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RE: Last hopes of an old player

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11/1/2019 21:19:27   
Kurtz96
Member

I actually don't know how to beat the boss. Is there a gimmick to the heal? Cause the in story version can be stunned and burst down. While this boss can't.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 26
11/2/2019 3:54:08   
HellsWolf666
Member

quote:

there will likely be some fights that the group may not be immediately prepared for, or that gives them more trouble than expected.
So I think a few big challenges in a story are okay.


i think it got lost somewhere in the text block i wrote but im all up for making challenging and unexpected bosses as long as they are made to be balanced and fair(and yes, sometimes a nerf will be needed when players can't beat it despite actually trying a few times and not just lose once and give up),

to continue the D&D analogy-you always save an interesting monster with a few unique skills and place it at the end of your dungeon or story arc, winning against a challenging foe makes the players feel like they have acomplished a great feat and enables you as a DM to reward them with better and stronger loot with out it feeling like you are giving it for free.



lastly i think both verly and dove deserve some praise for even trying to juggle between the needs of casual and endgame players in an attempt to keep the gameplay relevant from start to finish, iv seen many games that make you rush through the main story and reach max lvl within a few days, reward you with some basic high lvl gear and then throw you in some endgame zone where all you do is grind the same quest or mobs so you could craft some fancy endgame gear only for it to become outdated when the next big update comes with it's own fancier and better gear that you now have to grind for over a long period of time.
DF  Post #: 27
11/2/2019 18:12:31   
The Jop
Member

There's no reason to drastically increase the difficulty of story bosses as Verly said. A bit of difficulty is fine, but everyone should be able to enjoy the story since it's the main draw of the game for a lot of players. If players that want a challenge aren't satisfied with their monthly inn challenges, maybe they can turn on hard mode and fight bosses using ChickenCow Armor and no other items.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 28
11/3/2019 13:55:37   
anime_rpg
Member

I haven't read all of the posts here, but reading a few I will say that I am one of those that have played from the start and am a casual player, especially as I have an often busy job. I do have a DA (I had been playing AQ and started DF in testing and fell in love so got a DA as soon as it was available), and I do have about half of the calendar classes so those do make things easier for me. I am casual and so do not like to grind and farm and so have only done so on rare occasions, and that is why even though I am one of the originally players and haven not stopped playing I am not even level 80.

I am a player that likes to do everything and try every release and so when the Inn first came out I was struggling and battling, doing my best to try and beat them, looking at all strategies on the forum, etc. After a while I had to accept that they were for the players that do like to spend hours trying everything out to beat the boss, that had spent so long they were max level, etc. and so I have put the challenges aside and don't feel bad about not completing them. I am hoping though that the Inn guide on the forums keeps getting updated so that I can go back and beat all of the challenges, hopefully when I am level 80 rather than needing max level.

For the story quests I have found a couple hard and requiring a few tries, but none I think were too bad and I thought the occasional slightly difficult challenge (only slightly, not Inn level) was good for the story as Verly said before. However as Verly said there is a difference in power between DA and non-DA and then I also have some calendar classes so that can make it easier for me.

Throughout the staff for DF I have always thought it a fantastic game. At Uni I had to stop playing AE for a couple weeks for exams (AQ, DF, MQ and AQW), and when I started again I only started playing DF and AQW again (it was a real shame giving up AQ and MQ because they were such great games in their own ways as well, and also now knowing that MQ would stop and so if I could have kept going for a few more years I could have enjoyed all of its story).

Someone pointed out treating DF like a VN and I agree, it has such a great and also with some stronger classes I can just go straight through the base enemies to then enjoy the cutscenes, maybe having a little harder time with the boss because of extra mechanics that then means if you specialise in taking out base monsters you would have more difficulty and so you then need to change classes and balance.

Like others I want to say how great the team is doing on DF. Tomix/Dove with his great artwork and stories. Verly with some good, interesting mechanics, not necessarily making boss fights hard but all the different mechanics being added to the game, as well as support with different story ideas. All the rest of the team with ideas for their own storylines, their artwork they add, and also support in the main and side storylines.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 29
11/16/2019 20:16:45   
Jovan
Member

Maybe you need to update your stats and gear? The stat system has gone through a major overhaul, and I learned the hard way that you need to keep your gear updated. If you sort those out, you should be able to handle the story quests just fine. If you're still stuck, try changing your class.
AQ DF  Post #: 30
11/17/2019 23:38:55   
Captain Capricorn
Member

Another older player here. I've played dragonfable in fits and starts for almost 12 years now. What I've noticed, especially after going back and playing older quests from like 2008 to 2010, the complexity of the game has increased dramatically.

