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Why does AQ ignore rogues?

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8/12/2019 1:32:53   
Mr. Popo

My thread got deleted, luckily I had it saved as a profile somewhere else, though I'm not sure if this is missing anything or if the format is a little wonky. If you notice anything off, please be sure to let me know, and please comment to keep this thread alive! Rouges don't get any love in this game!

Name: Shinkuu Ha (misc)

Boosts blocking against Ranged attacks and reducing incoming Ranged damage. The "incoming Ranged damage" thing only defends against one element per turn (the first one you get hit by). Also boosts LUK and DEX.

Deals Harm damage to the monster whenever you dodge a ranged attack (If this mechanic is not possible, then deal harm damage after dodging any attack like the Assassin class skill 10: Stalwart Solitude; of course this will be as useful as using the Horo-Show Void Vindicator as a means to deal harm damage by blocking/dodging outside of ranged damage since one wouldn't get the boost in Ranged defense needed to effectively dodge). The damage is based on the monster's current SP,

You deal damage equal to some math equation that should be based off of the force behind the opponent's attack which is why I think it should be based off of SP or something.

Level 150 (with weaker versions)
PowerLvl 153

Ranged% 55

Ranged (defense) 10

DEX 48
LUK 40

SP 100

Your opponent better aim well! If they miss, they might lose an eye!

The name or description of the item isn't that important, I could come up with several other things that would represent the same thing. What is important is the effects of the misc.

So this is my take on an Ultimate Dragon Scythe of Elements like weapon with inspiration from Mr. Uber's:

My short suggestion on this is to have most daggers/knives (that aren't thrown) have the same effect as the Hunting horn, where as they may attack with melee, however their stat bonus is based off of DEX instead of STR. This will also give daggers/knives some uniqueness and versatility instead of just being statistically weaker but slightly (but still not worth it) more accurate swords.

So after about a week of seeking help on trying to find the proper numbers and formulas to properly annotate what I'm trying to convey, I found that the math was too confusing and too difficult so I'm going to do a bit of numbers and a bit of concept explanation.
The main point behind this weapon is that it does crazy strong lucky strike damage. To compensate, it has VERY low damage otherwise; keep in mind, the weapon's damage at face value isn't 5-10, its actually way higher (imagine its actually something like 100-200), though after it suffers from all its penalties from its effects, its real damage is 5-10.
Everything is set up to balance itself back out to something roughly equivalent to the Serrated Sacragon Spur, however it's still supposed to be slightly beyond that like the Ultimate Dragon Scythe of Elements.

Name: Tanto of Immorality

«Accurate Harm dagger. No special, but can be changed to become a 100%-proc Ranged weapon.»

Level: 150 (with weaker versions)

Type: Melee
Element: Harm
Damage: 5-10******* - This is after all penalties/boosts are factored in unless otherwise specified
BtH: 20******** - This is after all penalties/boosts are factored in unless otherwise specified

*******Stat Bonuses to damage: 0.75*(DEX/4) (possibly +LUK/2). This has not been calculated into the damage.
********Stat Bonuses to BTH: DEX/8 + LUK/20. This has not been calculated into the BTH.

«See Effect»

• You take +(15/1.4)% damage from enemy attacks.
• Weapon has a ((DEX/140)*10)% chance to deal +800% damage. (Takes whatever #% damage penalty to achieve this proc to power increase; This has been factored in.)
• Click on the weapon to switch between Melee* and Ranged** modes.
While in Melee mode, the weapon won't have a Special attack. Takes -10% damage penalty to pay for the Harm element. Gains +10 BTH and deals *85/95 damage from lean. This has been factored in.

While in Ranged mode, the weapon receives the following special. This is a bow attack and deals 96.3% of the damage of an average armor attack. Takes -10% damage penalty to pay for the Harm element. Gains +10 BTH and deals *85/95 damage from lean. This has been factored in. Each hit deals *1/4 damage. Not been factored in.

