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Simple idea to improve boss fights

 
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6/17/2019 13:15:25   
NDB
Member

Over the week I was sort of disappointed at how easy legendary bosses have become. There are hard bosses like Dage, Titan, NW, nd Endless M4tr1x, and then there are the easy ones like Shoggoth, Tuna, Deuce, Bido, etc.. In fact, there's actually a nice spectrum from easy to hard so that no matter what rank level 40 you are, you should be able to beat some of them. At least a few should be reserved for end game, i.e., max rank with the best cores, but that's not case anymore since the hardest bosses are beatable without any ranks or very few (<20).

But, I got over it. I realized inflation is bound to happen. Things like permanent stat boost cores, critical heal on primary, +45 cores, buffing legendary ranks again, bringing back passives, and buffing certain skills in general (most recently, heal), etc., etc.. It's a game after all. When bosses like the original M4tr1x came out, she was hard as heck. Eventually it got to the point where she could be beat well before level 40. And allllll the way back before Omega things like Armor Hazard and non-legendary forms of Titan and NW were legitimate challenges. I thought things should be more stable now since the level cap hasn't risen in years, but with all the balance changes and new cores, things only tend to get easier and easier. NW increased the ratings on Dage and Titan to 4,000 and made Endless M4tr1x 4,000 as well because they were supposed to be extreme challenges, but they definitely aren't anymore.

Everything would be fine if eventually an even harder boss was released to match the inflation of the player's power. I'm thinking Legendary Charfade is imminent since he's made a legendary boss for every artist that has contributed something recently, so that could be a way. But that's not a stable long term solution, especially since every time inflation happens, people who beat the boss the first time around when it was hard are still going to feel a bit cheated.

Suggestion is here if you don't want to read it all --> Therefore, I think it would be a cool idea if we could have a dungeon mode for every boss. Most PvE games have something like this. A mode with infinite levels. Let's say I beat Legendary Titan for the first time. That'd be the first level. In the next level he'll have, say, a 2% boost in all his stats. If I beat him again, it'll be level 3 and he'll have a 4% increase in stats, and so on. Instead of showing how many times you beat a certain boss on the achievement, it can say what level you've reached for that boss and the ratings can increase by like 200 points each time. Very simple and it'd be fun. There could even be a leaderboard of each NPC at that NPC. I've always been a fan of tiered achievements since they take minimal effort to implement yet are so effective. Just think if we didn't have tiered war achievements or tiered arcade or whatever: no one would want to play those things.

Thoughts?

< Message edited by NDB -- 6/17/2019 14:25:24 >
Epic  Post #: 1
6/18/2019 16:10:00   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

That's an interesting thought, I kind of like the idea, but idk how many people would do it.

Many people just beg for a build, beat the boss and claim their achievement, but for those dedicated boss fighters then yeah, It'd be a neat feature. Would also give legit rating points instead of all these gifting paying ones
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
6/19/2019 1:56:47   
leo07123
Member

Yeah it's good but then what about boss like Endless M4tr1x which drop Shards. Then all kinds of drops has to be removed, otherwise it will make people rich irrespective of Gifting event and this cheevo idea will not work because this will overrate that person's personal ratings. So it will be like promoting PvE instead of PvP.

I support that increase in ability of a character to beat that particular NPC boss but have to think about drops and rating on the other side.
Epic  Post #: 3
6/19/2019 2:04:45   
NDB
Member

@leo
I can't comprehend what you mean by the shards.

On the contrary, I think these would be the most legitimate source of ratings in the game besides maybe the PvP daily champs. If you can think of something else, tell me. Credits sink badges, arcade achievements, mission achievements, regular and seasonal badges, legacy achievements, rarity, all of the paid achievements can all be gotten without any actual skill or that much dedication to the game. War achievements are pretty legit but the best way to get them is through jugg grind which is way less legit than boss fights.