I'm a pretty casual player myself (heck, my account was made in 2007 and I'm still level 46, go figure), and I found the challenges of the mainline quests to be on perfectly suited for for both story purposes as well as mechanical purposes. As others have mentioned here before the inn quests are designed to test the mechanical limits of the game, and test out new mechanics all together. And then those mechanics are refined and then put into the main line quests. I think this Dynamics perfect for the game and helps bridge the gap between Hardcore gameplay and casual gameplay.

Although I totally get where casual players are coming from, because I started playing again last year, and that was after nearly a 7-year long hiatus. It took me a long time to get up to speed with the game, and I spent some cash on some dragon coins in order to be able to tinker with my stats. However I found a learning curve to be manageable enough, but the initial stages of getting back up to speed we're very very difficult, especially after expecting gameplay that was similar to the very early game, where the game mechanics were much more shallow.

I appreciate how complex the game has become as well as how complex the story has become. Dragon fable a very compelling game, and no matter how long my hiatus is, I always find myself wandering back regardless :) I just want to say what an amazing job the devs have been doing over the years.

I was ten when I started playing this game, and now I'm 22, so I've literally been playing this game for more than half my life, and I have enjoyed every second of it. Thank you again to The Devs for creating such an amazing experience. :)

< Message edited by Captain Capricorn -- 11/17/2019 23:41:00 >
DF AQW  Post #: 31
11/18/2019 15:25:15   
Arathos
Member
 

 I think it has become obvious that the immense power range of players makes it impossible to deliver just the right amount of challenge for everyone and catering to one side of the spectrum will upset the other. I am totally fine with the monthly challenges as long as they are optional and disjunct from the story, so I don't have to bother with switching between builds or hunting for specific equipment. But I would still feel disappointed if some awesome story villain would put up a lackluster fight just so everyone playing the game can beat it no problem.

That issue is not new in the realm of story driven RPGs and one of the least invasive solutions is a story mode which makes fights essentially pushovers. Add a toggle next to Hard Mode in the options which checks if the current quest completed variable is already set or not. If not it tones down the damage and healing of enemies dramatically. Once the quest is completed it plays out as normal preventing any significant abuse. All you have to consider from a design perspective is that it does not become like putting on Doom Knight and you unintentionally start beating unbeatable bosses.
Post #: 32
12/14/2019 16:23:05   
ninnin90
Member

I'm one of those players who's been with the game since childhood. I'm not quite a 'hardcore' player but im certainly not a 'casual' player either. I have a DA, I'm good with every (non-dc) class, I have decent gear (not BiS, but still enough to get the job done 99% of the time), I have a good dps focused build with my character and baby dragon, but some of the more recent boss fights have been giving me a lot of trouble if i don't use a 100% optimal strategy, or rarely, have been flat out impossible without a nerf. And i was going to share my long opinion on game balance and design when I remembered there might be a way for everyone to have their cake and eat it too?

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it already, since everyone has a lot to say about this topic and my adhd won't let me read the collective small novella's worth of comments this thread has inspired, but whatever happened to extreme mode fights? Back in the day there used to be two or more versions of basically every boss fight, where the regular mode had more or less the same mechanics as the extreme mode fight but it had it's numbers reduced and/or one of the more difficult mechanics restricted or removed with the goal of being possible using even the base classes.

The pre-nerf swole verly fight would be a good example of what i think an extreme mode fight should be (use optimal class + high-end gear, bring food, minmaxed build, etc). Any combination of less uptime on buffs, more regular attacks in rotation to space out abilities, slower ramping mechanics, removed defence ramping, or reduced healing would make the fight much more possible for casual players while still being interesting.

I can't remember a boss in recent memory that had a regular and extreme mode. Does making two seperate versions a fight that work like this take twice the work or take too much time to implement with how the game is being made nowadays?

Edit after reading more of the thread:
quote:

Verlyrus: I personally prefer the Challenges adaptation instead of Extreme because they allow me to also provide separate rewards for defeating them.


ahh, that makes sense... I suppose it just isn't possible to fork a quest in such a way that the extreme mode of a fight gives different random drops. The extreme mode button bringing you to a room with a chest that has a seperate rewards shop might be a compromise, but then those rewards wouldn't be random so it limits what you could do design wise...