Hits: 4
Type: Ranged
Element: Harm
Damage: 100%
Stats: No normal stats; «See MC Effect» Lucky Strike damage
BTH: +1 plus Stats each
Rate: 100%

This is treated as a normal Player attack, not a Special.

• At the end of each turn, there is a 31/(5*7*11)*[hits connected]/[hits attempted] *85/(85+[BTH lean]) chance of inflicting "Vital wound"***, a renamed Fragile (-20 END, 10 turns), on monster. The monster can resist with a save at a +0 bonus****
-----Level: 153 vs MonsterLevel
-----Major: Your [DEX (in either mode)] vs MonsterEND
-----Minor: YourLUK vs MonsterLUK

The Fragile stacks
Number of turns do not reset if effect is stacked.
Enemies immune to Fragile***** are immune to this effect.

• Rate of lucky strikes is increased to 5% and stat bonuses from Lucky strikes multiply damage by 9 (or whatever boost the Serrated Sacragon Spur gets after 3-4 charges (or more; this is to not only counteract the low amount of damage it does by default, but to then allow it to do a very large considerable amount of damage)). (Takes whatever #% damage penalty to achieve this effect; This has been factored in.)

*You'll bring your weapon into Melee combat when you attack!
**You'll now throw your weapon for Ranged damage when you attack!
***You struck a vital spot!
****You miss a vital spot
*****Your opponent is immune to this assault.

Learn to strike smarter not harder. This weapon can only be used by a skilled master who knows where to strike most effective! Or someone with a bit of luck..

So ORIGINALLY I said: the idea behind this armor is to kind of appeal to the purest form of a beast master build imaginable where as your pets literally become your weapon creating a whole new play-style!
**HOWEVER IT HAS COME TO MY ATTENTION** that this idea has a lot in common with the Canine Warrior armor. I honestly didn't know this armor exists, however I am aware of the FSI regulations on updating armors so this could just be another separate armor OR the staff could use this as inspiration to update that armor instead. I'm fine with either or.

Name: Wolf Lord

«Mastercraft Mid-Defensive Light/Darkness.»

Element: Light/Darkness

Level: 148 (with weaker versions)
PowLvl: 148 MC


Defense Modifiers:
-----Melee: 56
-----Range: 32
-----Magic: 45
-----Fire: 69
-----Water: 69
-----Wind: 69
-----Ice: 69
-----Earth: 69
-----Energy: 96
-----Light: 42
-----Darkness: 42

Player sacrifices their turn and does nothing (Acts as a cost free spell that prevents weapon specials)

Immensely boosts the damage of canine pets and guests:
• Armor detects number of canine relevant equipment (pets, guests (active and non active), werewolf subrace)and applies damage and BtH boosts based on the number
• Each canine pet in inventory grants 1 "point" each towards the end boost; includes werewolf pets, Creptus, and razorclaw (max=8 points)
• Each inactive canine guest (spell) grants 1 "point" each; includes werewolf guests and chupacabra. (max= 8 points)
• An active canine guest counts as 1 "point"; includes werewolves, shadow wolf, and chupacabra
• Being a werewolf sub-race grants 1 "point"
• Having the Hunting Horn grants 1 "point"

# of specials 1 2 3 4 5-19
Modifier= +(#) : (#)*1.5 (#)*2 (#)*3 (#)*4 etc.
[Not really sure how to numerically balance this with making pets stronger, however, given all the versatile equipment you would have to sacrifice in order to get max points (19); each point should be significant, considering you're sacrificing damage that would be produced from a normal armor attack + weapon. Max points should easily put you on par with the bloodmage armors' armor skill spells in terms of damage.]

(Zero points)- * You're a lone wolf eh? Surely you won't survive for long.
(1-5 points)- ** Your pack is barely managing.
(6-12 points)- *** Your pack is strong, but not as strong as it could be!
(13-19 points)- **** *HOWLS*!!!!!!!!!!

• You receive Armor Lean x0.9.

