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RE: =AQ= Golden Giftbox Cross-Game Extravaganza Part 2

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4/11/2021 8:41:32   
joac1144
Member

quote:

Default Attack: Same as weapon, 2 hits, chance to inflict 100% Afraid Status.
Skill Attack: Element locked to Fire, 0 SP cost, 2 hits, +70% bonus damage, chance to inflict Dazed/Paralysed.

The Skill costs 0 SP, so you can spam your SP on the shield's Fire skill.

Really nice armour, only the lean is Neutral.

Not sure if there is any FSB, since I can't see a Void Awakening weapon.

The armor does not Daze at all, despite what the top message says. It inflicts Paralyze.

There is a set bonus (armor+shield). The bonus is the attempt to inflict Fear/Paralyze. The armor by itself is nothing else than a Neutral lean Fire armor with a toggle to lock your normal attacks to Fire and get eleComp.

I assume we get infosubs for the new items once the Steamtank armor is released, otherwise I'll make some.
AQ  Post #: 26
4/11/2021 9:37:38   
Sphinx Jevoha
Member



@ Silver Horn Ouch, that was a brutal review! But I guess you have made some good points too. The armour's Neutral lean means it will never be used, and the weapons are similar to many non-URs. Will they tweak these, perhaps?
Post #: 27
4/11/2021 11:59:06   
Inferno369
Member

Personally I love a bunch of the items - stormhawk, the skulls, re's, dragon blade. Especially wouldn't call void skulls shields weak, they can get insane if both are stacking them.

To each their own, I guess. Very glad to have another round here.

V

I mean, Dragon Blade is Energy so can be more viable than Peta or better for other options (Peta is also z-token), Skulls have more potency and damage than Leeches/Meteoid (which is rare) and the chi shields are awesome, Stormhawk seems to be 0 proc while Undefeatablade is 10 proc. Re's can be pure Melee whereas Spear is limited to either Ranged or Magic. Void's Awakening Armor is Fire vs Oath's energy...

Also... people like options. Not everything has to stand up one standard or another, people like variety.

< Message edited by Inferno369 -- 4/11/2021 20:49:58 >
AQ  Post #: 28
4/11/2021 20:03:02   
GwenMay
Member

However GPS turns out, I think this release overall had three main problems: overpricing, re-using effects already in game, and not taking into account existing game items.

1. Overpricing: There were two rares and 8 ultra rares (not counting different versions of the same item or GPS). This means that for the vast majority of players, this release is only for big spenders, especially since neither the rare shield or weapon is anything special. Additionally, and this ties into later points, several items are functionally identical or almost so with previous rare GGB items. For example, Re's Annihilator is just Void Spear of War with a melee form and Arcane Cutlass of Nulgath is just taxing cutlass but worse mechanically and in dark.

2. Re-using effects: So many items were just functional re-releases of previous items or very similar. By functional re-release, I mean that mechanically they do the same thing. For example:
-Re's Annihilator is Void Spear of War
-Arcane Cutlass of Nulgath is Taxing Cutlass
-Stormhawk is Undefeatablade
-Dragonblade of Nulgath is Peta Dragon Buster
-Grave's End is End of Graves
-Void Awakener Skull is leeches/cometoid with a chi shield
-Void Awakener armor is just Svaldafri's Oath
Even the most mechanically distinct item, the blind eating spell, is just a new version of status eating (and a worse version, because capped).

3. Not taking into account existing items: GGBs should be fun, unique items with a sprinkling of meta/best-in-slot gear to encourage sales. Players do not like having the option to spend a UR ggb to have different art for an item they already have/can get for gold f2p. For example, warriors should buy Lorekeeper's Oath/HSVV before even thinking of Re's and Eclipsed Dragonlord Sword does Arcane Cutlass of Nulgath's job but just better. On top of that is just the comparisons to past items I listed above.

I would not recommend any of these items to new players or players low on GGBs, and I would only recommend very few to people with a large number of UR ggbs.

