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Suggestion: class design and int.

 
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11/4/2020 12:55:15   
D3m37r1
Member
 

I stopped playing many years ago but came back recently. Back then the offensive stats were all balanced but now int is back on top. This is mostly due to the fact that many classes have a skill with +200 crit and/or a crit buff. My base class is warrior but I don't have any points in strength because with enough int, the technomancer's force sword can 1 shot most non bosses. As a result I also do not have any swords or axes even though I think they tend to look the coolest.
So here's my suggestions.

Either:

Remove the secondary effects of str, dex and int and then buff the primary effects to make up for it. This way all the stats would be equal for the second time in DF history.

OR

Rework some classes to not have guaranteed crits/ crit buffs but instead have large boosts. Currently Dragon Warrior is the only class that somewhat attempts that.


On the topic of classes. Technomancer is really strong. I would love to see other classes become as strong as technomancer. Paladin and dragonslayer have niches and are very good at those niches so they don't need any buffs. But the rest of classes could use some love.

< Message edited by D3m37r1 -- 11/4/2020 12:56:49 >
Post #: 1
11/4/2020 16:02:53   
TFS
Helpful!


quote:

int is back on top

Different classes prefer different mainstats. The greatest number of classes actually prefer STR, because...

quote:

This is mostly due to the fact that many classes have a skill with +200 crit and/or a crit buff.

...In many cases, said crit skill doesn't have high enough base power or has too long of a cooldown to offer enough damage to be worth investing in INT. Crit buff skills are incredibly rare; I believe there are only 6 classes in the game capable of doing so, half of which are now-unobtainable calendar items from many years ago.

quote:

As a result I also do not have any swords or axes even though I think they tend to look the coolest.

If the expensive nature of extremely limited inventory space isn't an issue for you, you can use the 'show' button in your inventory to display the art of a weapon you like while keeping the stats of another.

quote:

Remove the secondary effects of str, dex and int and then buff the primary effects to make up for it. This way all the stats would be equal for the second time in DF history.

Being equal isn't necessarily a good thing if it comes at the expense of not having secondary effects and therefore offering fewer options to the player. If all the mainstats did the exact same thing then what would even be the point of having three of them? It's not like weapon types matter outside of the base class you'll have moved on from by level 20.
DF  Post #: 2
11/6/2020 0:25:30   
AstralCodex
Member

+1 to what TFS said.

I'll add that you're wrong about int being on top. Technomancer is one of the few free non-base class locked classes that actually uses INT. Here's a list of free classes, as well as what mainstat you should use for endgame play:
- Ascended Chickencow - STR: Summon Arrester has long CD. The two other high damage moves (Ascended Strike, Wrath of Chickencow) are not autocrits.
- Chickencow - STR: No autocrit or +crit skill (you really only have two usable skills).
- Deathknight - STR: the autocrit has a super long CD and low base damage, and Dreadblade, the highest damage move, is not an autocrit. DEX is also defensible if you're offensive gearswapping for autocrit and dreadblade.
- DragonLord - STR: Eye has a long CD and low base damage. The two highest damage moves (Soul, Heart) are both not autocrits.
- DragonSlayer - STR: Keen Eye has long CD and low base damage. The highest damage move (Fire Dragon) is also not an autocrit.
- Evolved ChickenCow - STR: There are arguments for INT since some skills are magic locked, but BBQ, MCCA, and Eggteor are all non autocrits.
- Master Soulweaver - STR: This is closer because Valor Impact is a decently sized (240%) autocrit you use every 6 turns, but Sync is not an autocrit and way bigger.
- Necromancer - STR: Summon Champion has long CD and low base damage. Most of your direct damage comes from seed + familiar, which is not an autocrit. DEX is also defensible if you're offensive gearswapping for seed + familiar.
- Ninja - STR: Massive strike has decent damage relative to your other skills, but super long CD. Catalyst is where most of your direct damage comes from, and isn't an autocrit. DEX is also defensible since you have 100% DoT uptime. The actual answer is CHA because Dragon.
- Paladin - STR: Holy Wrath is a decent sized autocrit, but most of your damage still comes from non crit skills. Cor Lucem is basically never used as it's good locked. Again, the actual answer is CHA because dragon.
- Pirate - STR: While Locker has decent damage, it has a super long CD and most of your damage comes from non autocrit skills. Again, the actual answer is CHA because dragon.
- Ranger - STR/DEX: While Ranger has loopable +200 Crit, the mechanics of the class mean you're locked into STR/DEX.
- Soulweaver - INT: Concentrate gives +200 Crit, and most of your damage comes from Sync, which benefits from concentrate.
- Technomancer - INT: High uptime +50 crit and a powerful low CD autocrit in Force Sword

