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=DF= April 9th Design Notes: Wanted: Tizheruk!

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4/9/2021 20:32:14   
  Peachii
Clairvoyant!
quote:


Verlyrus:
Wanted: Tizheruk!

Hey there, heroes!

Another odd note has appeared on the Serene Inn's Odd Jobs board! Seems that something is hunting in the swamps. Something... terrifying!



The Tizheruk awaits!

You can access this week's quest: "Tizheruk" from the Odd Jobs board in Book 3 Falconreach's Serene Inn.

Also, the Togsday quest has been added to Book 3 Ash's Letters.

Coming next week: Book 3's main story returns as the heroes find themselves ever closer to the Doomwood rift!


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Tags: Verlyrus
DF AQW  Post #: 1
4/9/2021 21:25:24   
Ventusx
Member
 
spoiler:

While I couldn't beat the boss I did find something interesting. If you go back to the first screen and to the left like you would be abandoning the quest you end up in a situation similar to the lost woods in the Legend of Zelda. By going up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right (AKA the konami code) you end up in the text adventure setup. (if you don't know what i mean go play the fear quest in the Thorns saga)
Once you get there you're recognized as K, the guy who keeps posting on the job board about these strange monsters, and it asks for a password. I bet everything I own that the password has to do with a cipher on one of the drops from the quest, because there were ciphers on drops from both the hidebehind and drop bears quests. If anyone finds it and can post the password that would be great.
Post #: 2
4/9/2021 23:10:01   
LoreQuester
Member

Now this was a pleasant surprise! I went into the quest, expecting to whoop the boss's hiney like any other I've faced before, and got mine kicked in the rear instead! It's not every day that my own favourite strategy is used against me, and I couldn't be happier!

Regarding tips to beat this boss, outdodging it would be the obvious solution. Using dodge gears while sitting in Ninja armor and spam the defensive skills in a sustainable order is enough to win you the fight. I didn't pay attention to the boss's skill rotation but I am fairly certain that you can only attack Once every 4 or 5 turns. In hindsight, I should have put all my points into end and cha so that I could focus completely on defending and leave the offense to Draco instead. Be warned, this boss hits like a truck and it is almost impossible to hit it before you are allowed to (even the +100 bonus from Draco couldn't help me scratch the thing's hide). It also has respectable Hp so a combination of Draco's Scout and any bth you get from your armor's skill might still not be enough to kill it before it kills you

I have also just realized that there is some other secret shop and maybe I should have waited for the pedia to update before doing the quest myself... Ah well, more hydra whooping later it is
AQ  Post #: 3
4/9/2021 23:57:25   
Kurtz96
Member

Chaosweaver trivializes the fight. Gambit plus dragon scout gives you 300 bonus (plus your normal bonus from gear) lets you kill the enemy in 3 turns.

< Message edited by Kurtz96 -- 4/9/2021 23:58:03 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 4
4/10/2021 0:00:34   
LoreQuester
Member

True. I just saw some videos with doomknights and CW and they really show why they are the OP tier
AQ  Post #: 5
4/10/2021 0:00:46   
docblade
Member

Ugh. What do you next? A boss with +2k all resist wich loses 1 point all resist every three turns while buffing himself with 5 bonus every time he hits you? A boss that can only be beaten between 2 and 3 pm on a wednesday? A boss you can only hit after yelling Cysero three times while standing on one leg? If it goes on like that, the times i can play Dragon Fable casually are finally over. Well, another boss for the "unbeatable" stack.
DF MQ  Post #: 6
4/10/2021 0:01:25   
Vaalirus
Member

spoiler:



After finally getting through the puzzle,

The presence of the feargeist pet would seem to indicate that all the creature's from the hidebehind, the drop bear, and now the Tizheruk was somehow manufactured by Phobeist or someone, this 'K' person, that knew her as I don't see why she'd send out warning notes for someone to take those monsters on unless she wanted people to go out looking for it for testing.

If Phobeist was responsible for their creation it would appear that she lost a fair degree of control over the creation of the monsters to do whatever she was attempting to accomplish with this artifact. Which I have to wonder then if the only reason why we started seeing these creatures was that she needed more of them to protect her from I guess whatever she's doing. I also wonder what the two monsters: the Burrunjor and the Black Shuck were though I'm certain we'll see them in the future.
DF  Post #: 7
4/10/2021 0:11:40   
TFS
Helpful!
quote:

Ugh. What do you next? A boss with +2k all resist wich loses 1 point all resist every three turns while buffing himself with 5 bonus every time he hits you? A boss that can only be beaten between 2 and 3 pm on a wednesday? A boss you can only hit after yelling Cysero three times while standing on one leg? If it goes on like that, the times i can play Dragon Fable casually are finally over. Well, another boss for the "unbeatable" stack.