How to move forward? I think any part of constructive criticism should include how to improve. I think this release would have been much better received if staff had considered more carefully existing effects in game when choosing which items to crossover, how to price them, and what they should do. If you're going to crossover Grave's End, don't just make it a copy of End of Graves - we do not need three more arts for a simple compression weapon. If you want to crossover Stormhawk or Re's Annihilator, don't just give them the exact effect as a f2p or rare ggb but with an additional melee/ranged/magic mode toggle. If you're going to make an ele-locked armor (Void Awakening Form), don't pick an element where there is already a bloodzerker (for the same price) AND give it a neutral lean on top. If there is already an item with a similar effect in game, either do not give it that effect or pick a different item. We like the crossover artwork, but for the most part not enough to ignore the item effect.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 29
4/11/2021 21:19:29   
ruleandrew
Member
 

 Adventure quest cannot forever create unique weapon properties. The number of unique weapon properties is finite.
AQ  Post #: 30
4/11/2021 21:32:51   
LoreQuester
Member

@GwenMay The problem, in actuality, is power creep. The day staff decided that rewards from every new quest should be MC was the day power creep began to shift dramatically. Sitting in an armor with the highest resistance of its element was the strategy that could get you through 99% of battles (still is, in most cases). Nowadays, you can, and should, fill out all the other characters slots with different builds just to experience how free, MC'ed items in recent years can help you beat up your enemies in increasingly ridiculous ways
Back when Golden Giftbox first rolled out, the art was the main reason why people decided to buy them. Cosplaying as a savage werewolf was the main appeal while gaining some 25% bonus to damage every once in a while was the cherry on top. The appeal of UR weapons back then was that they looked 'cool' and could cover 2 elements at once - something that we now hold as one of the minimal standard for every new reward. As a matter of fact, Gandolphin - one of the most ground breaking item when it first came out, now has to compete against things like dragonlord shield, Geocastellum Robes and baby egg - all of which are items that adventurers can grab without the need of real money. These are some examples of how rare and ultra rare items now have to be 'above' the common mass in order to justify their hidden price tag

@Broccoli Agreed. People can't complain if they knew beforehand that new rares will always be what they don't want
AQ  Post #: 31
4/11/2021 21:48:44   
PD
Member
 

 Honestly if bloodmages, bloodzerkers, subraces and dragonlords were not a thing, we likely would appreciate these items a little more. I actually think the game without those items would be in a fairly nice state of things as those items are what drive the majority of the worst and most problematic interactions in the game. HP/MP costs are relatively "cheap" in the regard that we full heal them every 2 battles and there's a ton of regen/dodge mechanics that allow us to paper over what *should* be fairly considerate costs. And the fact that dragonlord items exist make SP a very cheap resource as well which allows us to continue some of the dumbest interactions possible. If we were back even some time minimally like 5 years ago (before anything like those items I've mentioned) then these items would be things that everyone would be picking up, but those things exist, so yeah.

Besides those 4 things, I actually think we are still in a pretty good state in terms of diversity and optioning. There's been planning for the staff to implement changes to the way that various SP/MP/HP charge items work (soul gauntlet, candy bag, essence orb, pixel ether, etc) that should go a long ways into discouraging many of the most dumb interactions we have available, but those 4 mentioned above are the most egregious things design wise that make it harder to appreciate other things that exist. So a shortlist of things that I think are problematic that the staff are probably well aware of:

Bloodmages
Bloodzerkers
Subraces
Every Dragonlord Items
Resource Items (Gauntlet, Essence Orb, Ether, candy bag, ect)
Essence of Courage
Purple Rain
Wizard Robes (although less so because its only real practical use is for farming which we still want ways to farm fast even afterwards)
Quickcast mechanics (stat boosts and SFP)

Taking those few items and reigning them in properly we should be able to undo a lot of damage that has been done in the last few years and restore diversity.
Post #: 32
4/11/2021 21:53:18   
GwenMay
Member

@LoreQuester

Maybe in the past ggbs were primarily for the art. I hope that is no longer the case, if it ever was. Premium items should be good enough that someone, somewhere, would want to use them for reasons other than "cosplay." Preferably, a premium item should be unique and interesting without granting purchasers too much of an edge over f2p/guardians.

@ruleandrew

Sure they can. There are few limits to human imagination and AQ has been experimenting for almost 20 years now. PCO, nut misc, quadforce, paladin, and backlash items are examples of recent experimentation. I do get your general point that they can't create entirely new effects every week from scratch. However, we don't need entirely new effects, just effects that are different enough to be useful. Two great examples are the new compression weapons, stormshadow and grave's end. I personally love compression weapons and find them very useful when needed. However, there is no reason staff should continue to make more and more compression weapons for element combinations that already have compression weapons - like energy/ice for stormshadow or earth/dark for grave's end. Just pick any element combination that hasn't been done before and go for that. Same for void awakening armor - if it was wind, dark, light, or ice (and FO), it would be a serious option. Dragonblade of Nulgath could've been a tarnished caliburn for dragons, or arcane cutlass have literally any other effect (maybe blind infliction to combo with the spell?)

