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=DF= June 18th Design Notes: Book 3: The Royal Resistance: Of Duty and Dragons

 
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6/18/2021 22:02:54   
  Peachii
Clairvoyant!


quote:


Verlyrus:
Book 3: The Royal Resistance: Of Duty and Dragons

Hey there, heroes!

This week, we return to the Book 3 main story once again! The Royal Resistance finale is here. With the fate of the Magesterium unknown, elemental energy continues to seep into Lore from the remaining Proclamation rifts.

The Greenguard Alliance must gather their strength for the challenges ahead. And at their head is you, the hero!



As the Royal Resistance closes, the Greenguard Alliance sets its sights on the next target. The next arc, The Awakened Depths, begins with the end of this week's quest!

Head over to Queen Victoria in Book 3 Swordhaven to play this week's release: Of Duty and Dragons.



There's been a large adjustment to the way resistances work.
  • Elemental and All resistance combined is now effectively capped at 80 (Down from combined 95).
  • This does not include resistance from skills, which is still capped at 99.
  • A large number of challenges have been adjusted as a result of this change. Massive thanks to our new testers for their efforts in cataloguing the affected challenges!
    • The following challenge enemies have had their damage reduced by varying amounts.
    • The Abomination
    • Argus Skywatcher
    • Sinnocence
    • Vaal
    • Xan
    • Frallmar
    • Envy
    • Greed
    • Gluttony
    • Lust
    • Desirelings
    • Wrath
    • Sloth
    • Pride
    • Reaver
    • Ayauhnqui
    • Ricterild
    • Illumina
    • Vilmor
    • Cyrozen
    • Frostscythe
    • Glaisaurus
    • Super Mega Ultra Darkness Dracolich
    • Draco
    • Yllmar

  • Some inconsistencies in the way resistance debuffs were calculated have been fixed as well.
    • Your total All + Elemental resistance is always treated as 80 if it is stacked over 80.
    • For example, if your total adds up to 100, and you get a -10 All debuff, your effective resistance will be 70 (80 effective, minus 10).
  • The goal of this adjustment and the massive number of challenge changes is to make resistance gearing a bit more open, while also making certain challenges less about having the perfect amount of resistance.
The Book 3 Timeline has also been updated!
  • Fixed some inconsistency and issues with the Book 3 Main Story tracker.
  • Removed the Tomix Saga tracker.
  • Added extra space for the future at the "end" of the timeline.
  • Updated the timeline with the Reimagined changes.
  • The Nest Epilogue has been added to the timeline.
  • Fixed some issues with dragging/scrolling/loading the timeline.
Also a couple of bug fixes!
  • Pirate and Dread Pirate's Plunder skill should now properly give an additional MP potion if HP potions are full and HP% > MP%
  • Fixed a bug (sorry) where Dread Pirate's Quick Thinking did twice as much damage as intended.
  • Fixed a bug where Adventure Mode was not properly suppressed against multiple opponents.



And that's all for this week! In the meantime, Dracelix has been very hard at work for something super special... We wanted to get it done for DragonFable's anniversary month, but we also want to make sure it's as awesome as possible. And we also don't want Dracelix collapsing from exhaustion. So please look forward to what we have coming soon to DragonFable!





And that's all for this week! We have lots planned for the rest of this month, and we hope you'll join us in looking forward to everything to come!

Join the discussion on the official forums!

Want to play DragonFable without using an internet browser?

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Tags: Verlyrus
DF AQW  Post #: 1
6/18/2021 22:05:59   
AstralCodex
Member

To be frank, I think the res stack change is terrible, especially seeing how many bosses needed to be adjusted and the fact that it still ended up being a massive balance change after the fact for a bunch of challenges. I'm not a big fan of the way that DF handles balance with massive spontaneous changes with little explanation, and this feels like one of the worst examples yet.

It's possible that from a perspective of the DF team, this change was a long time coming and has a nice explanation and rationale. But to me, it feels like a part of the DF system, one that many players had spent hours farming gear for and planning around, was just spontaneously taken away with no explanation. At least the relevant Inn challenges have been adjusted, though the result is still that several fights are quite a bit harder now (FP with anything but DK, Fractured Self, Ricterild, InD) while others are easier, and basically a ton of existing guides got outdated in the cross fire. It just seemed like, as has happened before, a massive change was implemented that mandated a ton of work from devs and testers, to touch a system that didn't need to be touched in the first place.