• Against any canine enemies (Guard dogs, Shadow wolves, Werewolvess, Wolf riders, Heckhounds, etc.), all boosts are nullified completely. This is to encourage the player to change armors (as if to prove your dominance over your pack, you have to fight by yourself to defend your position and respect.)

*Your pack stands back as your leadership is challenged!

Graced by the blessings under moonLIGHT, wolves recognize you as an aspect of their nobility! You control all of dog kind but something about thunder unsettles you; I wonder why?

Something I just realized is that, however very unlikely though still possible, this armor would be unfeasible if a character didn't have any pets or guests (at least ones that can deal damage). Now that could be chalked up to the player's fault for not having a well rounded and diverse arsenal (like only buying and/or possessing fire weapons and running into a Magman). However, I DO have a solution to this problem, but I'd rather that be a more or less last resort especially since my reasoning for this being so powerful is how difficult to get the conditions right to be able to reach its max potential.

Name: White Ninja

«Mastercraft Fully Offensive Light/Earth armor armor.»

Element: Light

Level: 148 (with weaker versions)
PowLvl: 148 MC

Appearance: I had envisioned the Frostval Mercenary Garb with all the parts colored only white and the head being that of the White Gi and the three swords on the back replaced with one katana horizontal across the back like this.

Defense Modifiers:
-----Melee: 53
-----Range: 49
-----Magic: 49
-----Fire: 84
-----Water: 66
-----Wind: 95
-----Ice: 75
-----Earth: 50
-----Energy: 75
-----Light: 40
-----Darkness: 95

I would love for the same animation done with the Might UltraGuardian Plate's ATTACK #2.
If not, then the StarSlayer's ATTACK #2 animation.

Hits: 4
Type: «As Weapon»
Element: «As Weapon»
BR% 150
Stat% 299
+ BtH 24

• Has a 25% chance of anything attacking you to take -12 BTH*. This doesn't apply to Healing effects.
• You receive Armor Lean x1.25
• Getting hit with Earth lowers MRM by 1 per hit but increases Earth resistance by 1 per hit (Max MRM loss and resistance gain is 10)**
• At the end of each turn, the misc attempts to inflict Dilated Pupils (Renamed Berserk) on the monster (1 turn, -[BTH] and *85/[85-BTH] damage). The monster can resist with a save at a +0 bonus:

Level: PowLvl vs MonsterLvl
Major: VStat vs MonsterINT
Minor: YourLUK vs MonsterLUK

BtH: -25
VStat: 200

*The brightness of your clothes is hard to look at, lowering the accuracy of your opponent's strike!
**Ugh.. Your whites are getting dirty... what's the point now?

Description: Your whites shine so bright it makes anyone hard to look at you, and you can't hit what you can't see! Just make sure you stay clean!
Description: Don't you just hate it when someone gets your clean whites dirty? Wearing these bright whites really makes you not want anyone to touch you, improving your defenses!

I feel that the "Layard's Deception" quest (sorry there's no encyclopedia entry on the quest, at least at the time that I'm posting this) was a missed or delayed opportunity to get an amazing armor. I always figured that it would be released in a quest right after, however that quest never came into fruition. So I'll take it upon myself to suggest a much needed water armor that could even fit a rouge style build (actually thinking about it I don't think there are really any, save for the Felled Gunfighter, but that's "iffy" and eventually requires z-tokens) and even a warrior build. Water lord knows we need more of those (no I'm not suggesting a shield to go with the armor even though Layard's Spear is already an in game item because the NPC doesn't wield a shield.):

Name: Layard's Guidance

«Mastercraft Neutral water armor.»