@Broccoli

I would love to see more FD items too! Hybrid stat items as well, loved spring dryad armor and shield.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 33
4/11/2021 22:09:47   
PD
Member
 

 A little thing about "past* GGB's: At least as far as I can remember, a lot of the oldest GGB's out there did have effects that were considered very "valuable" for their time, or re-hashes of older items. Think of things like Onix Wartexx, Ultra Kreiger Blade, Savage Werewolf and the like. It's hard to imagine but these items were pretty revolutionary for their time because at least back until even a few years ago damage boosts on armors and compression were still considered very valuable and if you could get them, you would have because the lack of easy access to things like mod scrambles (Which are easy to get thanks to things like PCO and rainbow raygun) and just any damage boost was considered valuable. I'm sure a few people remember that at least until a few years ago the average battle looked like this:

For a warrior:
Equip the armor/shield that matched the enemy's element
Equip a defensive misc to minimize risks
Equip a weapon that was good against those enemy's modifiers
Occasionally when you happened to accumulate enough SP over time, use an armor skill maybe 1-2 times a battle if it wasn't already being spent on the misc upkeep.
Attack until the enemy died.

For a mage:
Equip the armor/shield that matched the enemy's element
Equip a defensive misc to minimize risks
Equip a weapon that was good against those enemy's modifiers, maybe a staff like Lightning Rod that would allow you to regen SP
Cast spells until either the enemy died or you ran out of MP
If you were low on MP, you either spent your turn using your staff to attack, a tome to regen, or drink a mana potion so you could resume casting.

On modern quests at least, I still play that style like I do above because the monster pool happens to be fairly diverse so you can't just do a lot of quickcast stacking and then nuke them without serious risk.

As time went on, a lot of these items from GGB's (and some not from) were pretty revolutionary. We started to get items like PVF/SWF which increased our expectations of attack damage. Items like Cutlasses and Sabers which allowed us to actually regen our resources or increase damage even more allowing us to take advantage of that which was previously not really practical. If you look at a set which is built on modern standards like Windter Warrior and Pixel Hero it's hard to remember that these were for their times at least considered extremely good. The former for having really good resistances and a damage boost mechanic behind it which for its day and age was top tier, and the later for adding things like passive defloss and blind. All which today pail in comparison to what we have now.

It's hard to forget but AQ is still balanced around "standard" assumptions like "100% melee" and a 20-turn battle model which of course with all the things that have been thought of are probably in need of being looked at again. What would toning down the shortlist that I listed earlier do? In summary it would likely far reduce the damage ceiling, make much harder the ability to stack multiple interactions, and have players choose more between nuking and being efficient with your gameplay.

< Message edited by PD -- 4/11/2021 22:15:59 >
Post #: 34
4/12/2021 3:00:16   
I Overlord I
Member

quote:

HP/MP costs are relatively "cheap"

While I agree with most of what you're saying, I really wouldn't call the updated HP costs "cheap" at all. They're almost too punishing now, if anything. How many people still run Hyperalphean Dragon Fang? And I distinctly remember people complaining about Mogsterio's "backstab" mechanic after HDF's update, despite the majority of people using him running FD armors. If it's not even sustainable for them...

< Message edited by I Overlord I -- 4/12/2021 3:03:36 >

_____________________________

“Nothing is so common as the wish to be remarkable.”
AQ  Post #: 35
4/12/2021 13:44:17   
PD
Member
 

 In a vacuum I would agree with that. In the scope of all the combos people do, a lot of costs are still negated or outright meaningless. Though any day now we’re going to get those updates to PR, DL and EO and friends so that costs matter again. Though on that subject of HP costs HP regen and heals are still pretty weak compared to SP and MP regens and I’d like to see more HP regens of a more powerful flavor going forward.
Post #: 36
4/12/2021 16:09:58   
RobynJoanne
Member
 

