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RE: =AQW= Design Notes May 10th, 2019: Legion Revenant Member-only Class Test + Tonight: A Game of Groans

 
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5/16/2019 14:56:17   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

Don;t forget that Wizaard increases INT, END, and LUK
Healer increases INT,, WIS, and END
Theif increases DEX and END

All for one, or mix it up
AQ AQW  Post #: 51
5/16/2019 18:32:27   
Veya
Member

Yeah... I got around testing it... and I have no idea where Fox got the 2 Luk 2 Wiz idea from.

As a side note, for those tests, I sold my LR and bought it back, then only ranked it to 9, this is because for the purpose of those tests, Nox would only induce unecessary variance, since damage scales linearly with it, also those are relatively small sample sizes because I ended up testing too many different conditions and I am not made of time.

Anyway... for all of those, the target was Blood Titan(196,456 HP)

quote:

No boost full Wiz

01:57.34
02:05.47
01:56.37
02:00.63
01:54.70

Avrg: 01:58.90

No boost 2 Wiz 2 Luk

02:01.44
02:05.13
02:06.56
02:04.89
02:06.39

Avrg: 02:04.88


While this sample is small, mixed enhancements led to consistently worse times on average, so then I decided to test with an item boost, since direct damage scales with boosts while DoTs don't, using SDKA to have a 50% boost(quite close to NSoD) while allowing me to maintain my fixed damage range, and...

quote:

50% boost full Wiz

01:23.76
01:30.68
01:32.03
01:25.47
01:25.25

Avrg: 01:27.44

50% boost 2 Wiz 2 Luk

01:22.69
01:31.26
01:27.88
01:33.97
01:28.51

Avrg: 01:28.86


In those tests they are *about* the same, I imagine that adding a SC to boost your crit rate would favor the mixed enhancement, and naturally adding using a higher boost(such as using BLoD against an undead enemy) would skewer things in favor of mixed even further.

< Message edited by Veya -- 5/16/2019 18:33:45 >
AQW  Post #: 52
5/17/2019 4:16:42   
you stop
Member

Boosts scaling in favour of luck is already a known factor.

It was already pointed out by another user named Loftyz, but this time using a Luck boosting pot. They pointed out that due to absurdly high multipliers, damage always favours luck.

In this case, damage boosts just add a higher base, with luck making it higher.

All in all if Fox argues 2 Wiz 2 Luck to be the best then I say go all in Full Luck and just slap as much boosts as possible.
AQW  Post #: 53
5/17/2019 9:53:53   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

Personally, i'd favor DEX for high haste and crit chance
AQ AQW  Post #: 54
5/17/2019 9:59:22   
zanathos
Member

...DEX doesn't increase haste nor crit chance on caster classes, that's INT(haste) and WIS(crit)
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 55
5/17/2019 10:12:04   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

Oh? Healer enh, then
AQ AQW  Post #: 56
5/17/2019 13:21:20   
Edme MacHeath
Member

Healer doesnít maximize damage, haste or crit chance either. It focuses too much on endurance. You wonít find a good balance of stats or damage with healer, unless you specifically want to focus only on health points.
I doubt youíd want that for legion revanent as it has an absurd amount of tankiness

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 5/17/2019 13:22:26 >
AQ  Post #: 57
5/17/2019 16:19:03   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

You can't only focus on damage. There's speed, crit chance, survivability.........A class's value isn't summed up in PvP.
AQ AQW  Post #: 58
5/17/2019 17:53:01   
Veya
Member

Beshin, when people say "damage", they already take speed and crit chance in account, because they mean "overall damage", and survivability is irrelevant as long as it above "Can I survive how hard this boss hits", and we already know that LR can solo up to Archfiend DragonLord with full Wiz, 99% of the game is bellow that level so survivability is irrelevant in most situations

...talking about Healer enhancement memes though...

Guys, wanna hear a joke? Legion Revenant is a perfectly balanced class and it needs no nerfs whatsoever!