Location: Clyde's forge
Element: Water

Price: 26117454
Sellback: 26117454
Level: 148 (with weaker versions)
PowLvl: 148 MC

Appearance: Pretty much exactly how the NPC's armor looks (sorry there's no encyclopedia entry on the NPC or enemy (monster) to link to), though I would prefer the armor to not have the helm that the NPC wears (I just don't like the way it looks), but whatever is easier. I'd also like it to have a long flowing scarf like the Piratechaun armor (only white instead of green); to make it look more roguish and less "knighty"

Defense Modifiers:
-----Melee: 55
-----Range: 54
-----Magic: 54
-----Fire: 84
-----Water: 40
-----Wind: 50
-----Ice: 60
-----Earth: 95
-----Energy: 95
-----Light: 77
-----Darkness: 77

To be honest, I would love if this armor was coded to work just like the Boreal Bolt Plate, just like how the Truphma suit is just a reskinned Falerin suit and looks and works nothing like how an actual Truphma attacks.

Hits: 3 (Boreal Bolt Plate's Attack #2 animation (without wind))
Type: «As Weapon»; «As Weapon»; «Melee converts to Ranged; otherwise As Weapon»
Element: «As Weapon»
Hit #1, #3
BR% 321
Stat% 678
+ BtH 18

Hit #2
BR% 166
Stat% 336
+ BtH 18
[If I had to have any reasoning for this; Layard's description says, "Layard is more of a leader than a fighter", where as you are a fighter, one of the best in fact.]

Or Ultimon's armor:

Hits: 3
Type: «As Weapon»
Element: «As Weapon»
BR% 222
Stat% 456
+ BtH 18
Reasoning for Ultimon's armor is if the whole spirit/will inside the armor is really explored from the version suggested of the quest, considering Ultimon's armor literally says:

as if his will somehow still remains within it.

(as well as I was having trouble finding a suitable model that wouldn't look out of place holding a spear and that I also liked). The enemy attacks like he should be holding a sword instead of a spear.
Point is, you should be able to preform better skills and technique in combat. Though I would be fine if the armor worked just like Layard; and in that case:
Hits: 1
Type: «As Weapon»
Element: «As Weapon»
Damage: 653.6% Base, Random and 1294.85% Stats
BTH: +18 plus Stats

• MC effect is equivalent to Layard's ability to "predict your next attack, and dodge out of the way", which I assume is the equivalent to a higher percent chance of the Twilight set armor(s) (since it doesn't have nearly the elemental resistances as the twilight set armor) or an Eye of Naab (shield) that auto triggers when attacked (sorry there's no encyclopedia entry on the NPC or enemy (monster) to reference to get numbers from).
So rate is 20.43% /(1-0.0392*[Monster WATER Resist]/100)%
• You receive Armor Lean x1.125 (Phase 1).

*The whispers predict your opponents next attack, and you dodge out of the way!

Description (without quest): Clyde has really outdone himself creating a replica of Layard's armor. It whispers of Layard's wisdom helping you dodge by predicting your opponents attacks!
Description (with quest): You can hear whispers of Layard's spirit, helping you dodge by predicting your opponents attacks!

So I figured it MIGHT have a better chance that the armor gets made if there's a quest behind it, otherwise I don't really care about the quest. But for the sole purpose of getting the armor in game:

Layard's favor

Prerequisites: Must have completed Layard's Deception (quest)
Location: Travel Map -> Clyde's Forge -> Your weapons.... -> Layard's Justice

«You»: Clyde
Clyde: What's up «You»?
«You»: How long ago was that story of Layard?
Clyde: Hmm.. A few years ago, why?
«You»: A few years ago! So he's still alive in prison?!
Clyde: Quite possibly.
«You»: Clyde, why haven't you done anything about this?!
Clyde: Why do you think I sent you that invitation to come here?
«You»: Well..
Clyde: Exactly, I've been researching to find the shadowy figure that had kidnapped the princess to send a hero to stop him.. or her.
Clyde: Which is why I told you I would tell you later, and now I have located them.
«You»: Where do I need to go?
Clyde: Apparently he's hauled out in a settlement full of raiders that needs your help, here I'll mark it on your map.
«You»: ...
Clyde: What are you still waiting for? Layard is still in prison, don't waste even a minute man!
«You»: I hate you.
Clyde: What?


(after defeating all enemies and boss)

«You arrive at back at Clyde's forge.»

