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Suggestions: Stat points, upgrades to elemental unity defender, and other

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4/19/2021 13:16:45   
Cyrenius
Member

5 free stat points at level 1 (maximizes to 450 at level 90)

Alexander’s final weapon, when his saga completes (and I looked it up, it isn’t, unless it’s been changed lately), has a 20% chance to inflict a -30% weakness to fire for 5 turns.


< Message edited by Cyrenius -- 5/1/2021 21:57:47 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 1
4/19/2021 19:27:18   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

 Simple answers for your suggestions:

1. Bonus 5 stat points, more than feasible.
2. Slotting outside of weapons? Unless you want to scramble the power balance all the more than it already is. Outside of that, the fact that only two item sets not tied to a class have been released that have set bonus interactions is a sign of the intricacies involved in programming them to work as they should.
3. EUD needs no further upgrades right now as it is in line with more modern trinkets. 500 DMs per upgrade is also not everybody's ballgame.
4. Your merge item proposal, outlandish still. DF has maintained thematic mannerisms in merge items, and I don’t see how those fit with each other. And I do remember you getting that same response from other forum members when you tried a similar set of suggestions not too long ago.


< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 4/19/2021 19:39:21 >
DF AQW  Post #: 2
4/20/2021 18:33:18   
Dratomos
Helpful!


 No.
DF AQW  Post #: 3
4/20/2021 21:58:18   
Cyrenius
Member

Good points, I'll take off everything but the 5 stat points and EUD upgrade. The others are a bit over-the-top. Those two I think are reasonable.

The 5 stat points should be implemented though to even out stats though.

And the EUD upgrades would be nice (not required, but nice) for those of us that do grind defender's medals.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 4
4/23/2021 23:11:50   
Cyrenius
Member

Alright, I’m sure I’m going to receive a few negative reactions from this, although we need a better cloak or wings. All cloaks / wings are relatively easy to obtain, and let’s be honest, we rarely use Wings of the Unraveller III anymore, it’s always either Chaosweaver’s Cloak III for the +22 INT / STR / DEX or Wings of the 1,000 Flames / Infernos for the +15 All. Every other piece of gear is in balance and the BiS for overall / defensive gear is adequately challenging to obtain for the most part, although for cloaks, the BiS for offensive, defensive, and overall are all too easy (in my opinion), and there doesn't seem to be enough of a balance since we don't use the overall BiS much anymore since we're always using the BiS offensive (Chaosweaver's) or BiS defensive (Wings of 1,000 Flames / Infernos), unless we're healing, where we use Elpis, or for Doom Knights, Hidebehind for Doom Barrier.

This cloak will require to obtain:

Wings of the Unraveller III
Chaosweaver’s Cloak III
Elpis
Wings of the Thousand Infernos or Wings of the Thousand Flames
Relic Death Knight Cloak
The Hidebehind VIII
Wings of Mahanaem III
Wings of Yaphael III
Wings of Ezrajal III
Wings of Samaranth III
Incomplete Lagohm Backpiece

There should be three versions of this cloak:

Doom Knight Version:
Block +10, Dodge +10, Parry +10, Crit +12, Magic Def +5, Pierce Def +5, Melee Def +5, WIS +7, END +7, CHA +7, LUK + 7, INT +15, DEX +15, STR +15, Bonus +10, All +15

Dragon Amulet Version:
Block +10, Dodge +10, Parry +10, Crit +10, Magic Def +5, Pierce Def +5, Melee Def +5, WIS +6, END +6, CHA +6, LUK + 6, INT +12, DEX +12, STR +12, Bonus +10, All +15

Free Player Version:
Block +10, Dodge +10, Parry +10, Crit +10, Magic Def +5, Pierce Def +5, Melee Def +5, WIS +5, END +5, CHA +5, LUK + 5, INT +10, DEX +10, STR +10, Bonus +10, All +15

As level caps increase, there should be upgradeable versions, upgradeable at the Black Market Moglin for free.