It'd be encouraging PvE, yeah, but so would releasing a few brand new bosses. I don't see the problem there. Things like Jugg are the actual problem with PvE not boss fights.

< Message edited by NDB -- 6/19/2019 2:14:54 >
Epic  Post #: 4
6/19/2019 3:05:35   
Foulman
Member

@NDB

He's talking about Omega Shards, which sell for 10k credits and drop after every win. If you have 3 hours to waste, then it's a nice credit farm, but it doesn't give any experience.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 5
6/19/2019 7:17:42   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

They drop no matter what he suggests? The only bad thing would be making it harder to get the shards, but honestly people are just going to eat them in December.

Shards shouldn’t have anything to do with this suggestion, it makes no sense.

I do think it would be legit rating points, and I’m fine with that.

Encouraged more to PvE than PvP? Juggrnaut...?

< Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 6/19/2019 7:23:55 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
6/19/2019 8:55:11   
leo07123
Member

@NDB Omega Wolf Shard that cost 12500

So you mean that daily achievements aint Legit? Or mission achievements where you have to do 500 battles? You can make game full NPC oriented and this will lead to only few players. Epic Duel is meant for promoting PvP instead of PvE. It might be cool for some people doing PvE and it's okay but asking advantages out of them will sound rubbish tbh. You're say I want to beat X Boss and as I beat him N number of times I get N% of relaxation and N amount of Rating. This is more advantages and those who literally ear Achievement dragging their entire life playing ED will make no sense. I never said giving battle relaxation will be bad but I totally oppose Achievement section. That will be exploitative.

@Lord Ginger
It's good that you encourage NPC but for battle NPC you don't need any specific skills. 60k NPC wins can be easily scored in just single day if I want to for this people can you different mean like botting. Moreover making Solo, Team wins even 1k in a week is a difficult task. So I totally DISAGREE with RATING stuff only.

I rest my case: Buff is fine but RATING increasing totally OPPOSED.
Epic  Post #: 7
6/19/2019 11:26:57   
NDB
Member

quote:

Omega Wolf Shard that cost 12500

I know what they are. Sheesh, I was the first player in the game to beat Endless M4tr1x before and after the drop was added and I personally edited the Wiki page about it. What I want to know is what you meant would change about it. You said some stuff that I couldn't really understand. As far as I'm concerned, nothing needs to happen with any drops. They can stay the way they are. If you want to farm, all you have to do is not do this mode. And if it matters that much, there can be an option to re-do any level you've already beat.

quote:

So you mean that daily achievements aint Legit? Or mission achievements where you have to do 500 battles? You can make game full NPC oriented and this will lead to only few players. Epic Duel is meant for promoting PvP instead of PvE. It might be cool for some people doing PvE and it's okay but asking advantages out of them will sound rubbish tbh. You're say I want to beat X Boss and as I beat him N number of times I get N% of relaxation and N amount of Rating. This is more advantages and those who literally ear Achievement dragging their entire life playing ED will make no sense. I never said giving battle relaxation will be bad but I totally oppose Achievement section. That will be exploitative.

I've already responded to this:
quote:

On the contrary, I think these would be the most legitimate source of ratings in the game besides maybe the PvP daily champs. If you can think of something else, tell me. Credits sink badges, arcade achievements, mission achievements, regular and seasonal badges, legacy achievements, rarity, all of the paid achievements can all be gotten without any actual skill or that much dedication to the game. War achievements are pretty legit but the best way to get them is through jugg grind which is way less legit than boss fights.

It'd be encouraging PvE, yeah, but so would releasing a few brand new bosses. I don't see the problem there. Things like Jugg are the actual problem with PvE not boss fights.

I don't consider it exploitative at all. That makes no sense given all the other achievements out there that would be way easier to get and give way more ratings. Missions that do 500 battles take a while but don't require any skill. And these mission chains all require you to beat NPCs too, like the ones with those eggs.

