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Let's talk about botting/juggernaut/NPCs and Legendary Ranks

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6/10/2019 21:02:10   
.Lord Ginger.

You're a new kiddo to AE games and you see this game called EpicDuel, you join it and want to have some fun. You hit some rocks, you ask some people around for tips, you maybe get some. You get to around 38, the struggle happens. You ask people what to do, what do they say?

Juggernaut or NPC they say. You're like, okay, sure, until I get to 40. You grind out these boring battles to get to 40. Yes, I finally made it.

You try a 1v1 battle, rank 30. You get crushed.

Okay, maybe bad luck, let's try another. Some rank 57 smears you.

Alright, how about another. Some rank 90 beats you to a pulp and calls you 'noob'.

What do you do from here? Keep taking losses because let's be real here, at low ranks- higher legendary ranks are just going to beat you and that's that.

You ask people what to do as low rank, they say- NPC or Jugg.

You hear people talking about botting and how people have these high ranks with tons of juggernaut wins. What do you do now?

You're probably thinking, alright- if I want to 1v1 and not get creamed I have to bot, or be extremely bored (or quit). But let's say you don't want to quit.

You start botting, you start gaining ranks and then you're there at the high rank many weeks later. Did you grind to get there? (sure?)

What did you get out of that? Well, you learned how to bot in order to be able to beat good players. (Take out the varium cores and whatnot).

This does happen, but more often than not people slow down their 1v1s because of losses, or the quit. Juggernaut is boring, you don't want to beat up NPCs, you want real people.

What should we do as a community in this situation?

I know we talk about ranks staying and that people would quit, but how many people do you think would? Do you think the people who jugg constantly and have 700000 ranks care? They don't really 1v1, and they seem to do it for fun, have their juggernaut faction, or they make oodles of credits and they're okay with that.

You still have people who earned their ranks a long time ago grinding it out or whatever, but how many of those people are there left? Do you think people with ranks would quit because now they're even? I mean maybe, but those dedicated probably won't. They're not really enhancements because you didn't pay varium. (Maybe for slots, but have you seen gifting, I doubt people pay varium for that stuff).

I am a high rank and love having my advantage sure, but is this really how it should go?

It is now 3x easier to hit level 40, but ever rank is a whopping 7500 experience points, that's 312.5 jugg wins or 156.25 on a power weekend, and that's a lot of time.

You either have to grind, or die. If you want to play the game casually, you already better be up there in ranks, or learn to love juggernaut, because I know that 1v1 will be painful.

Long story short:

Ranks? Should they actually go away? I mean yeah they should, then we can also take away underdog (geez, it's so frustrating when opponents get a buff for being weaker, what sense does that make? Levels sure, maybe someone has been playing longer. Ranks? It's weird how it is because ranks aren't really levels).

Anyone who wants to return to the game, or makes a new account will suffer and probably quit. Sure, we're retaining the old playerbase, but would removing ranks really make that many people quit? I highly doubt it... maybe some angry people, but those who really have skill can win even if ranks are taken away. This can make battles more challenging, which could be good.

(Also couple this with taking away losses and it could be great)

< Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 6/10/2019 21:07:13 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
6/11/2019 0:48:17   

I think what you're saying is true. At this point, I wouldn't mind that much if the PvP aspect of ranks was removed even though I'm high rank, too.

The main problem with ranks is that they require way too much effort relative to how much they benefit you. With the amount of experience points it takes to get to rank 80, you could make 17 Rank 1 level 40s. Competitive people will still be willing to grind for them one way or another, but the vast majority of players are casual players and this kills the game for them. Ranks have been around for several years now and as more time passes, the problem will become worse: the player base will get increasingly polarized as a result of this "barrier", with most of the players at a very low rank, a big chunk at a very high rank, and relatively few people filling the middle ranks. It's already happening, and it's a vicious cycle because the more polarized it gets, the more likely you're going to get matchups with a rank 10 fighting a rank 100, which discourages the low rank casuals even more.

This wouldn't be as bad if ranks weren't that necessary to compete, but ever since they were buffed again and Underdog was nerfed, that's been the case. Obviously, buffing Underdog is a bad idea and nerfing ranks is also a bad idea because that'd just make it even more ridiculous in terms of the effort invested (experience points) to benefit ratio.

