dark Caster classes for 2k) and neither will it be just a rank 10 Dark Caster
AQW  Post #: 36
5/15/2019 10:06:41   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

They did the same thing with BlazeBinder. Rank 10 Pyro OR 2000 AC
AQ AQW  Post #: 37
5/15/2019 11:06:13   
Veya
Member

It's a very different context for the two classes though, BB is a good, but not irreplaceable, farming class, LR is meant to be the Legion equivalent of VHL.
AQW  Post #: 38
5/15/2019 11:14:39   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

The point is that the classes might have similar availabilities
AQ AQW  Post #: 39
5/15/2019 13:22:01   
LordKnight01
Member

@Beshin Adin

Did you test the class after fixing rank 10 passive skill?
Before fixing the bug, LR looks like tanker-BlazeBinder or Buff BlazeBinder.

After fixing the bug, LR is a bit more OP than VHL. Thus, it should be difficult to get it like VHL.

I guess that the farming quest will probably use 25,000 LT for 1 Roentgenium of Dage and use 15 Roentgenium of Dages to merge the class.
Also use a lot of Dage's Favor, Dage's Approval, Emblem of Dage, Diamond Badge of Dage, 1v1 Legion PVP trophy and Legion Combat trophy to merge the class.
Require rank 10 Evil, rank 10 one type of dark caster classes.
DF AQW  Post #: 40
5/15/2019 13:41:41   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

My guess is that there might be about 2-3 ways to get it:

- 10,000 LT and rank 10 Dark Caster (any)
- 2000 - 5000 AC
- merge any 2 Dark Caster classes

< Message edited by Beshin Adin -- 5/15/2019 13:43:57 >
AQ AQW  Post #: 41
5/15/2019 14:45:46   
Veya
Member

quote:

1v1 Legion PVP trophy


It's been confirmed quite a while ago that the class would have no daily component for its obtain method, so I think we can quite safely rule out 1v1 Trophies, but everything else is on the table, including stuff like Obsidian Rocks and Solidified Souls, which currently are barely used for anything.
AQW  Post #: 42
5/15/2019 17:25:24   
Edme MacHeath
Member

This class dirts both VHL and LC
I would hardly call it a VHL equivalent.


< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 5/15/2019 17:32:43 >
AQ  Post #: 43
5/15/2019 18:58:59   
you stop
Member

Nerf hammer incoming lads
AQW  Post #: 44
5/15/2019 23:33:04   
Edme MacHeath
Member

I guess this is going to be an a VHL equivalent but it feels like itís actually a SSoT equivalent with a sprinkle of LC and VHL, in the sense that itís tanky like VHL and stacks like LC(much faster tho) and just does everything like SSoT (Although SSoT is a calendar class so there is some unfair comparisons)

I actually felt like I had a reason to use SSoT or EC, SC, Shaman and VHL for DPS/Soloing, Support, FRming and tanking
But now I feel like I will only need to use SSoT or EC, SC, and LR
Especially since the only strong enough to justify LR or VHL over SSoT will just have enough HP to benefit
I think this actually does replace VHL completely for anyone who owns one of the last three calendar classes

So while certainly not the best damage ingame, I think itís longterm damage and survival make it the better choice for tough bosses

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 5/16/2019 0:01:47 >
AQ  Post #: 45
5/16/2019 8:49:26   
you stop
Member

To be really honest with you I honestly think you should just use SSoT/EC + LR at this point. Everyone has SC so you might as well drop that idea and just go for another support. Unless you're part of the Inf Titan hype train, where it stacks.

LR just does everything you want a class to do. It is a great support to boot, adding both tankiness (dodge) and damage to the team. It honestly doesn't need a party heal nor a haste buff unlike most that I've seen in twitter as suggestions. The 30% dodge buff isn't something that a lot of classes can brag about. 30% is HUGE

The only real drawback is for people who are lazy to change enhancements from Luck to Wiz but honestly I do think it's worth it. Also, this class can practically just be a 1 man army, which helps those who are limited with bagslots. I mean VHL and SSoT can already run for a 1 man army class but they both do not have the ability to hit 3 targets at once with all their damaging skills. It's not a drawback, really, but it's some sort of convenience I guess. That, and as you said, this class plainly trashes VHL and LC for that matter.
AQW  Post #: 46
5/16/2019 8:59:42   
Veya
Member

The lack of a Haste buff also gives LR stupid amount of potential, using helm & cape Luck+weap & class Wiz(what Fox, one of the newer class testers, has advised people to use with the class), you get 20.46% Haste, which is *just enough* for a SC to come in and boost it to max Haste, to a point that feels like it is like this by design...

And regarding enhancements, if we follow Fox's suggestion, it's not too bad, since you'd only have to change your weapon, and most big boost weapons have at least two versions with said boosts, so it is easy to swap around.

< Message edited by Veya -- 5/16/2019 9:00:38 >
AQW  Post #: 47
5/16/2019 12:42:50   
you stop
Member

Does that actually increase DPS though

Last I checked the class runs full Wizard, which already brings it above 20% haste. Adding Luck seems detrimental seeing as it lowers DoT and Damage overall.

< Message edited by you stop -- 5/16/2019 12:45:07 >
AQW  Post #: 48
5/16/2019 13:03:27   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

Enhancements depend on your strategy. A defensive LR favors END and WIS
AQ AQW  Post #: 49
5/16/2019 13:26:58   
Veya
Member

I was actually running tests to compare the difference in damage with different enhancements, I had started them yesterday but got bored and stopped, I only got around finishing them today... anyway...

Legion Revenant damage tests, all done with static weapons, crits in parenthesis, max DoT value with full stacks of Nox:

Full level 90 Wiz, no Awe

quote:

Max DoT: 2,154

Max HoT: 1,221

No buffs

AA: 148(436) primary, 75(219) secondary.

A1: 930 primary, 467 secondary (always crits).

A2: 371(1094).

A4: 1,113(3,278) primary, 559(1,648) secondary.

Depravade Empowerment buffs:

AA: 192(624) primary, 98(313) secondary.

A1: 1,332 primary, 671 secondary (always crits).

A2: 482(1,567).

A4: 1447(4,695) primary, 727(2,360) secondary.

Anathema buffs:

AA: 148(436) primary, 75(219) secondary.

A1: 1,177 primary, 591 secondary (always crits).

A2: 469(1,385).

A4: 1,408(4,149) primary, 708(2,085) secondary.


Level 90 Wiz weap&class, level 90 Luck cape&helm, no Awe:

quote:

Max DoT: 1,933

Max HoT: 1,065

No buffs:

AA: 137(470) primary, 69(235) secondary.

A1: 933 primary, 468 secondary (always crits).

A2: 319(1098).

A4: 956(3,292) primary, 478(1,646) secondary.

Depravade Empowerment buffs:

AA: 178(664) primary, 90(333) secondary.

A1: 1,320 primary, 660 secondary (always crits).

A2: 414(1,553).

A4: 1,243(4,653) primary, 622(2,327) secondary.

Anathema buffs:

AA: 137(470) primary, 69(235) secondary.

A1: 1,200 primary, 601 secondary (always crits).

A2: 410(1,412).

A4: 1,229(4,232) primary, 615(2,116) secondary.


The general thing seem to be a very marginally higher crit damage with 2 Wiz 2 Luck, but lower HoT/DoT, while pointing out that the class is so tough that the lower HoT is very irrelevant, I still have to do test runs to see if the marginally higher crit damage is enough to make up for the lower DoT and surpass it, I just been... real lazy about this...

< Message edited by Veya -- 5/16/2019 13:28:42 >
AQW  Post #: 50
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