This is a very RNG-reliant solo though, since LLL can only really hit you when you are at full HP, if you get hit twice in a row, you are dead, and this is the type of situation where that hefty 30% Dodge from Depraved Empowerment comes into play... it is still *possible* though, which is a lot more than we can say about VHL vs LLL, and that is the main thing I was gunning for here.
AQW  Post #: 59
5/17/2019 17:59:00   
Hardcastle McCormick
Member

@beshin
That WOULD be the case if crit modifiers werenít so high in this game that they completely drown out any other potential stat gains. Basically any enhancement that doesnít offer luck presents such a dramatic decrease in damage and such a pathetic increase in stats compared to Luck-based enhancements(which is Wizard and Lucky).

It really has nothing to do with pvp. Healer enh wonít give you anywhere close to enough extra HP to make up for the reduction in other stats. It also doesnít help that Wizard offers more INT, and therefore more haste for casters than the alternatives. The only potential exception is the evasion boost you get from Thief enh, but once again it comes at the cost of MUCH lower overall damage.

The Luck stat is so imbalanced that AE are attempting to nerf it in the server rework, to make a variety of enhancements actually viable.
AQW  Post #: 60
5/17/2019 18:10:00   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

Are you all ignoring that Healer gives you WIS, and Wizaard does not?
AQ AQW  Post #: 61
5/17/2019 18:27:04   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


Healer actually gives less WIS than Wizard does and instead takes the stats that makes Wizard good and pumps it all into END, a currently (practically) useless stat in the late game meta. Although I think on the PTR servers, some of the stats were swapped around, giving Healer a fair bit more WIS than Wizard.
You are getting it confused with Spellbreaker perhaps, which gives a little less INT and a little less Luck, but more END and WIS, kind of a middle ground between Healer and Wizard.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 5/17/2019 18:29:25 >
AQW  Post #: 62
5/17/2019 18:59:44   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

Arcana the Mage Trainer says Wizard enhances INT, END and LUK
Healer enhances INT, END and WIS
AQ AQW  Post #: 63
5/17/2019 21:00:40   
you stop
Member

Yes but I think you're forgetting a few things here: raw stats do not matter if Luck simply just outdamages every bit of rawstat you add. Hence why you don't see people run Fighter on things like Legion Doomknight. Or why you don't see Healer/SpellBreaker on Lightcaster. Wizard is simply better because it has the best amount of Luck while not compromising raw stats too much. There's no physical enh that has Luck in it. If Fighter had Luck then I think we'll see a meta shift in enhancements but as far as that goes, it does not.

Same goes for Healer enh. It does not have Luck, which then makes Wizard objectively better.

This, and metakirby already proved that Healer gives less stats than Wizard apart from Endurance, which isn't something you exactly need on Legion Revenant seeing as it's the Tankiest class in game

quote:

You can't only focus on damage. There's speed, crit chance, survivability
Speed: Wiz has faster kill times than Healer.
Crit Chance: Wiz's damage outdoes a few extra % crit chance on other enh
Survivability: Not an issue

< Message edited by you stop -- 5/17/2019 21:03:57 >
AQW  Post #: 64
5/17/2019 22:04:32   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

Healer gives almost 3x the WIS Luck does
AQ AQW  Post #: 65
5/17/2019 22:51:34   
Edme MacHeath
Member

Yes but wizard gives the highest INT and LUK out of all the caster enhancements and also gives a fair amount of wisdom
Crit Chance from wisdom is nice and all but there is one thing more important than crit chance itself and thatís crit modifiers as stated above. Health amount is actually always irrelevant to be honest, how much HP you have really doesnít do much to actually affect how tanky or how good at survival a class is.

Itís much better to have good Defensive and Healing capabilities. Perhaps in a fringe case having an absurdly high amount of HP can help you eat high damage bosses and prevent you from being one shorted but endurance buffs are rare anyways and this can easily be achieved with more defense and/or healing aswell, EI: taking less damage instead of having more health. Legion Revanent is so far up the scale that itís the 2nd tankiest class in the game behind GT and that might even be cheating the definition of tanking to include GT.

Against a total of like 2-3 bosses in the entire game that you canít survive against, thereís absolutely no point of using healer, and they wouldnít even make it so that youíd live against those bosses anyways. The extra HP just isnít valuable enough to actually make it solo more things.