I'm afraid I'm too upset with this change to offer more detailed feedback, so I'm going to recuse myself for now.
DF  Post #: 2
6/18/2021 22:52:02   
Kurtz96
Member

I always found it weird how dread pirate had different skills than pirate when it is suppose to be a reskin. Necro Paragon doesn't have any mechanical differences than necromancer for instance.

As for the resistances, I don't like the change cause I think it might eliminate some classes with sub-optimal shields from completing some challenges. Maybe I am wrong and with the nerfs all classes can continue to do all the challenges they could previously.

< Message edited by Kurtz96 -- 6/19/2021 0:02:48 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 3
6/19/2021 0:59:07   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

After going a bit Golden Hand (Launcher and captchas don’t mix well, apparently. Had to uninstall-reinstall after cache clears and antivirus checks got nothing. There seems to be some odd traffic that scrambles DF and AQ access (the games that I tested them on where I got the same results) but not AQW), well…
spoiler:

Sad to see our not!pikachu of a prince go, but definitely for the better for now. I wonder what our bodyguard has to say about the Queen’s most recent rapport on dealing with reports. And boy, Dragonsgrasp definitely got a nice makeover.
The Awakened Depths, hmm… any more of Yllmar and Kathool’s friends we have to deal with as we try to hack through the meanest weeds we have seen/heard of so far?

As for the resistance recalibration, I see nothing really wrong about it especially after the appropriate Inn bosses got their damage output rebalanced around it as we can barely achieve 80 on any particular element if going by generalistic resistance buildups outside of Light and Darkness. That new calculation mechanic for resistance debuffing is the only thing concerning, as freaks like Vaal and Cryozen do exist and can make a mess of runs because of their significant anti-element mechanics.


< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 6/19/2021 1:00:27 >
DF AQW  Post #: 4
6/19/2021 1:16:09   
Flabagast
Member

spoiler:

So long Eulin! See you next interdimensional catastrophe! Looks like Ostromir will miss yooouu! ^-^
So Dragesvard's sunken into the iceberg it was built on? Yikes, I doubt they'll be able to rebuild from that. Makes me wonder whether the rift opened right on top of it, or if it's in the Northlands and the spores travelled by air. And Dragonsgrasp is... underground? Huh. That's another way to stay remote I suppose.

I hope we get to see Vilmor again. She hasn't made her Book 3 appearance yet and I've been wondering if she ever managed to clear her name, or if she and Cryozen Jr are alone in the cold somewhere.

Concerning the Timeline: it looks like it's been stretched a bit earlier on to give the time period between The Valtrith Tomb and the Dark Night War some more room to breathe, which makes sense. It seems like it'll be a headache to keep whatever will replace the Dragon Rider War and the surrounding Sulen'Eska quests from clashing with Blood and Roses and Shear Destruction and Espina Rosa. Not to mention squeezing the rest of Six Heroes, the Malerous and whatever follows Gorrilaphant Warfare in before My Spot and The Gala and around each other. Some more stretching might be in order there, but enough yabbering from me about the timeline.

I might be in the minority here, but I think the resistance changes are a good thing, especially concerning Inn challenges. I never really gave Vaal and Xan or Vilmor and Frostscythe a proper go because I knew finding gear with specific resistances would be the only option. I think keeping Inn challenges being more about strategy and challenging mechanics - rather than stacking resistances - is a better way to go imo.

< Message edited by Flabagast -- 6/19/2021 1:19:50 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 5
6/19/2021 1:45:51   
ChronoEye
Member

I felt like this really needs to be said for real now.

Nerfs after another doesn't make the game feel fun. And then nerfs into things, that does not make them overpowered at the slightest ( Looking at you, Dread Pirate, the class that's actually only available through Dragon Coins anymore ) makes my faith in the game really start to hinder. Sure, I'm not saying I'd quit over something like this, but really. Do we really require nerfing things, that doesn't affect the game's balance at the slightest? No, we don't. And without making up for it in the slightest way either, like some games does. ( ex. allowing to sell the specific thing back for the full price for specific amount of days / weeks before the sell-back returns to normal )

If being really honest here, I ever bought Armor Closet only for Dread Pirate, and now, it feels no more like the class that I want to use. And I can always equip / unequip my other classes without it; this one I bought only for this one specific class that I'm no more going to be touching over this change. Sure, this complain might be minor, and people will be attempting to call me out for complaining yet again, while all I'm doing is giving my side of the feedback, for hopefully possibly improving things in the future, if there's something to be improved.

