SeigusDarkon
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Notha has some wavelengths similar to Jaania currently, which is dangerous enough, not to mention how far Magesters went in manipulating a society so that they are right and that they won't be the one to shoulder the blame when things go wrong. Unless we can settle those loose ends, I'd rather that we keep the Avatars/Lords (Magesterium terms do imply that they might be one and the same, and our timeline does deviate from AQ) instead of marching blindly into a future we don't even have a finger in comprehending yet.
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And Notha, for all her knowledge of the past is blind to see that she is repeating it. She doesn't care about the collateral damage that comes from ending the Avatars. She just wants to win, no matter the cost.
These two sum up my feelings on the matter pretty well. Notha is a reckless, selfish narcissist who doesn't actually care about the suffering or chaos she causes, she just wants to fulfill her own self-appointed agenda with no real idea or even a realistic grasp of what comes after, just like Jaania. Both Jaania and Notha are blinded by their own (ultimately selfish disguised as altruistic) desires and refuse to even consider that they might in fact, have it wrong. Hiding the inherent selfishness of one's goals and the recklessness and destructiveness of ones methods in claims that one is doing it: "for the greater good" is the textbook behavior of tyrants. If Notha actually succeeded in overthrowing the Lords I guarantee you that in any realistically written universe she would become 10X the tyrant that the Lords were on their worst days. She's all about "freedom" now, but just wait until people use that freedom to oppose her directly, do something against her will/desires, or basically do anything she doesn't like. The moment someone uses their free choice to say, resurrect the Avatars, she'll suddenly become a worse tyrant than Slugwrath in the name of "freedom". She's like the people who claim to love democracy but will then advocate for tyranny the moment "the people" vote against what they want. She'll commit more atrocities and cause more destruction while claiming the same "greater good." We know this is true because history shows us this happening every time. The "liberators" always become worse than the ones they overthrew.
Compared to some gods both in fantasy and IRL mythology, the Elemental Lords are downright benevolent, and I would take their stewardship over a lot of other pantheons ANY day, whether Greek, Norse, Hindu, or any others. If you want proof of the Elemental Lord's benevolence, look no further than how relatively non-interventionist they are. Other pantheons in other settings routinely have their followers launch crusades and genocidal campaigns to spread their influence or accomplish other selfish goals. I have yet to see proof of the Avatars engaging in this behavior routinely. As far as I have seen the Avatars are one of the most pacifistic (on the whole) pantheons in fantasy. They've only directly intervened once (Storm War), and most of the time they actively help heroes become more powerful to protect more people and stop larger threats. They almost never intervene in mortal affairs to the point where we as the Hero have gone through 3 chapters only having seen them maybe once per chapter. If they were as heavy-handed as Notha makes them out to be we would have been seeing them constantly. Instead they already more or less leave Lore (or at least Greenguard and that area) to run itself. Paladins and Necromancers have entire wars without either Voidstar or Celeritas interfering. We only met a messenger from Fiamme AFTER having slain Akriloth, before that we heard and saw nothing of any of the Avatars. Not to mention the Avatars are actually open to changing, moreso than before certainly, which shows the possibility they could be reformed to be even more hands-off than they already are and more like Guardians of the Balance rather than enforcers of it.
Notha is all ready to commit deicide and yet never stopped to think of the Lords as people, only ever as a kind of non-person she calls "oppressors" to justify her irrational hatred of them, and her attempts to exterminate/harm them. She could not have picked a more benevolent pantheon to be angry at, and over a petty reason too. They lied? Big whoop. People do that all the time and nobody advocates we kill everyone who lies. They sought greater latitudes of control over people? Ok but what did they do with it? Nothing horrible? I fail to see the problem here. Humans with that kind of control over people inevitably become monstrous tyrants and cause incredible amounts of human suffering, all the Avatars did with it was try to maintain the peace and balance of the world with it so Lore could remain habitable. That's pretty amazing and highly respectable.
And lets not forget that the Avatars are one of the biggest things standing in the way of existential threats like the Shadowscythe and preventing it from running roughshod all over Lore and probably all of creation. Lest we forget, the hero failed to ever stop Sepulchure or even scratch him, and he was only ever wounded and harmed by betrayal at a pivotal moment. Without Drakath's betrayal Sepulchure might have been unstoppable short of direct intervention from the Avatars. Getting rid of them is no doubt top of the list of priorities for Doom/The Shadowscythe, whose purposes Notha seems to be unwittingly serving. I'm half expecting the Mysterious Stranger to return at the end of the war and reveal this was all his doing once again, and that he is responsible for Notha's suffering to make her the perfect tool to attack the Avatars.