You're supposed to burst the boss every 4th turn, while it's vulnerable; if you don't feel like doing that you can use DoTs without hitcheck (such as those of Necromancer or Icebound Revenant) to damage it through the shield anyway.
DF  Post #: 8
4/10/2021 1:03:44   
BasedAksu
Member

quote:

Ugh. What do you next? A boss with +2k all resist wich loses 1 point all resist every three turns while buffing himself with 5 bonus every time he hits you? A boss that can only be beaten between 2 and 3 pm on a wednesday? A boss you can only hit after yelling Cysero three times while standing on one leg? If it goes on like that, the times i can play Dragon Fable casually are finally over. Well, another boss for the "unbeatable" stack.


Instead of complaining about a side story boss this way. Why don't you actually provide proper feedback and criticism? Stuff that Verlyrus could consider when he makes another boss as such?

Personally the boss isn't even all that hard. TFS provided some excellent examples for you to utilize as well. Combat is evolving in DF constantly, we shouldn't have to easy fights all the time or use things like V1 to fight.

Besides, the reward mandates the "challenge" this boss poses anyways. A +10 Necklace that isn't a DM Necklace that can be obtained any time isn't something to scoff at. Verly's trying to put proper alternatives in the game while still maintaining somewhat of a challenge on them as well. If you think this challenge is really that hard, personally I wouldn't recommend looking at the Inn either, lmfao.
Post #: 9
4/10/2021 1:11:27   
Zealwrath
Member

Ok ok didnt expect the quest board missions to comeback in a while. good thing too since i just got epoch today so i can use this as a test run to get a feel of it.
DF AQW  Post #: 10
4/10/2021 3:11:25   
joglaze
Member

I didn't think I would be able to max out my All Resistance until the next war, but Verly to the rescue! While the necklace is certainly no DM Necklace, I'll take what I can get. Thanks for the update!

The boss monster is also quite interesting, love the way it just swims under the bridge during the whole quest. Boss isn't the most difficult thing in the world, but it was very interesting nonetheless.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 11
4/10/2021 3:19:13   
Plutonium
Member

spoiler:

Can someone please explain the Hint to me?
DF  Post #: 12
4/10/2021 3:52:41   
DragonKeeper
Member

I was able to defeat the Tizheruk monster with Master Soulweaver. It is a great quest.
DF  Post #: 13
4/10/2021 4:01:39   
AstralCodex
Member

I really enjoyed the quest - great ambiance, an interesting boss fight, and a great reward to boot.


@Plutonium (Spoilers for the quest, of course)
spoiler:


If you mean the secret area to the left, you're supposed to enter the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right b a start). Fighting the monster lets you get a secret pet as well. If you're more of a visual person, you can check out my short video guide.


< Message edited by AstralCodex -- 4/10/2021 5:13:25 >
DF  Post #: 14
4/10/2021 4:04:53   
ergotth
AQW Lore-titician


 While the boss seems beatable at some levels, because of power scale, players close to lv 70 will have a REALLY hard time. And since the boss doesn't give you the heal option, you better find the heal pad if you are willing for multiple tries. But still, the mechanic isn't much of an issue when you don't take into account the ABSURD damage it dealt at my level. 600-700 per hit. And alone I faced this boss with 4000 health. So... survive 4 or 5 turns avoiding 600-700 damage and burst 4000 health in one turn...... Yea, not happening. One class reccomended is Necro because of unnavoidable DoT, one turn of stun (that can backfire) and the shields. Thats fantastic for survivability, but Necro lacks the firepower to burst the health before it runs out of death-avoiding skills, unless I can raise a giant dracolich, my chipping dots and puny skeletons won't do the trick. And if I need DmK or Chaosweaver to gamble a massive 4k burst in one go or die, something is simply WRONG here. I respect every single boss in the Inn at the Edge of Time, but this sidequest doesn't really warrant something so obnoxious and in a story and worldbuilding point of view, irrelevant. This is just a simple release to entertain us while they work at their show-stoppers and I'm glad I won't have to suffer too much of it to proceed with Dragonfable's amazing storytelling. Don't be afraid to rebalance things for casual players, if the hardcore players complain, throw the broken version at the Inn at the Edge of Time (do we have a shorter name? The Inn? IatEoT? Just curious) for their own enjoyment.
DF AQW  Post #: 15
4/10/2021 4:36:52   
AstralCodex
Member

@Ergoth, many lower level players have beaten the boss, some as low as level 12, but certainly many at level 70. Others have even beaten the boss NDA with suboptimal gear. The key is either to use a defensive DoT class like Necromancer or to use a burst class like Baltael Soulweaver, and to know the boss's 3 turn shielding - 1 turn vulnerable rotation.