< Message edited by ninnin90 -- 12/14/2019 16:43:35 >
AQ DF  Post #: 33
12/19/2019 12:49:08   
gakorogirl
Member

I have to agree that as a casual player (been playing this character for over 5 years, currently at level 45, have completed basically all of the main story but very few of the side quests, holiday storylines, or challenges) I find a lot of the more recent story quests to have a considerable increase in difficulty that I'm not fond of. I love the storyline, I don't love spending a couple hours just working through the same quest over and over with changes of gear. I do have a DA but only got it about a year ago.

Potentially a solution to this would be to introduce an extra-easy mode for the big storyline bosses?
DF AQW  Post #: 34
1/6/2020 16:29:51   
dragon_master
Member

^Again, why should the game be designed around a specific group of players?
You are, after all, adapting to the environment, not vice-versa.
I wish for devs to ignore these... "arguments"... because that is an entirely wrong turn in my PoV.
DF  Post #: 35
1/7/2020 14:04:11   
Kurtz96
Member

quote:

^Again, why should the game be designed around a specific group of players?
You are, after all, adapting to the environment, not vice-versa.

But you are asking the same thing, you want the game to be designed around your specific group of players (end game veterans). DF can't get new players if the difficulty barrier is too high. And not everyone has the time/money to reach endgame and purchase all the best armors (Epoch, DmK, Chaosweaver).

The main story line quests are story/plot driven, not game play driven. There will be areas for challenges (Inn) specifically designed for end game players. Now how well the Inn is going right now is debatable (and a current topic of discussion in the release thread right now) but ramping up difficulty in main story line quests is not necessary.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 36
1/7/2020 14:42:52   
dragon_master
Member

^Difference is in understanding the player mindsets - Players like me want the game to remain enjoyable on all fronts, while OP wants it solely dumbed down, so they can enjoy whatever. Games such as DF do not get new players as much as they used to. We should take that OoQ.

Nobody is asking for story quests to have difficulty ramped up. If anything, the difficulty is lowering, enjoyment with it, starting from OC Manaphage nerfs.
In other words, people such as OP are requesting changes that only favor themselves. They are not willing to adapt, and as such, why should the anyone care about them?

You don't need things like DmK or CW to pass story quests. DA, sure, maybe.
Talk about - trying to create problems that don't exist. Funniest parts being them creating silly excuses as basis for these proposed changes.

< Message edited by dragon_master -- 1/7/2020 14:46:58 >
DF  Post #: 37
1/7/2020 14:54:46   
Kurtz96
Member

You keep talking about people willing to adapt, but not everyone has the ability or means to do what you was asking. Some people can't buy a DA. Some people can only play a few hours a week so can't level up quickly. You keep saying you want the game to be enjoyable on all fronts, but that means the general game should be enjoyable to everyone form level 5 kids to level 90 end game DmK who have spend hundreds of dollars.

If you read the OP, he has tried to adapt. But consider the Theano boss for the thorns quest line. Many people on this forum wanted it to replace the Inn challenge version of Theano because it was harder. That level of boss the type of thing the OP is struggling with. Not random filler quest line stuff like at the end of hidebehind.

< Message edited by Kurtz96 -- 1/7/2020 15:02:34 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 38
1/7/2020 16:02:51   
dragon_master
Member

If they cannot adapt, then they should not play the game in the first place. That is the factual principle of Evolution.

If such changes take effect, I would be extremely disappointed. I cannot be bothered to go in further details regarding this.

And no, he has not tried. If he were, this thread would de facto not exist. But instead of course, they must complain on forums, because that helps their problem.

< Message edited by dragon_master -- 1/7/2020 16:03:39 >
DF  Post #: 39
1/7/2020 21:02:49   
  Gingkage
Wolf Rider


 I have not been so disappointed in this forum in a very long time. The point of a discussion forum is to discuss different opinions, and I have seen this thread devolve from one person stating an opinion that had interesting discussion into what amounts to little more than mudslinging. One of the biggest rules of this forum is to respect the opinions of others. Since it has been proven that people are incapable of this, this thread has been locked. Do not recreate.

~Gingakge
DragonFable General Discussion Head Moderator
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 40
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