 The issue with HP costs is that they're incredibly punishing when they do apply (Mogsterio's cost can be devastating with bad RNG for example) and practically irrelevant for builds that can circumvent them in some way. These circumventions are facilitated by a bunch of problematic items, and once they're fixed, HP costs may need a second look. Until then, it's a bit of a mess (as is a lot of the balance of the game).
Post #: 37
4/12/2021 17:16:39   
Kurtz96
Member

Any news on when Gnomish Personal Steam Tank is coming? And what rarity they will be?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 38
4/12/2021 17:37:30   
  The Hollow
AQ Lead


 4 versions of the GPS armor have been added to the GGBs!
AQ  Post #: 39
4/12/2021 18:02:15   
Kurtz96
Member

More Ultra Rare boxes
Energy armor, FO/FD with Flamethrower (burn) or biohazard (poison I guess)
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 40
4/12/2021 18:09:34   
Zork Knight
Member

GPS armors aren't loading, neither FO nor FD versions
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 41
4/12/2021 18:12:54   
I Overlord I
Member

14 URs and 2 Rs is a 7:1 ratio... Even accounting for a good portion of them being "clones" of one another, this really is very odd. I don't get it.

However, there is also some good news: we now have 10 (ten) character slots!

quote:

HP regen and heals are still pretty weak compared to SP and MP regens and I’d like to see more HP regens of a more powerful flavor going forward.

Indeed. Werewolf and Mutative's paltry "heals" are still a sore point for me.
AQ  Post #: 42
4/12/2021 18:16:54   
Kurtz96
Member

Will there be info subs for these items?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 43
4/12/2021 18:29:31   
  The Hollow
AQ Lead


 I know the proportion of URs is high folks. I'll look through your suggestions and see where improvements/adjustments can be made!
AQ  Post #: 44
4/12/2021 18:33:24   
Kurtz96
Member

Thanks Hollow
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 45
4/12/2021 19:52:05   
PD
Member
 
quote:

However, there is also some good news: we now have 10 (ten) character slots!


I encourage you to pitch in on the specific thread I've made about this. I know quite a few people in AQ actually don't make new characters because the early game experience is in need of improvement and the effort needed to get to the max from the start is very tough.
Post #: 46
4/12/2021 20:24:16   
Silver Horn
Member

quote:

A 392 SP weapon-based skill on an FD armour that does 0 damage and inflicts a 5 turn 1.7 power poison and a 4 turn -12 def loss to myself.

I retract my earlier statement, if this is what FD oriented GGBs will be like I don't want it.


^^THIS!!!!

It's a 5 turn def loss that stacks and refreshes completely negating its own defensive boost. The poison already deals 0 damage when cast and applies an extremely weak poison and then you get nerfed on top of it. I'm just at a loss for words how bad this is. Especially for an Ultra rare.

I think it's fair to say this has been by far the most disappointing crossover we've ever had.
Post #: 47
4/12/2021 20:40:01   
Sphinx Jevoha
Member


There are so many Ultra-Rares, and only 2 Rares, and 0 Commons! You can view this in 2 different ways:

1. It is discouraging to see that 80%, literally 80%, of new items are Ultra-Rares, meaning F2P players have nothing to choose from.
2. The new items are either clones or just plain weak, so you wouldn't buy it even if it were a Common :P

Trust me guys, you only need 2 items in the whole game to absolutely wreck every opponent you will face:

1. Voltaic Bloodzeeker armour.
2. Voltaic Bloodzeeker blade.

(I feel energy-lock is better than fire-lock because way more enemies are resistant/immune to fire than energy).

1,500 damage per turn against 100% resistance, 700 damage per turn against 30% resistance. And this is without Misc, pets, guests, Lucky Strikes, etc.

It simply doesn't get better than the Bloodzeekers!

Post #: 48
4/12/2021 20:53:43   
Deaf of Destiny
Member

@Sphinx Jevoha I've been test this new GPS FO Flamethrown and it actually worth.
but make sure that you gonna use Fire Talon "imbue" on that bigboom
Check my two of link 'GIF' here you go
Flamethrown
BigBoom
Post #: 49
4/12/2021 21:02:34   
Sphinx Jevoha
Member


@Deaf of Destiny That is indeed a lot of damage! The problem, I think, is with the FD version with its weak poison and self-crippling Defence Loss. You mean FO version is OP and FD version is junk? But they are both Ultra-Rares, so that is weird.
Post #: 50
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