By the way, what is "battle relaxation"?

quote:

It's good that you encourage NPC but for battle NPC you don't need any specific skills. 60k NPC wins can be easily scored in just single day if I want to for this people can you different mean like botting. Moreover making Solo, Team wins even 1k in a week is a difficult task. So I totally DISAGREE with RATING stuff only.

This is ratings for beating harder and harder bosses not ratings for regular NPC farming. The two are on the opposite side of the spectrum in terms of skill required. You're getting it all mixed up.
Epic  Post #: 8
6/20/2019 13:09:30   
leo07123
Member

quote:

I don't consider it exploitative at all. That makes no sense given all the other achievements out there that would be way easier to get and give way more ratings. Missions that do 500 battles take a while but don't require any skill. And these mission chains all require you to beat NPCs too, like the ones with those eggs.

Okay so really mean battle PvP is technically easier then PvE. I appreciate that feedback, and I feel of not exaggerating this further because if NPCing is tougher then ED should stop PvP and start promoting NPC battles.
Epic  Post #: 9
6/21/2019 3:43:50   
Foulman
Member

^Conflating NPC farming with boss battles isn't going to get you anywhere
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 10
6/21/2019 6:45:45   
  TankMage

ArchKnight EpicDuel


You'd be happy to hear that I bounced around an idea with a very similar premise not overly long ago so am a big fan of the suggestion. An ever improving boss to see just how far people would push with a evolving achievement tickles my fancy too. Will try and sneak it onto the idea board but won't make any promises yet.
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
6/21/2019 12:10:18   
leo07123
Member

@foulman
True it will never gonna end anywhere

@TankMage
Exactly Evolving Achievement especially for NPC battles I wonder eventually laugh and too fancy too. It will corrupt the current rating ratios. If it is implemented then people will try to NPC instead of getting Ultra Rare Cheevos. If this is implemented then I have to think and imagine about my worthiness of my 20 Ultra Rare Achievements.

That is why I totally DISAGREE with Rating Stuff otherwise, buffing character on every battle is good to farm NPC but rating is something worthless.
Epic  Post #: 12
6/21/2019 12:17:40   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

Rating points hardly mean anything anymore since most people get credits during gifting and drop them in achievements. I do not see you in the top 20 player rating board with your 20 Ultra Rare Achievements.

And what ultra rare achievements will people skip out on? People want to collect like everything, so they aren't going to be skipping anything.

< Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 6/21/2019 12:37:20 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
6/21/2019 15:10:32   
NDB
Member

@TankMage
That's awesome. Much appreciated. It would be cool even if there was just one new boss that had this feature.

@leo
There's pretty much a 0% chance that people will quit getting Ultra Rares because of this. From the way I see it most people work for the easier achievements first before they tackle the challenging stuff so this would just be an endgame feature anyway.

When Foulman said you were conflating NPCs and bosses he was critcizing the fact that you keep treating bosses as if they're regular NPCs, not agreeing with you in any way.

Epic  Post #: 14
6/21/2019 16:48:50   
  TankMage

ArchKnight EpicDuel


quote:

@TankMage
Exactly Evolving Achievement especially for NPC battles I wonder eventually laugh and too fancy too. It will corrupt the current rating ratios. If it is implemented then people will try to NPC instead of getting Ultra Rare Cheevos. If this is implemented then I have to think and imagine about my worthiness of my 20 Ultra Rare Achievements.


The idea would be that even though there is no "cap" to the rating points of the evolving achievement, eventually the boss fight becomes so difficult for some that they cannot continue anymore and therefore creates that cap. It wouldn't be an endless farming of rating points and we would scale it appropriately of course.
AQ Epic  Post #: 15
6/21/2019 17:54:14   
Mother1
Member

Here is another way on top of this we can improve these fights. Add save states to them. It is already frustrating enough to lose if the game disconnects you via internet messing up or just recently with me an update. Imagine how much worse it would be if you are doing these fights and you get disconnected during a run would have been your success otherwise.
Epic  Post #: 16
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