< Message edited by Cyrenius -- 4/24/2021 11:05:33 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 5
4/24/2021 0:05:27   
Kyros123
Member
 
quote:

You must be a Doom Knight to unlock the merge shop to begin with


Yeah, I don't think locking overpowered gear behind a paywall is gonna make people very happy. No thanks, bro.
Post #: 6
4/24/2021 0:31:39   
Plutonium
Member

quote:

This new epic cloak should be extremely challenging to obtain. You must be a Doom Knight to unlock the merge shop to begin with (I feel you must have been with the game for at least 2 years and supported the game with $85+ to have access to this powerful a cloak, although I don't think it should be P2W, just be Doom Knight to access)


*insert eyeroll here* Really dude. Your suggestions always give doing the absoulute most.

< Message edited by Plutonium -- 4/24/2021 0:32:13 >
DF  Post #: 7
4/24/2021 1:06:00   
Cyrenius
Member

Alright, I'll accept the criticism, I'll take out the doom knight requirement. I guess that is a bit much. Although I will suggest it being Dragon Amulet to equip. $20 paywall is more reasonable than $85.

As for the cloak being overpowered, I don't think it is for all that I'm suggesting to unlock it. I may tweak it a little, add even more requirements to make it even more difficult to obtain, maybe reduce some stats SLIGHTLY (except All, it's staying at 15), although I'm keeping it the BiS overall cloak in the game, not for offense, but for overall.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 8
4/24/2021 4:00:58   
Plutonium
Member

quote:

Although I will suggest it being Dragon Amulet to equip. $20 paywall is more reasonable than $85.

As for the cloak being overpowered, I don't think it is for all that I'm suggesting to unlock it. I may tweak it a little, add even more requirements to make it even more difficult to obtain, maybe reduce some stats SLIGHTLY (except All, it's staying at 15), although I'm keeping it the BiS overall cloak in the game, not for offense, but for overall.


or just cut them out entirely and maybe don't introduce the suggestion of astronomical items that no one, other than yourself, would want to achieve. Plus, a paywall of $20 down from $85, how...gracious of you.
DF  Post #: 9
4/24/2021 5:24:39   
Dratomos
Helpful!
quote:

Wings of the Unraveller III
Chaosweaver’s Cloak III
Elpis
Wings of the Thousand Infernos or Wings of the Thousand Flames
Relic Death Knight Cloak
The Hidebehind VIII
Wings of Mahanaem III
Wings of Yaphael III
Wings of Ezrajal III
Wings of Samaranth III
7,000 Defender’s Medals
5,000 Proclamation Medals (SH)
5,000 Proclamation Medals (DW)
1 Ancient Dragon Scales (from Inevitable Equilibrium)
1 Dragonscale Necklace (from Ice and Dragons)
5 Timewarped Trophys
Incomplete Lagohm Backpiece

Stats at level 90 will be:
Block +10, Dodge +10, Parry +10, Crit +12, Magic Def +5, Pierce Def +5, Melee Def +5, WIS +7, END +7, CHA +7, LUK + 7, INT +15, DEX +15, STR +15, Bonus +10, All +15

As level caps increase, there should be upgradeable versions, available for increase to the maximum level cap for 1,000 Defender's Medals at said same shop. Level 90 will be the base level.


This is just very random list of items and resources that have nothing in common with. What would the name of this cape be? What would it look like?

And those stats are just no... There is nothing balanced about this cape and the requirements are too big. The reason why devs lowered requirements to DM items is due that the amount of farming they required wouldn't be so big. Your single item has the same problem and DF currently doesn't need this kind of cape.

I get that you have farmed thousands of DM and PM but that doesn't mean devs should release an atrocious OP item with atrocius requirements.
DF AQW  Post #: 10
4/24/2021 10:38:50   
Cyrenius
Member

Alright, I can agree with you on the fact the list of items to obtain is ludicrous. I intended it to be extremely difficult to achieve. I don't have all the necessary items! Although I would farm them if such a cloak were available. I do have the 7,000 defender's medals though. As far as requiring a dragon amulet, no, I don't think that's ridiculous, although a slightly less powerful cloak should be available for free players.