Caster classes have pretty poor evasion anyways and even in fringe cases like abyssal angel, youíre not really gonna focus on maximizing dodge anyways. Iíd actually go as far as saying that even a lot of dodge or thief based classes donít even have enough dodge to warrant getting an extra few percent of evasion over dealing literally several times more damage (Rogue canít even rely on dodges to survive against a stronger boss and it literally deals over twice as much damage with luck than thief!)

If after all that you still want to use healer then I guess thatís your choice but objectively it is not a optimal choice

The same goes for Spellbreaker. Aside from being worse than wizard and honestly even Lucky too.
It doesnít give as much INT or Luck as Wizard. Damage and a balanced spread of stats is more important than buffing supportive stats.
Even without going into specifics as others have done.
Wisdom is a SECONDARY stat. It just doesnít have the same value as INT or LUK which directly affect damage.

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 5/17/2019 22:58:24 >
AQ  Post #: 66
5/18/2019 18:15:35   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

Now, I'm not saying to ix Wizard enh totally, just that LR can have more tactics than full Wizard
AQ AQW  Post #: 67
5/18/2019 18:29:08   
Veya
Member

The entire point everyone has been trying to get across is that LR is so overpowering that anything other than focusing fully on damage is not needed, the only target in the game that using Healer enhancements over Wiz would be a benefit is Legion Lich Lord(the next up in the list, Warlord Icewing, hits hard enough to one-shot LR even with Healer enh), and even then it is a very RNG kill.
AQW  Post #: 68
5/18/2019 18:43:35   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

What if you want a good class, not an OP class?
AQ AQW  Post #: 69
5/18/2019 19:01:30   
ChaosRipjaw
How We Roll Winner
Jun15


Well in that case feel free to use Healer Enhancements or whatever I guess. Though the resulting discrepancy in performance is far from the difference between "good" and "OP" and rather "abysmal" and "OP".
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 70
5/18/2019 19:01:51   
you stop
Member

Then the options span across the classes of AQW. Even then, they would all mostly run either full Wiz or full Luck. Only a few exceptions, like Deathknight, exist.

There really is no other tactic. The other tactics you speak of are detrimental to the end result, being which tactic can kill the boss the fastest?

edit: Good timing, i practically said what @above did

For the most part, if you really want to use a secondary stat raising enh, it would be better to simply use a support class, which also happens to run wiz or luck most of the time. The stats they raise are mostly damage related, though, which scale with Intellect and Luck. Then if survivability is an issue, classes with damage debuffs or damage reduction, along with heals/HoTs exist. At this point in the game, all other strategies regarding enhancements are just abysmal if it's not Wiz or Luck, to which exeptions exist of course.

But as many stated, if you want to use Healer, go for it. It's just that using Healer is the same as using Thief on LR. They're both simply abysmal compared to Wizard, even to Luck

< Message edited by you stop -- 5/18/2019 19:09:16 >
AQW  Post #: 71
5/18/2019 19:30:55   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

Theen, I'll take a chance: 2 Healer, 1 Wizard, 1 Luck. I'll tell you how it fares.
AQ AQW  Post #: 72
5/18/2019 20:34:49   
you stop
Member

As for that, I might share my experience that usually going mixed enhancements just produces a mediocre result of going Full of the best one.

For LR specifically, I don't think adding Luck will overtake Wiz any time soon, even with all given buffs. Adding Luck just reduces its damage over all, and going Full Luck is by far the worse option between Luck and Wiz.

But try not to tell me "how it fares" without testing Full Wiz first. Try to measure timers and all that stuff. I'd love to be proven wrong if anything, it's tiring to just use Full Wiz/Luck nowadays
AQW  Post #: 73
5/19/2019 9:16:40   
zanathos
Member

been testing LR in group pvp, and man is it scary. ran through the other teams brawlers and captain solo in under 70 seconds. Absolutely love this class
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 74
5/22/2019 8:11:36   
you stop
Member

Anyone got measurements on this class? Like how well it performs in terms of farming? The last measurements I had was only in /tod and /tod4, pre bug fixes. It was better than Shaman in the latter map and worse in the former map
AQW  Post #: 75
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