Since you used Necromancer, I'll talk a bit more about how Necromancer beats up this guy. First, with the DEX changes, Necromancer should definitely use DEX to juice up its powerful DoTs.

In addition its defensive tankiness and two no-hitcheck DoTs, (one of which does 5% of your HP per turn!), Necro's autostun also can disable the shield, letting you burst. For example, opening Shield > Seed > Boon > Terror > Raise > Final does almost a third of his HP with a DEX/END build. During this 5 turn sequence, the Tizheruk gets to attack 3 times into a shield, gets stunned for a turn without hitcheck, before finally getting to act again. After that, you can recover HP while doing massive damage with Life Tap, survive for longer with Shroud and another use of Shield, and then set up another Seed > Boon > Terror > Raise to finish off the overgrown eel. If you have a fed pet dragon, this becomes even more lopsided, since you can shield two of Tizheruk's attacks on demand. Failing that, Stan (for more damage) or Twilly (for more survivability) are the best pets.

If you want to instead focus on bursting it, then pick a class with massive 1 turn burst (Baltael Soulweaver is a great free option, DoomKnight, Kathool, certain epochs, etc are great paid options), and just burst it in 1-2 burst cycles.

I also disagree with your implied assumption that difficult gameplay detracts from storytelling. If anything, the boss's mechanic adds to its flavor. I'll also add that this is an optional sidestory boss, which often tend to be harder than the generic story bosses. If it is, as you put "irrelevant", then surely not much is lost if some players struggle a bit to beat it?

Instead of spending so much effort on a "let's nerf this boss I can't beat" rant on Twitter and another forums, it probably would have been more constructive if you asked around for some advice on how to beat the boss. The fight has been done by many players, with and without DA, at level 90 and at level 25 or even 12. Just because a boss has a mechanic that needs to be played around, doesn't mean the boss needs to be nerfed.

(EDIT: also, the boss doesn't do 700 damage a turn at level 70 - if it is, you're probably bringing guests. Guests don't help much with this fight, so I'd stay away from them to reduce variance.)


< Message edited by AstralCodex -- 4/10/2021 5:03:18 >
DF  Post #: 16
4/10/2021 4:38:49   
Plutonium
Member

@Astral: Thanks. Third time completing this quest (just wanting in on the secret room and prize this time around)
DF  Post #: 17
4/10/2021 5:36:28   
Dratomos
Helpful!


 This was a very surprising quest. I was expecting something like the Drop Bears one and I was pleasantly surprised. Moving in the swamp and seeing the Tizhurek taking enemies was a wonderful addition and showcases how far DF has come with it's art style when I started it in 09. And how full of surprises the quest was.

As for the boss itself, it was challenging and I did not expect that. I managed to beat with Epoch but Technomancer and Dragon Scout were even better choice.

As for guide to Techno, just stack All and Bonus. And don't heal your mana and defeat almost every enemy in the area and you will deal more damage to the boss. You can get +200 Bonus from Techno and your dragon, so the rest ~100 is up to your equipment and stat training. With Techno and your Dragon, you are shielded for 4 turns and when Tizhurek comes from the shadows, you can finish it off with Mana Blade and Elemental Supernova.
DF AQW  Post #: 18
4/10/2021 7:49:44   
spirit of greed
Member

So long we got hidebehind, drop bear and now this. I really really hope these quests lead to something big and not just one shots.
Like Atgasedd was. The funny thing is these low effort (compared to main story quests) Lore related quests are more exciting to me than the main story LOL

As for the boss it's challenging maybe not unbeatable but it's hard and i know many people keep saying to stop whining but a lot of people wants easy or normal fights and this one certainly wasn't that. So when people can't beat certain bosses (bosses got more hardcore in these years) they stop supporting the game which is bad for everyone. I think the best solution would be to give an easy and a normal (or hard in this case) fight with bosses like these so everyone would be satisfied.

< Message edited by spirit of greed -- 4/10/2021 7:58:54 >
DF AQW  Post #: 19
4/10/2021 8:18:57   
Vikken101
Member

@spirit of greed
In regards to difficulty, I think it's completely fair game for the devs to experiment with difficulty in the side stories, especially a super optional side story like this. The main story is where Verly is a lot more forgiving when it comes to general difficulty and nerfs since he wants even nda's to be able to complete it. I don't think anyone that really cares about the game is gonna stop playing it because of this release. There is really no point in adding a normal/extreme difficulty option to a non-important boss like this. If you experiment a bit with your class/gear and learn when the boss is vulnerable to getting hit, anyone should be able to beat it.