The Lords have been as much slaves as everyone else. Until the prophecies began to be fulfilled, they were slaves to their duty to maintain order and balance in the world. Not merely slaves of the body but slaves of the mind as well. They were seemingly created for that one purpose and until now only ever knew of that one purpose and couldn't comprehend any other way to exist. And Notha would kill them or otherwise harm them for that alone? She's no different than the monsters that she has made them out to be in her own head. In fact I'd wager all of her hatred of the strawmen she's built of the Avatars is her own self-loathing and she's just projecting her own worst aspects onto them. Once you realize that the Lords are as much slaves as everyone else, Notha's "revenge" can be seen for what it actually is: a would-be tyrant abusing victims. Thankfully Lock and Key seem to be understanding of this and thus they try and reform and teach the Lords how to be free from their own mind prisons and become actual free beings with responsibilities, rather than the mere tools with roles to play that they arguably were before, serving only the balance and knowing nothing else. The Avatars deserve sympathy and compassion without denigration, patronizing, or disrespect. They were, in Fiamme's words, left confused and rudderless after the end of Book 1. Lock and Key state that the Avatar's responsibilities ended where the prophecies began, which explains how they felt this way. They've never known anything other than their duty and are just now becoming accustomed to the idea of not needing to bear that burden any longer. They need time, help, and understanding. I for one look forward to (and sorely hope for) a future where the Avatars take their place as true gods, patron deities instead of servants of some greater cause like balance. With each Avatar being free to be their own individual and pursue their own goals and desires. Imagine if some of them incarnated themselves down onto Lore and lived among mortals, learning, growing, and developing their own unique character traits and having experiences. And I'm not just saying that because I want to be best bros with Temblor and Voidstar and get to know Neso a little better IYKWIM. I'd love a future version of DF where the player can even do things like swear loyalty to one Elemental Lord or another, do quests, unlock cool shops with cool and powerful elemental weapons, have interesting and engaging interactions with the Avatars themselves and their servants as well. It could all be a great way to further expand on the cosmology of Dragonfable, and what better way to do it than having the hero befriend the gods and develop a relationship with them beyond just being their champion?
Just because Notha and Jaania both had tragic backstories does not excuse their actions and the suffering they knowingly cause in the selfish pursuit of their goals. They need to convince themselves otherwise though, which is why neither of them will ever back down from their positions. They've locked themselves into a psychological prison of their own devising. To admit that they were wrong about the "nobility" of their goals is to remove the excuse of "its for the greater good" that was serving as a protective barrier around their conscience as they commit atrocities in the name of that "greater good" (which as I said is really just a selfish goal born from their own personal pain).
As someone I know likes to say: "Hurting people hurt people." This describes both Notha and Jaania to T. They are hurting, so they lash out in pain at at the world and cause as much suffering as they can while protecting their conscience by couching their actions in self-delusions that their goal is an altruistic one, instead of selfish like it really is.
Everyone who fights on Jaania's side willingly has had mostly negative interactions with magic, hence they, like her, lash out at magic and claim their actions noble to protect their own egos as they commit atrocities. Notha was obviously a disturbed little girl with horribly neglectful parents who didn't get her prayers to the Avatars answered as a child and so she lashes out at them while claiming she's doing it "for everyone." Honestly, nothing makes me more sick with rage than someone who behaves that way. Don't claim you are fighting for me or anyone else, don't use me as a moral shield to protect your own conscience from conviction and guilt. If you want to cause suffering and pain because you are suffering, just admit it to yourself and then say so openly, and I can at least respect your honesty though not your intent.
On a more positive note, I just did 100 waves today on my first day of participating in the war. May be small beans for others but its my current record for waves-per-day. I've found Deathknight and ODMK to be the best at efficiently processing waves in 1 or 2 turns reliably, but if anyone can suggest any other classes I'd be glad to hear them.
As for the new format, I'm cool with it, but would like the option of choosing between the old format and this one in future wars. Also, the gauntlet-style is very appealing to me but it has one issue: I can't just farm wave after wave I have to be brought back to the war screen after each wave. If we could have a "Crusade" mode or something where we just jump from wave to wave with an automated heal in between and the option every 5 or 10 waves or so to leave that would be fantastic. Or maybe have a "Do you want to return after 5 waves, 10 waves, or never" option where the "Never" option has a button that's always on screen to make your current wave the last one before you return to camp. Less clicking, more slaughter! With a "Crusade" mode I could probably lose myself in waves for hours and hours, jamming to the OST, listening to podcasts, or doing any number of things. I really don't see the point in making us return to the war screen/war town after every single wave, it demotivates me from doing them tbh.
< Message edited by SeigusDarkon -- 8/17/2021 11:11:31 >
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