«You»: I defeated our adversary.
Clyde: Good, unfortunately Layard passed away a year ago.
«You»: How sad.
Clyde: However, being a soulsmith, I am able to communicate with spirits as I had mentioned when you first arrived.
Clyde: In life, Layard was a gifted strategist, but was only barely a decent fighter.
Clyde: Layard's spirit wishes to lead you, however because his spirit isn't necessarily powerful or vengeful he can't manifest like the ghosts you're used to.
Clyde: Unless you're a soulsmith like myself, you'd have no way to and communicate with him.
Clyde: Luckily for you.. in simple terms I smelt his soul into his armor. If you wear it he will be able to guide you in your battles.
«You»: Layard will live on with me.


Layard's favor

Layard's armor

< Message edited by Mr. Popo -- 8/12/2019 1:38:35 >
Post #: 1
8/18/2019 1:19:25   

The Question

Not sure if asking a question for a suggestion, or suggesting a suggestion. But why say Rogues are being ignored?

< Message edited by Rorshach -- 8/18/2019 1:20:03 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 2
8/19/2019 22:53:34   
Mr. Popo

I say that because when is the last time an armor or set that was focused on benefiting rouges released?

Because there are all these clearly broken armors and items for mages and warriors to be able to feasibly be a viable playstyle compared to mages, but you dont see any effort made to support rogues.

Even when there are very clear opportunities to give rogues something; like the blarney holiday event that starred the ninjachauns in which every time Uncle Sham has donned a new get up for whatever scheme he's attempted, EVERYTIME we were able to purchase a like minded theme armor. Obviously except of course when it would benefit rogues, no all we get are arguably worthless weapons.

My question is to draw attention to the fact that there is a lack in items being released to level the playing field for rouges and the content are multiple ideas to decrease this problem.

< Message edited by Mr. Popo -- 8/19/2019 22:58:56 >
Post #: 3
8/20/2019 7:35:37   

The Question

That depends. What are your variables you've set that would determine something to be rogue-aligned?

Stats have had a recent change to them, causing DEX to be in a weird spot. So, if that's the basis of your criteria, that needs to be re-aligned.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 4
8/22/2019 13:44:46   
Mr. Popo

The answer to that is quite simple actually and in my opinion, best explained by comparing it to the other builds. The key points defining the build being:
1. How much damage is taken
2. How much damage is given
3. How the character survives until a full heal
Ultimately, the weapon is not important because all builds usually take advantage of the accuracy boost from DEX and therefore could all feasibly use ranged weapons however unlikely due to the weird spot you mentioned earlier.

1. Takes a lot of damage and very squishy because armors usually do not provide great resistances.
2. Deals a ton of damage due to being able to fully utilize spells in which MP is a limited resource. Therefore to make spells even viable, they need to be worth the sacrifice of MP.
3. Survives in the sense of a glass cannon. dealing insane amounts of damage before they take too much damage.

1. Takes minimal damage due to high resistances.
2. Deals decent and consistent damage.
3. Survives by being able to absorb a lot of punishment and dealing consistent damage. Basically winning a war of attrition.

1. Very squishy, but not as much as a mage.
2. Deals a lot of damage consistently and extreme amounts of damage on lucky strikes.
3. Survives by having high MRM, being able to consistently dodge/block hits. But the ability to do this is also a limited resource and potential items that would boost damage or absorb damage will have to be sacrificed to dodge temporarily. Essentially deal as much damage as you can before the monster can catch you.

So simply put:
Something rogue aligned should have high MRM and high damage capability EVEN MORE SO than Warriors. It should also look rogue in appearance; the last thing I can think of that was released somewhat for rogues, was the sneak essence armor. An armor that is supposed to be based off the essence of a monster entirely built around being this small and slippery serpent and having high dodging capability, is a big beefy barbarian looking armor with only somewhat decent MRM.

< Message edited by Mr. Popo -- 8/22/2019 13:56:34 >
Post #: 5
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