Maybe the cloak does need to be toned down a bit. I'm not sure how much, although it needs to replace BOTH the Wings of the Unraveler III and the Wings of the 1,000 Flames / Infernos, since the Wings of the Unraveller III has become obsolete since we pretty much always use either Chaosweaver's Cloak III for offense or Wings of the 1,000 Flames / Infernos for defense now, so it does need to contain 15 all, and equal to or slightly higher than the stats than the stats on the Wings of the Unraveller III, although not as high as Chaosweaver's Cloak III, I agree if you use its offense stats you should pay a penalty defensivewise. I think my suggested cloak's stats are more or less balanced, maybe slightly lower INT / DEX / STR is in order to make it so.

Maybe it should be obtained from the Inn at the Edge of Time from the most challenging fight we've seen yet. Until then, I reduced the requirements. I also tweaked the versions, there are now three versions.

< Message edited by Cyrenius -- 4/24/2021 11:17:15 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 11
4/24/2021 14:13:04   
Dratomos
Helpful!


 This whole "new BiS" -cape idea is just bad. We don't need it. Especially the required items. There is too much of them and it feels like you picked random capes from Inn to combine to a super cape. No. Like Laeon val Observis said, usually in DF when you combine items to form new ones, there is something that connects them in the Lore or in the description of the said resources (like Baby Chimera for example). The capes you provided are very odd choices in DF lore. Why and how would we be able to combine these different capes? How could a relic DeathKnight cape be able to combine with Exalted Armory or with items from soulweaving mythos. There is no reason to in lore. As you have seen in Arena rewards, they usually have connection to fights and fit within the lore

Wings of the Unraveler is still a viable cape in Inn. There is no need for it to have a better option. It's not obselete and not every Inn player has the DC for Chaosweaver cloak or want to farm for the Wings of the 1,000 Flames.

All these suggestions sounds like they would maybe fit with AQW. But that doesn't mean they fit with DF. There is no reason to make DF have as much as farming as AQW has.

And hey, we might get a new BiS -cape during this year's Anniversary month, like we got Ancient Dragonlord Helm last year.

< Message edited by Dratomos -- 4/24/2021 14:27:06 >
DF AQW  Post #: 12
4/29/2021 16:54:25   
Cyrenius
Member

I just thought of a few new ideas! (I know what you’re thinking, “Oh, God, here he goes again…”)

Alexander’s final weapon, when his saga completes (and I looked it up, it isn’t, unless it’s been changed lately), has a 20% chance to inflict a -30% weakness to fire for 5 turns.

Ash’s viability as a guest should be directly related to how much you have leveled him during his saga. He no longer scales to level. Likewise, his damage should now equal to how well you have equipped him.

Ash’s level cap in Arch Knight should be increased to 90, with new level 90 gear.

Ash should be able to grind defender’s medals in Arch Knight during wars in order to upgrade UAE, necklaces, rings, and belts (assuming he can access normal Falconreach with the griffon, if he can’t, he should be able to have the defender’s shop in Falconreach open to him for not just the defender’s medal shop but also stat training for free players)

Immobility should be POSITIVE instead of negative on level 90 versions of Defender’s Dragon necklaces, rings, and belts.

Not giving up on the cloak, but introducing a new way to obtain it and tweaking the stats. There should be a new Inn at the Edge of Time challenge, Ultra Akriloth, under “Lost Fables”. One boss. Sounds easy, yes? Nay. He should have 50,000+ HP, and this fight will be much more difficult than the Ice and Dragons challenge. It still should take 30 minutes – 1 hour to complete the way I have it planned. If you do not have Fire resistance stacked to near max, you pretty much have no chance to survive the way I have this planned. This fight will be designed to be easiest for Doom Knights with (and this will be the one fight that allows guests, albeit only one) an Icebound Revenant Ash guest, fully equipped.

The dragon should have a 50% chance of dropping an Ultra Akriloth Scale and a 50% chance of dropping a Frozen Claymore.