The story update were good one, as always, I am sure looking forwards for that one; but then, at this rate I am feeling like with all the changes and constant nerfs ( This is why I hate Inn - every aspect of the game is only being changed because of it. ) makes things no more fun. And the excuse for all these changes ( except the Dread Pirate one ) is exactly why I'm complaining - because of the Inn. Not everyone cares for the challenges, and yet they're the only reason the fun stuff from the game is being taken away. This needs to change, really - instead of focusing everything around content that only a small amount of the players cares for, why not to look at things in a grander scale? Doing changes only when it affects the whole game instead of end-game stuff only would be a better way around. Not like this.

The final complain now that I'm at it is also the Friday the 13th stuff; sure, this part has nothing to do with this week's changes, or anything, but really - Friday the 13th in the past of DragonFable were all about wars. And this one has lately ( Remthalas, The Lucky Undead, The Blood Moon, and November's Myalos ) changed for the worse, too. Sure, we get good lore out of things instead, but when there's a date when clearly something is expected, some people like myself tend to get disappointed when a tradition is not fulfilled like it always has been. And the amount of wars nowadays comparing to before has also gotten lower - makes me feel like the current team hates doing them, comparing to the times when Alina, Geopetal, etc. people were in. Back then, we did get story progression even during wars - what has changed nowadays to make it seem like it is not so?

I sincerely hope that these stuff would change one day - even if I highly doubt so. And I'm fine by that, even if I'm not happily accepting it.
Post #: 6
6/19/2021 3:07:31   
DragonKeeper
Member

I was able to defeat Yllmar using Riftwalker equipped with Soulforged Scythe with the Cysero's Hamstorm slotted – along with the help of Kid Dragon.

I like the new Yllmar.

< Message edited by DragonKeeper -- 6/19/2021 3:08:05 >
DF  Post #: 7
6/19/2021 4:23:31   
  Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat


Dread Pirate's multi was always obviously bugged. It would have gotten bugfixed when it eventually gets folded in to pirate as a customization option. I just happened to find time to fix it this week.

The resistance changes really don't affect players outside of Inn challenges, where even then it only affects fights where it was optimal to grind for specific resistance drops. The changes open up other options and builds in those cases.

We have been having wars on Friday the 13th with the Maleurous storyline. I think we only missed one in recent memory? We even shoved a war in on the 14th too.

And yes we have had fewer wars. They take an insane amount of work for the team, more so than any other kind of release. They are also massive grindfests, which dont appeal to everyone, and can and has caused players to burn out. As a result we have been doing our best to spread them out more, for our health and the players'. They also aren't the best for future players, who go in, play the intro, 50%, and finale, and that it was a war doesnt do anything for that.

For further clarification on the resistance changes and challenge adjustments, if there are still any outliers, they will be further adjusted, but basic strategies should remain the same.

< Message edited by Verlyrus -- 6/19/2021 4:49:03 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 8
6/19/2021 4:25:45   
Dratomos
Helpful!


The main story never disappoints

spoiler:

Finally seeing Dragesvard and Dragonsqrasp for the first time in ages is a wonderful thing. I've been very interesting to see what happens with them.

But I do wonder if player's DA will be taken to account. As NDA players haven't met Vilmor or other Dragonsqrasp people.


As for the resistance changes, it's odd. It never did seem like a problem to be corrected (one would argue that DK change is not a bad thing and was too OP against Light and Darkness enemies) so this change did come very suddenly. For story missions it doesn't really change much, as Adventure Mode is there to make it easier.

So changing a lot of Inn enemies with resistances was a change that really doesn't change currently much. Except. It can lower the worth of many items that gave huge resistance to one element. On the other hand, it lowers the optimal item requirements for certain fights. So I'm feeling very mixed about this.
DF AQW  Post #: 9
6/19/2021 4:33:10   
  Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat


So, multiplicative resistance is a really crazy thing. The more you have, the more valuable it becomes. As a result, the ONLY stat that mattered on gear was resistance, outside of items with massive negatives or positives.

By lowering the cap, and at the same time attempting to maintain the current challenge status quo, it therefore reduces the impact and requirement of resitances.

As a result, once you reach this lower cap, you are more free to experiment with different items and stat builds. Resistance becomes less of the one or done stat.

This also helps me in enemy design. Instead of having to make res checks for certain elements that a boss may thematically use, since damage can always be relatively threatening now, more interesting mechanics can have space to shine rather than simply being ignored due to near invincibility.

