quote:Endgame by definition refers to content that is played after one beats a game (or in DF's case, completes the story so far and grinds to level 90) and as a result is balanced around players who are at level 90. It is still available for players of any level to go to it in case they want a challenge even at the low levels; and challenges such as the Dragon and Nefarious Challenges, as well as a few others, can very well be beaten by low-level players with good enough knowledge of the game. However, it is not exactly designed to be played by them and as such, newer/less experienced players should stay away from the Inn at low levels.
While, yes, the Inn is intended as a challenge for endgame players, it is still available for any player of almost any level to have a go at, if they so choose.
By making the Inn available to such an eclectic mix of player levels and player types, it's inevitable that there will be disagreements about the "best way" to go about the Inn challenges.
quote:This question references the topic of balance and is in the same vein as the "single-player game" comment, which has been countered earlier. Game Balance is something the developers care highly about. For example, as Marthe said, ChaosWeaver had an extensive testing period and underwent 9 iterations so as to come out with a well-balanced class. Monthly reimaginations and buffs to older classes such as Pirate and Technomancer as well as nerfs to unfair Challenges such as old Failed Doom and old Beginning and End are more than evidence of the fact that Verlyrus wants the game to be balanced and well-designed and the single-player comment is highly disrespectful to his efforts.
What difference does it make to you, as a player, if someone uses guests? If I want to take Artix and Rolith to the Inn and smash out some challenges, how in any way does that affect any of you?
Exactly, it doesn't. If your ego is fragile enough to be threatened by people completing the Inn "illegitimately", then lobby for the Inn to be an endgame-only challenge. Restricted to level 85+, no guests.
How someone beats the Inn is none of your business - if you want to go through the Inn solo and really test your knowledge of DragonFable, then go ahead! No one is stopping you. Equally, no one is stopping level 5 Jim with Artix and Rolith from cranking out a few Inn challenges. Sure, it isn't the same as beating the Inn solo and without guests, but what difference does it make to you? What real, tangible difference? None at all.
Furthermore, there are players who try their best to figure out the boss' mechanics even on release night and keep bashing their heads against the wall until it breaks. It's honestly very demotivating when you find out that all that effort you poured into carefully mapping out a strategy, insisting on trial-and-error until finally executing it successfully is completely unnecessary when you could simply just "take Artix and Rolith to the Inn and smash out some challenges" and get their rewards, no sweat.
And before you argue with the classic "If you don't like them, don't use them" comment, I would like to counterargue that ignoring a glaring issue doesn't make it go away. It's still a wrench in the gears of game design and balance.
quote:Just because you paid 80$ doesn't make you the king of the game. You already have the literal best questing, farming, and warring class in the game and can already trivialize one of the hardest solo challenges in the game-Yllmar, the Maw of the Deep. It literally has a button that steals 15% of the enemy's HP and gives it to you, why would it be allowed in an endgame arena where you're supposed to use your brain instead of braindead-spamming a button until you inevitably win? How would you even find this satisfying, or for that matter, consider it fair that others have to struggle to do what you did in 15 turns at max? Why do you think this broken armor with so many broken features such as -100 Darkness Resistance, halved Mana Costs on a Mana-Hungry Class, 800% damage Blood Rite, with Life Carve being the cherry on top of the cake was pretty much made inaccessible for those that don't already have it?
Personally, I object to DoomKnight V1 being banned from the Inn - after all, I've paid (a ridiculous fee) for it, so why can't I use it in the challenges? I got the class because I like the game, and I paid a large sum of money to obtain the class, so surely I should be able to use it in the Inn? But I'm not. I personally can't be bothered to go out and train up a class when I've already paid for objectively the best class in the game, so why shouldn't I be able to use it in the Inn? Same principle with using guests for the Inn fights. It's part of the game, therefore I should be able to use it if I want to. No one is stopping you from putting restrictions, such as a solo-only run, in place to make your victories at the Inn more satisfying for you.
If you lot want to spend your time finding strategies to solo it, then go ahead. No one is stopping you.
Also, you have access to DoomKnight v2, which is the next strongest class in the game, and you are allowed to use that for 90% of challenges (it's banned from Exemperor, Exraveler, and triggers a special damage boost on Sepulchure). That's the strongest non-rare class in the game which is also not insanely broken and performs well against several challenges. I also have to ask, do you consider if fair that, if v1 was allowed in the Inn, people who paid 80$ similarly to you wouldn't get to use the same class that you use to trivialize challenges?
Also, in my honest opinion, if you can be least bothered to train classes and get gear to beat Inn Challenges, you don't even come close to deserving the rewards.
quote:And they won't be banned from the Inn. I have said this before. Verlyrus doesn't want to blanket ban them from the Inn and wants to make them interesting and not stinky cheese. We don't want them to be banned anymore, we just want them to not be disgusting and game-breaking.
But guests are a feature of the game, and shouldn't be banned from the Inn while lower-level players are still able to fight at the Inn. If you want the Inn to be endgame only, then restrict it to endgame levels.
Life isn't fair, and not everyone wants to play through the Inn and find the best strategy. Get used to it and stop moaning because you feel like it removes value from your solo run of the Inn. It doesn't.
quote:Sure, by all means, pretend to not understand someone and patronize them over grammar because you have no valid points left to make.
(Also, it's whose, not who's. The account belongs to, and is associated with, me.)
quote:Then you have full right to talk about the story and add in whatever you want to add in, in regards to that. But you don't touch the Inn because of real-life forces and really don't know what you're talking about so it's best you don't.
I've played on and off with a mainly story-driven character, and don't have time to grind up to level 90 considering I'm in the final year of my degree, so I don't have time to do much other than login and catch up on the releases I want to catch up on.
The odd thing about having 6 character slots available is that I might also have other characters who may be more suited to the Inn, and it's not unlikely that I've simply linked my main, oldest, and favorite character.
quote:There are several ways to do a fight differently than just guests, such as different classes, builds, dragon and trinket skills, etc. The issue is when a strategy used is blatantly unbalanced.
Furthers the point I made earlier about fragile egos feeling invalidated by someone else doing it differently to you...
quote:He never said that, he said that you never used Circlegan or any of your characters for the Inn so you don't know what you're talking about and don't exactly have an informed opinion when it comes to the Inn.
Does that mean that Circelgan is for story use only? Nope. I said I mainly play for the story, but also "catch up on releases I want to catch up on". If that means I crack out an Inn challenge using DmKV2 or basic Warrior, does that have any bearing on your choice to solo the Inn?
quote:It is balanced around level 90 players and will obviously be too difficult for players below, say, level 80. And yes, it is only recommended as an endgame arena due to its difficulty but that doesn't mean that anyone at any level should be able to trivialize challenges with guests or any other broken devices with no thought put into the game. Again, people have managed to beat the early boards at low levels also.
If the Inn was truly meant to be an endgame-only challenge (instead of only being recommended as one), then it should be level-restricted to the highest levels of the game and have guests stripped from it.
quote:I fail to see how these two are even connected. Guests are blatantly broken and overpowered because of enemy random targeting and that's why they should be changed.
If Verlyrus and Dove want to make a real endgame challenge and restrict it to level 85+, then I just have to accept the fact that I can't play through the Inn with Circelgan. Until then, people can and will use guests in the Inn; it makes no difference to how you experience the game, and constant whinging on the forums about how it devalues the achievement of the Inn is meaningless as long as the Inn remains open to sub-endgame levels.
< Message edited by BluuHorseOfficial -- 3/2/2020 7:50:52 >