A lot of people, myself included, have insisted in the past that getting rid of ranks is sort of out of the question, but looking long term, I'd have to admit it'd probably be better for the game to not have them. I guess, a year or two back, being high rank still had some of the allure and prestige that it had when ranks first came out, which is why the backlash might've been worse if you took them away then, but it's dying away fast and the reality is sinking in that the system does mess the game up in a bunch of ways.

< Message edited by NDB -- 6/11/2019 1:19:41 >
Epic  Post #: 2
6/11/2019 12:56:29   

With such low amounts of players they would have to do something extreme if they want to even have a hope of retaining any new players. I get the feeling some people already start giving up at levels 24-28.
Here's one extreme idea: remove ranks (award people achievement, similar as they did with old enchantments), get rid of the levels, give everyone the amount of stats and skill points a level 30 would have.
Epic  Post #: 3
6/11/2019 18:25:05   

Yeah, there's nothing worse than leaving high ranks with a smidge of hp and being called a noob for losing. Ranks stop new players from joining in and continuing to play. It's bad for balance, bad for player retention and only benefits the small hardcore group of grinders. There should be an option to at least fight without ranks; I bet you'd see much more traffic in a fairer PvP mode.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 4
6/11/2019 23:26:54   

>Separate rank into a different game mode
>Ban promotional items in 1 vs. 1 rank
>Pirate bot should only hit one enemy
>Color blast should not stun but deal even more damage 110% should suffice
>Kartherax's Darkspawn effect should only last 1 turn
>player should be able to quit anytime because seeing themselves loose isn't something good. it wastes allot of time and we need fast PVP. Change server takes allot of time just to go back to the server
hat should make things fair a bit :P

< Message edited by chusen -- 6/11/2019 23:31:03 >
Post #: 5
6/12/2019 1:07:04   

Basically what the OP wrote. I was far better off during the Varium days than in the current meta. Almost 39 but still 38 (back from when it was cap) Doesn't matter what build I use, fighting Rank 50++ is simply not winnable and as someone who prefers 1v1 over 2v2 the game isn't worth playing anymore.

I would suggest changing the credit distribution to simply rewarding the same credits regardless of losing/winning so losing wouldn't be a complete waste of time.

< Message edited by ValkyrieXIV -- 6/12/2019 1:08:09 >
Post #: 6
7/12/2019 16:30:19   

Yes, ranks, jugg, and botting are terrible. As an old player who only enjoys 1v1, I don't see the appeal in spending months grinding for ranks to even be able to start 1v1. Thus, I basically have no way to play epicduel even though I want to.

In fact, I recently started playing epicduel purely for aesthetic purposes, so I was excited to get the new Cyber spartan armor that's been teased for weeks. Turns out, I have to be rank 15 to get it. I calculated it'll take me 2,500 jugg wins on power hour before I can get it. And I don't even jugg. So essentially I'll never get it since I don't 1v1 enough, since it's not fair.

So yes, casual players are suffering the most.
AQ  Post #: 7
7/15/2019 14:03:22   

I am a lvl 40 mercenary. I've been lvl 40 for like 5 if not 6 years. I don't play everyday and a lot. I have just been doing 2vs2s since I am mainly a 2vs2 player.

Juggernaut is boring, you fight bots to win rewards and worst of all, win everytime. There is no challenge nor fun because its bots. A total boredom in a few words. Despite 2vs2ing for a few years I am still at rank 14. This already makes me wondering if everybody else got their 100+ ranks legit. I know this is a very presumptious statement but at least 50% of the current juggernaut players, if not more, use an autoclicker bot to fight for them. I can tell because I have a lvl 25+ alternate character and everytime I fight someone who is jugging, they barely talk at all. F.e I make random jokes, insult them or do something random and they don't even respond. Some of them are legit but it feels like I am playing with bots 90% of the time

Since I have never changed my class for 8 years, that makes me quite experienced and easily allows me to go toe to toe with rank 100s +. I don't even look at their rank because it doesn't matter, I just don't feel any kind of disadvantage. Though it sucks to be a level 38-39 or 40 under rank 5 and go up against those 'farmers'. The game is boring enough the way it is. Nobody feels motivated to continue playing, I myself am not playing a lot like i already stated

I will create another thread in this section so check it out

< Message edited by Warmaker04 -- 7/15/2019 14:04:19 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
7/16/2019 10:53:00   

it's actually unplayable, i cant even finish up missions which asks for 1v1, i always go against +50 lvls, and with the legendary upgrades, this makes the game even more perfect
unplayable game actually
Post #: 9
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