So among the 14 non DC/SO/Seasonal classes, 8 use STR for sure, 3 use either STR or DEX, one uses STR+DEX, and only two use INT. Even adding in the base classes for 23 total, we would end up with ~12.5 STR, ~4.5 DEX, 1 STR+DEX, and 5 INT. I wouldn't call that "INT being on top".


EDIT: I agree that Technomancer is really strong. In my opinion, it's probably the best non-base locked non DC/SO class, with its chief weakness being a lack of early burst.



< Message edited by AstralCodex -- 11/6/2020 0:32:10 >
DF  Post #: 3
11/7/2020 5:26:16   
Dratomos
Helpful!


I think the problem here lies with your first sentence.

quote:

I stopped playing many years ago but came back recently.


The game has changed a lot, especially with combat in Inn. So while it is true that Technomancer gets a huge boost from INT compared to others, many other classes are better suited for other stats as well. I would suggest you actually get to know all of the classes as they have gained huge revamps over the course of many years and try all of the Inn challenges and see how well they work before coming here with suggestions that don't make a lot of sense.

And while Technomancer is clearly the strongest of all storyline classes, it is also the only one that has a lvl requirement. You need to be lvl 30 to access it, while you can go get and train Paladin class as low as lvl 2.
DF  Post #: 4
11/9/2020 10:36:49   
D3m37r1
Member
 

Idk how to quote so

To AstralCodex: Thanks for the info. I realized that I was wrong.

To Dratomos: Lvl 30 is one third of the way to the level cap. It is not a big enough accomplishment to warrant technomancer being better than the other classes. Back when technomancer was introduced it was, due to the lvl cap being 40 and book 1 not being even close to finished.

I hope they buff the other classes to be on par with technomancer.
Post #: 5
11/9/2020 13:06:58   
AstralCodex
Member

You're welcome!
DF  Post #: 6
11/25/2020 22:12:50   
Eris Blackwood
Member

Wow you guys are really intense. I barley understand stats and all that jazz. Are there any guides of this stuff? My base is a mage and I have high INT, but my current main is Togslayer and it's been that way since the class came out. It's so good for killing stuff quickly, but maybe there's something better that I've overlooked? I've got lots of DCs.

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AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
11/26/2020 0:32:29   
AstralCodex
Member

I'm pretty sure Togslayer should use STR, since Fire Tog is not an autocrit and Final doesn't happen that much.
DF  Post #: 8
11/26/2020 6:22:18   
Fire alandry
Member

About that topic.. If you have more than 100 crit- something possible at level 90- wouldn't INT be better for almost every class, except maybe Ranger? Am I missing something?
DF  Post #: 9
11/26/2020 13:13:30   
AstralCodex
Member

You don't have more than 100 crit with standard best in slot gear. You have 80-85. For example, this set of gear (with defender's gear, which I think is bis overall) has 80 crit:
quote:

Exalted Apotheosis
Nick's Toasty Cape VIII
Defender's Dragon Ring XXXII
Ancient DragonLord Helm III
Defender's Dragon Necklace XXXV
Elemental Unity Defender XV
Defender's Dragon Belt XXIII
Legion Bracer


This set of best-in-slot non-DM gear has 82 crit:
quote:

Exalted Apotheosis
Wings of the Unraveler III
Tentacle of the Dominion III
Ancient DragonLord Helm III
Squirrel Tentacle IV
The Corrupted Seven
Ribbon of Compromise V
Legion Bracer


You do get over 100 with offensive gear and either Verraad or Threadcutter, but it's rare that you'll do a boss fight with just pure offensive gear.

The other way to get over 100 crit is to invest in LUK, but damage-wise you're generally better investing in DEX after either STR/INT.
DF  Post #: 10
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