There should be only one version cloak, level 90, and it will require 1 Ultra Akriloth Scale, 1 Wings of the Unraveller III, and either a Wings of the 1,000 Flames or Wings of the 1,000 Infernos, and it have as stats:

Block +10, Dodge +10, Parry +10, Crit +10, Magic Def +5, Pierce Def +5, Melee Def +5, WIS +7, END +7, CHA +7, LUK + 7, INT +10, DEX +10, STR +10, Bonus +10, All +15
Basically, it will be only +1 better in INT, DEX, STR, WIS, END, and CHA than the Wings of the Unraveller III and imbuing it with the Wings the 1,000 Flames’s / Wings of the 1,000 Infernos’s All resistance.

The Frozen Claymore should be a cosmetic weapon that has a 33% chance to inflict -50% ice resistance (no hit check) for 10 turns on any hit (auto-attack or special), and if a special is 4 hits for example, that’s 4 chances for it to hit. This would replace the Vanilla Ice Katana, as it is superior, although not quite as overpowered as the old (rare) Frozen Claymore and Vanilla Ice Katana were except for the higher chance to hit (they were -100% ice resistance for 99 turns, but only had a 5% chance to hit)

Defeating the Ultra Akriloth 10 times should earn you a badge as well.

And that’s all for now, lol


EDIT: Altered the loot table of the Ultra Akriloth and its merge requirements

< Message edited by Cyrenius -- 4/29/2021 17:02:19 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 13
4/29/2021 18:23:37   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

 @above *sighs in disbelief* while I’ve had my tolerances for outlandish proposals, how about drawing some lines here apart from the usual constructive criticisms.
The only one that I see most feasible here is the changes to the Alexander saga weapon. The rest?

1. Archknight saga is NO WHERE on the devs priorities right now, plus is crazy bugged. No need to melt brains on such an old feature that barely needs any attention. All it was meant for was to see some growth in one of our allies, which can be easily done with other means such as Nythera’s Dragonmage Saga.
2. Ultra Akriloth? Please, he’s barely what you can define as a “challenge” by the game’s modern standards. That alone barely incentivizes anything for him to be slain multiple times.
3. For the Frozen Claymore, you’re showing a lack of grasp towards game features. There’s a reason that weapon special slotting was added earlier this year. Edit: Another thing to note is you might want to do a double review about the Fire War/Orb saga before making claims that FC is superior to VIK.
4. For your aqw-grade outlandish cape, I’ll say something that I’ve been repressing: “Enough is enough.” One thing I quickly learned as a fellow multi-AE game player is not to try applying the norms of one game on another.
5. For the DM accessories, no need to try to make them into Inn accessory rip-offs. Each of those accessories (DM and Inn rewards) are good for certain facets of gameplay, so no need to narrow diversity for the sake of what I feel is an attempt at inclusivity.



< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 4/29/2021 19:27:11 >
DF AQW  Post #: 14
5/1/2021 15:26:16   
Dratomos
Helpful!


 Your suggestions are starting to be so outlandish. We don't want them to become banned again and this really doesn't help.

ArchKnight saga is a charming coming-to-age story for our favourite Dragonblade. It's buggy yes, but it is also a DA-only feature. It would need a HUGE overhaul and it doesn't require it. Sure, it's buggy, but it is what it is. It DOESN'T need wars, lvl cap increased to 90(???) or anything else. It isn't supposed to do that, as it doesn't fit in Ash's story. He isn't a Hero (yet), nor main character in DF, so no. Absolutely no.

DM items don't need any kind of buff. They are already BIS. Just because you cannot use them in every situation, doesn't mean they need to be buffed. So no. Absolutely no.

Ash as a guest doesn't need a buff. Doesn't fit in to the story, nor with his character. So no. Absolutely no.

And we already have Ultra Akriloth...

And again. Why. Does. Wings of the Unraveller III. Need. To. Be. Combined. With. Something. Entirely. Else. To. Make. A. New. OP. BIS. Cape. That. Doesn't. Fit. In. To. The. Lore.

DF AQW  Post #: 15
5/1/2021 21:56:59   
Cyrenius
Member

Alright, I get it. Of my suggestions, only the 5 stat point increase and the weapon from the Alexander saga giving the 20% chance to give -30 fire resistance for 5 turns are reasonable. Got it. Edited my first post to ONLY include said TWO items.