In the case of challenges, this should result in more fun for both players and myself.
AQ MQ  Post #: 10
6/19/2021 8:08:19   
moe
Member

Is it just me or was there no reward for the new quest?
AQW  Post #: 11
6/19/2021 9:15:30   
Korriban Gaming
Banned


Aww I'm gonna miss the yellow squishy guy

I don't know how to feel about the Dread Pirate multi change. We lost a good warring class/skill but I've always seen DP as sort of a Pirate reskin so I guess it's justifiable that they now have the same skills. This also does mean that there's 1 less reason to buy the Armor Closet now.

I personally like the resist changes in general as it gives more leeway for us to use other gear and stack other resists like immo resist or negative health resist. The reduction in base damage for the affected mobs are definitely a welcome change as well. In general, I would say most of those fights got a small nerf which is always something nice for the more casual playerbase struggling with them

quote:

Is it just me or was there no reward for the new quest?

yea there's no reward
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 12
6/19/2021 9:42:58   
steambin96
Member

Eh... Dread pirate got nerfed... Did it really need to get nerfed? I mean, it wasn't exactly balance breaking or anything right?
Post #: 13
6/19/2021 12:19:56   
Baron Dante
Member

quote:

They are also massive grindfests, which dont appeal to everyone, and can and has caused players to burn out. As a result we have been doing our best to spread them out more, for our health and the players'.


I want to specifically vouch on the burnout thing here, because I can pretty much feel the argument for "just don't play it then" coming.
Because while that is true, it's also true that wars are built in a way where they encourage players to put in a lot of time for the wars.
We had this with DM grinding (Something that is finite at least), but that was partially fixed by lowering most of the DM requirements.

However, there's also the good ol' war wave tracker on your Character Page. This is something that encourages players to do up to 10k waves in every single war (The recent Mini-war not included, I'm actually not completely sure if the change to 2k was just for that, or meant to be the norm from now on).

There's a lot to be said about protecting players from themselves. Even if it's not the intent, this is a tangible "goal" the game gives you, and if the goal promotes unhealthy amounts of grinding within a short amount of time, I think considerations should be taken about not having it be like that.

The above can also be applied to stuff like nerfs, as we've seen here. Players have a tendency to gravitate towards the "strongest" setups, and that makes sense. However, there are times when doing just that promotes blatantly un-fun gameplay. the players might not even realize it themselves. DmK v1 is a good example of this. Sure, it stomps anything and everything. While the "power fantasy" or whatever might be fun (And hey, if someone enjoys that, that's fine, I'm not talking on behalf of everyone here), it also ignores pretty much any gameplay that could occur. If the players will naturally gravitate toward a strategy that ignores mechanics entirely, there's either no point in the mechanics existing, or the players are missing on the (subjective) fun of figuring them out.

I can't speak for this particular change that occurred today, since I haven't had the time to see how much it actually changes, but what Verly said above,

quote:

This also helps me in enemy design. Instead of having to make res checks for certain elements that a boss may thematically use, since damage can always be relatively threatening now, more interesting mechanics can have space to shine rather than simply being ignored due to near invincibility.


is pretty much exactly what I wrote. Damage is no longer this bottleneck for mechanics, and that is, at least in theory, a good thing.

I will say though, that there is a fine balance that needs to be hit here. Players generally don't like nerfs, because they feel bad. Buffing things instead would be preferred (Although understandably, in certain cases, especially the res change here, that's not always an option), but more importantly, I think some caution should be taken with nerfing specific interactions.

The change to DeathKnight's resistances kind of hits this criteria. I understand why it's done that way, again to curb the res stacking aspect, but this was an inherent advantage the class had built into it. It's an incentive to use DK in certain fights over other classes, which gives more variety to the way you can tackle fights. (Mind that this is not something the fights should necessarily be balanced around. Don't expect people to walk in with DK against Light/Darkness fights, treat it more as an unintended interaction that can give an edge to the class) I would say the same thing applies to something like DragonSlayer vs. Dragons, but we reach the v1 level of "this fight no longer matters."

If every such match-up gets nerfed for the sake of balance, you reach a point where every class starts to feel more and more similar. Players should be rewarded for finding unexpected strategies, not get punished by the strategy getting deleted off the face of the earth.