In regards to lore, its already becoming very lore relevant to other side stories and has implications for the future that's for sure. Much more than the Swordhaven quest board at least.

< Message edited by Vikken101 -- 4/10/2021 8:22:47 >
Post #: 20
4/10/2021 8:35:21   
spirit of greed
Member

Even if it's a side quest i still don't like how others can't finish them but it's not just side missions: the corrupted dragon amulet, the ice elemental which attacked ateala and the doom enemy from myalos mission they were all hard and main story bosses.

I know others like a little challenge but there's the Inn challenges that's what those are for.

Anyway i liked this quest a lot and i hope we get more like these in the future.

< Message edited by spirit of greed -- 4/10/2021 8:37:03 >
DF AQW  Post #: 21
4/10/2021 8:45:57   
Vikken101
Member

@spirit of greed
By main story, I and the devs mean the Rose questline, Calamity and Maleurous are not that. Doom Amulet is meant to be an end of storyline boss, so ofc its gonna be a bit difficult and the Shadowscythe Seed from Maleurous is not that challenging. You bring up Cryohem from the main story, and that a perfect example of a main story boss Verly nerfed and then later gave multiple difficulties like I first mentioned, since he wants it to be completable for virtually everyone. Btw, the Inn of Time is not there for a "little challenge", but for major challenges. The Df story should have a "little challenge" and expect the player to adapt and beat it.

< Message edited by Vikken101 -- 4/10/2021 8:57:51 >
Post #: 22
4/10/2021 8:54:27   
Khoifish25
Member
 

 This new quest is certainly quite a challenge, and something I didn't expect in the slightest. But thanks to the tips from guys like you, I managed to beat it using Necromancer and DoTing the boss to death. It wasn't easy at all though (I had to use all my potions just to survive the blasts) and I was lucky that the one auto stun I needed to get to beat the boss while at very low health worked out since during the battle I had 2 FAILED auto stun attempts and almost got my butt handed to me each time afterwards. So I understand players who are surprised by this sudden change to difficulty and required preparation compared to other quests. But I can still say that the quest is doable if you use the right class and strategies and with a bit of RNGesus on your side. Hopefully, you have better luck than I did if you are using Necromancer and are trying to use the Auto stun skill.

P.S: If you are using the Necromancer and are facing the Feargeist, DO NOT use the Heal on it as it will heal the monster too. And with your Aura already healing it a little bit each turn, you probably don't want to heal it some more.
Post #: 23
4/10/2021 9:16:35   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*


 This is a good repeat because it drops a lot of story crumbs and offers a useful new necklace, 10 all 3 immo, unlike the -7 immo DDN.
What I don't like about this release is that the boss is designed like an inn boss, with 300 immo [EDIT: 150] and 300 mpm but is in a regular zone. [The problem with 340 MPM is that it makes people think it's a Chaosweaver check when it should actually be like 600 MPM]
The boss obviously isn't hard to beat, as people have demonstrated with low level necromancers, but it has the kind of stuff that makes less knowledgeable players give up immediately because zomg 2000 crit + can't hit it.
I'd actually remove the stun resist or make the out-of-shadow turn more vulnerable (extra -allres) or something. Just because everything in the inn should have 300 immo now doesn't mean every boss outside should as well, especially if this is to give people a 10 all necklace before making them commit to DDN.
There's an opposite problem where monsters like Cryohem and Siofra get completely gutted, but oh well.
I have some grievances with the spoiler and other CHA pets, but that's probably another post.

EDIT: Also, making the Shadow effect 3 turns instead of 1+1+1 would instantly make it less confusing.

< Message edited by The ErosionSeeker -- 4/10/2021 20:29:30 >
DF AQW  Post #: 24
4/10/2021 12:26:26   
shrike
Member

Throwing in my own 2 cents here.

I overall really liked this release, and not just for the tidbits of story that are finally starting to justify all my theories. The whole flavour and mystery of the Hidebehind series is great, and I think Inanitas has done an incredible job with the atmosphere and easter eggs of this quest. The drop is also really good!

For the challenge people find in this boss, I honestly don't see an issue with it. The whole theme of this quest is that the Tizheruk is a mysterious monster terrifying all the other monsters around, and you don't know anything about its origins. It doing a lot of damage makes sense when you consider it instantly oneshots the other enemies in the quest when it drags monsters into the water, and I really think the shadow mechanic helps drive in just how mysterious and unknown everything about the situation is. The fight isn't impossible by any means, but the fact that the monster hits like a truck and has a mysterious shadow power really helps drive home the whole atmosphere of the quest, and just how scared everyone should be of the Tizheruk.

< Message edited by shrike -- 4/10/2021 12:33:23 >
DF  Post #: 25
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