Although other than a level 80, 85, and 90 version of the EUD (which perhaps you're right, not needed right now), I was only suggesting, for the necklaces, rings, and belts, the negative immobility on the level 90 version be changed to positive. Perhaps getting rid of immobility on all defender's medal items is most practical. That would solve the problem altogether.

The cloak, I understand, not needed in any form. I figured a slight upgrade for major stats and a major upgrade to all with a REALLY challenging fight from Wings of the Unraveller III would make it a worthwhile reward.

Ash as a guest based on how you leveled and upgraded him in ArchKnight, again, maybe it was not as good an idea as I thought it was. I thought it would be a neat feature, a nice bonus to the game, but perhaps it is not.

Will level 90 be effectively the perpetual level cap, at least for most gear (I know it's possible to achieve level 91 and higher, and even easier after they removed the EXP and gold cap per day), or there inevitably be a day when they increase it again? I believe the latter. Sure, level 90's probably been the longest level cap we've ever had (I've been here since it's been 22 or 29, pretty much the beginning).

"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain, Nirvana. I'd rather make suggestions in the spirit of improving the Dragonfable community and people hate me and the majority my suggestions and have a few they do like and have a chance of getting implemented than not think of any suggestions at all and therefore have none that have a chance of getting implemented due to my silence. I can ask the community what they think of my suggestions and they can tell me.

Besides, I don't think suggestions are getting banned again. :P Artix Entertainment likes to hear from their community suggestions to improve their games. This is their main channel if not their only channel to get direct suggestions.

< Message edited by Cyrenius -- 5/1/2021 22:35:46 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 16
5/2/2021 0:20:46   
Ultima29
Member

@Cyrenius

Your suggestions are really repetitive, it's always some AQW level merge requirements into a broken item that greatly unbalances the game. Then you edit your post to hide all the garbage ideas and then post them again a few months later. They may be in the "spirit of improving DF" but none of the outlandish things you say will improve the game. They simply aren't worth the dev time to even look at much less implement. From your posts it is easy to see that you lack understanding of the games mechanics and from that lack of understanding you have no idea what is reasonable to suggest. You should probably try and learn the game more and then think from a balance point of view the next time you think about suggesting the same broken items next month.
Post #: 17
5/2/2021 4:55:03   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

 @Cy, as much as I would want to try to commend your dreamy-eyed visions as your supposed takes to make this game better, that’s just it. They are just your 50 cents that no amount of quoting someone who has made an impact on you would defend (If you really understand this, don’t even dare to respond to anybody with a “just an opinion” schtick after this). They failed to show the groundedness and the capacity to stop and think where things are off. As a veteran who has grown up with this as his main game and as a fellow veteran AE game player, perhaps you should think of these before riling up the peeps here with more suggestions. Sure, you can try to defend by the Q&As that you have made, but they are relatively superficial and constructed in a way that a newbie or returning player would do so and be considerably kindly responded to.

Focusing on what DragonFable solely is…
1. Have you really understood the kind of culture that the DF community has already developed over the years, particularly those of more present times? Finally,
2. As I have already said on my 2nd post and Ultima’s, check as much as possible how the balancing of this game is structured. This game is nowhere near the whaling that AQ Classic and outlandish grindfests that AQW has reached among other things.
DF AQW  Post #: 18
5/2/2021 4:58:23   
Dratomos
Helpful!


 Your suggestions are very AQW-like and they are based on AQW mechanics. DF is a different game and I don't think most players want ridiculous farming or OP items merges to DF like you. DF doesn't work like AQW, and having guests makes the game much easier for DF then it might for AQW.

Suggestions that are usually liked are QLE -features (like the one where it would make DK items more farmable) etc. You make very absurd suggestions that don't improve DF in any meaningful way, which is why they receive such harsh criticism. It's fine if you like to farm very much or other AQW features, but don't try to bring them to DF. It won't work as easily as you would think.

Like @Ultima29 said, even though you have played DF for a very long time, it sometimes does feel like you don' grasp the mechanics as well. They aren't the same as in AQW.
DF AQW  Post #: 19
5/2/2021 17:18:51   
Cyrenius
Member

I don't mind the criticism, I'm not offended in the slightest. I welcome it in fact. I wouldn't bring my ideas to the community if I didn't. I allow the community to sort out which ideas are good and which are terrible. Which I guess only 20% - 25% of my ideas are good (the 5 stat points and Alexander's weapon giving a 20% chance at -30 fire resistance for 5 turns), but that's still 20% - 25%.