...I didn't mean to make this post nearly as long, and as usual, like half of it is probably unnecessarily incoherent, but there you go.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
6/19/2021 18:03:54   
ChronoEye
Member

Noticed the " doesn't appeal to everyone" part for the wars as part of reasoning for the lack of them nowadays. This is not a excuse - because Inn Challenges are precisely same - definitely not appealing for everyone out there. We get them way more. ( to the point where I really wish for the return of Old School DragonFable or something around that ) - back in the old days, I've been excited to log in to the game every week, knowing there was something for everyone. Or at least for most of the people.

Nowadays the log-ins are limited to only 2 times every month, 3 if story re-imagined release happens, more than that on war weeks. Doing these new stuff and changes drives the old people away slowly, but surely, while the newer people might find them interesting and so on, like I bet they does. Makes me kind of slightly feel ( this is just a feeling - not meant to be taken in bad ways ) that the game no longer wants old players to be around as much as before. Even though, I wouldn't be dropping out the game because of the story keeps going well, and better than back then, haha.

Like up to this week - for example, I was like " Oh, while waiting for a release that I'm going to play, I'll just play alt. characters instead whenever I feel like doing so. " - but after this week, I was like " nope, not doing that fun any more either. "

Anyways, all the fun must come to a end sometime, I guess, so I'll just be staying around for the story releases from now on. While no more expecting any wars from the game either; I do not approve of the lack of them these days.
Post #: 15
6/19/2021 18:45:27   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

quote:

Noticed the " doesn't appeal to everyone" part for the wars as part of reasoning for the lack of them nowadays. This is not a excuse - because Inn Challenges are precisely same - definitely not appealing for everyone out there. We get them way more. ( to the point where I really wish for the return of Old School DragonFable or something around that ) - back in the old days, I've been excited to log in to the game every week, knowing there was something for everyone. Or at least for most of the people.

And these are the arguments that approach the coefficient of “Okay, boomer.” Honestly, apart from my impression that I have that players are forgetting that DF is a RPG, I am also starting to think that they are forgetting that DF also has a small full time dev base compared to, let’s say, AQW and AQ3D. Secondly, the game is old and has been handed over to various batches of teams, so it should be a given that changes will occur on how the game’s flow will be envisioned. I for one am those that are more casual in warring, and I even had my views expressed on that gameplay aspect on a suggestion thread as to why wars are quite resource and stamina extensive. While I am not the type that would condone those who still want to get the Cannon for on-hit shenanigans, I do have a limit to tolerating… war freaks, for lack of better term. Sure, wars do show the close-knit community of DF. At the same time though, the wave numbers can just be so daunting that those who don’t know how to pace themselves will, as many times that it has already been pointed out, burn out.
DF AQW  Post #: 16
6/19/2021 23:27:43   
ChronoEye
Member

@Laeon val Observis: Was waiting for people like you to show up. What took you so long? Go ahead, do your job. You know what I'm talking about. Well? I'm waiting, "boomer."
Post #: 17
6/20/2021 7:57:07   
1997p3
Member

Hmm wouldnt the "removal" of res stacking render more items useless (items which may have been used just for res stacking), making the general equipment being used even more specific to just those few items
AQ MQ  Post #: 18
6/20/2021 10:21:19   
  Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat


The opposite. Multiplicative resistance means that as the resistance goes higher, every point is more and more valuable. So any random outliers from rares, seasonals, special offers, or old quests etc became insanely stronger than anything else solely because of resistance. However, the pool of "mid tier" resistance items is much wider. And since the cap is now lowered, there's a more reasonable limit to resistance that is more accessible.

The old items still retain their niche- by providing more resistance, it lets you use items that may be stronger in other stats but lower in resistance along with them.

Meanwhile, the general viable item pool expands, since the new cap is much easier to reach.

< Message edited by Verlyrus -- 6/20/2021 10:22:59 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 19
6/20/2021 12:59:09   
Kurtz96
Member

quote:

Was waiting for people like you to show up. What took you so long? Go ahead, do your job. You know what I'm talking about. Well? I'm waiting, "boomer

But what they said is true. Inn challenges are less work and are therefore a "breather" week of sorts for the dev team. They have limited resources and so need more time to work on bigger releases. Like DF has only 2 full time devs.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 20
6/20/2021 18:01:07   
Alm Nullamors
Member

It says Elemental and All resistance combined, so I'm right to read it as "Immo+All still caps out at the previous value"?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 21
6/21/2021 5:37:03   
Dratomos
Helpful!


quote:

It says Elemental and All resistance combined, so I'm right to read it as "Immo+All still caps out at the previous value"?


Yeah, it has no cap, meaning it is possible to get 101 Immobility and make our hero unstunnable.
DF AQW  Post #: 22
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