I do understand Dragonfable and AQW very well. I play both. I have BiS equipment on my mains in both games, which includes Inn challenges (including Ice and Dragons and Inevitable Equilibrium) in Dragonfable. I know Ice and Dragons equipment is not BiS for overall or defense, but the helmet is for offense. Look at both profiles and see what equipment I possess. And I am proud to say I support DF by buying dragon coins and AQW by buying adventure coins.

And there is some grinding required in Dragonfable too. Defender's Medals for instance. Less now than before, now it's mainly for the EUD and cannon. Nothing like AQW though. The Necrotic Sword of Doom for example (which I possess there, and there are others) dwarf the defender's gear grinds in Dragonfable.

And I removed the garbage ideas and kept the good ideas in the first post to make it easier for the devs to look at the good ideas, I kept the garbage ideas in the other posts.

Regardless, I'll stop making suggestions except to keep suggesting the two good suggestions until they are implemented if they are implemented. I will make a Facebook group where time to time I will make suggestions for both DF and AQW, although not link it here (not sure if that is legal or not), I may give it out via PM once I make it, you can search for it if you like.

Anyway, just out of curiosity, is it more that people consider the majority of my ideas are out of balance / overpowered or that I suggest grinding as a ways to acquire items often?

< Message edited by Cyrenius -- 5/2/2021 19:14:37 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 20
5/3/2021 3:31:50   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

 I appreciate that you do see some sense after plentiful criticisms that are mostly against your suggestions. Now, let’s go ahead and discuss the details in your latest post here.

quote:

And there is some grinding required in Dragonfable too. Defender's Medals for instance. Less now than before, now it's mainly for the EUD and cannon. Nothing like AQW though. The Necrotic Sword of Doom for example (which I possess there, and there are others) dwarf the defender's gear grinds in Dragonfable.

Let us divide the grind system in DF in 2 ways: DM grindfests and standard Inn fights. The former is relatively straightforward, unless of course you think it’s fun to run around random structure labyrinths. The latter is often defeating a solo/duo to get the base version then up the ante by getting into a duo, trio, or quartet all or nothing. And then of course there are the rare exceptions, the most horrific incarnations of grinds that are Exaltia and C7 which are the logical limits of combining both grind styles.

Next here, let’s run numbers. In AQW, you can end 6 foes in less than 15 seconds give or take. In DF, you might take at least twice that time to clear the same enemy count. And that is just running a war wave analogy. What about those that approach AQW HP sponges, let’s say 15K? Gimme 5 seconds and a LC will end it barely a contest. Technos can take 6 minutes on the same figure and require tactical attention.

Finally, the claims you have on AQW NSoD paling stuff like DM items. Not everybody here is a Baron Dante. Even I already feel it’s an achievement to contribute 1000 waves in an entire war where all of the DF community needs be at their most serious and tight knit (The latest (re-)war does not count as the victory is inevitable). Perhaps you’d want to reevaluate those figures again as a Cannon and EUD grind would take multiple wars to even max out, and wars don’t come out often. No, the Proclamation War and Togpocalypse challenge are inefficient for DM grinds, hence why softer DM grinders would more than likely spend more time waiting for the next war, Avatars knows when, compared to NSoD earning wherein the resources are avail 24/7 and completable within a year.

That’s the difference between a DF and AQW grind. DF has fewer numbers to earn but the time, stamina, and effort spent is just about enough to slay hundreds of undead with your shiny BLoD in AQW in the same span.

quote:

people consider the majority of my ideas are out of balance/overpowered

You only have to see the stat spreads in the equipment this game offers to players as to know why you’re receiving harsh criticisms for your dream cape. There’s already a pattern in main stat, secondaries, and resistances long noticed, and they are, apart from keeping crazy class skills in check, that maintain the delicate power balance for all levels of gameplay.


< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 5/3/2021 4:13:09 >
DF AQW  Post #: 21
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