RE: =AQ= Fighter Class Overhaul & Fall Season LTS


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RE: =AQ= Fighter Class Overhaul & Fall Season LTS

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9/24/2022 18:04:19

PD
Member

Thanks for the health checks Hollow!

spoiler:

I guess since this is really one of the first things you're supposed to do, the game references it as if you haven't been there in awhile. Also doesn't mention how Blackhawk's Father is actually Carnage, and this is Zhilo before he becomes completely insane and power hungry from trying to become the next Avatar of War.

Also love how the armor is Ice. We don't have a lot of those and Fighter Class goes well into filling the Ice niche. I too thought for a moment before the release that the armor was going to be Earth (because fighters get down and dirty!). But this is a welcome surprise nonetheless. If/when my new character can complete the quest line I have no doubt that Fighter Class will be its primary Ice Armor.

As for the questing itself, I tried to play this line on a new character, and the enemies are all at least level 30. Are classes not meant to be played before level 30? Either way the particular scaling makes it quite difficult to complete early on.

For some strategy:

spoiler:

So it seems you can't use Second Wind outside of the armor. However it is paused so that if you activate it, switch armors and then come back, you'll resume second wind mode.

Hoping for Info Subs on the Fighter + Master Classes. In particular I have no idea how Overwhelm works and it seems like it's supposed to be an attack that ignores defense and boosts your damage but doesn't activate certain on-hit effects? But the in-game description nor attack is very good at showing us what is happening. Close Quarters and Not Left Footed seem to be a mystery too with what they are doing.

The Master Fighter doesn't seem to have the Heavy Blow Skill nor Momentum Passive. Those would be nice to have access to in the Master Fighter armor but I'm sure compressing 2 skills in Master Fighter is already enough and if all 4 skills/passives were on it, Fighter would probably be overpowered or be oppressive for design space.

Also meanwhile we're still waiting for the Archer Class info subs too. Maybe knock out two birds with one stone and post those as well with the Fighter Class Subs?

< Message edited by PD -- 9/24/2022 18:41:20 >

Post #: 26

9/24/2022 21:40:02

Lv 1000
Member

quote:

Fighter Class Skills (in no particular order)

Note: The Master Fighter class has Second Wind and Overwhelm for skills.

- Close Quarters: Player Melee attacks gain +4.25 BtH.

- Second Wind: Quickcast skill. Charges 100% melee in SP and tracks player melee Hits and Attempts while using the (Master) Fighter Class armor over the next 2 turns. Afterwards, heals player HP equal to (110x0.85x[Hits2Turns/Attempts2Turns])% melee. This heal has 1 hit, a 1/3 BR lean. Damage type of the heal is Melee and it scales with STR for stat bonuses.

- Momentum: Toggle skill. Charges 25% melee* in SP per turn. Attempts to inflict a +(40/1.4/0.85/2x[Hits/Attempts])% = +(16.81x[Hits/Attempts])% damage taken Omni EleVuln effect for 2 turns. This has a +0 Save Bonus, player STR/LUK vs. monster DEX/LUK.
*Yes I know it should be paying 40% melee "I'm just the messanger lmao".

- Heavy Blow: "Overcharged" weapon-based skill. Deals 225% melee in damage and costs 125% melee in SP. Has 2 hits. Pays 41.65% damage* and has a [Hits/2]% chance to attempt to inflict a Paralyze effect for 1 turn. This has a -20 Save Bonus, player STR/LUK vs. monster END/LUK.
*Yes I know something is messed up here, either the skill should be doing less damage and costing less SP, or the skill should pay less for the paralyze.

- Not Left Footed: Player Melee attacks deal +5% damage.

- Overwhelm: Standard weapon-based skill. Follows player weapon for element (so no EleComp). Costs 100% melee in SP. Deals +20% damage against monsters with PowerLevel > 1.5, deals -10% damage otherwise.

Post #: 27

9/24/2022 21:54:45

PD
Member

@Lv1000: Thanks for that!!!

Though does anyone know how the Class Armor (not Master) scales if it does at all? I just kind of realized now that you can't get the Master versions until you're around level 85. And it seems like a terrible waste that we won't be able to leverage Heavy Blow and Momentum past the base armors.

@Brocolli: Also yeah, that is the point I've been making this whole time. Promises only seem to matter if people would get angry or someone happens to remember. Otherwise they're just empty promises. Items in the meantime will continue to be unobtainable through the pocket veto and people/staff just forgetting about things. And items that are said to be unobtainable will come back if nobody stops it from happening.

I do wonder what the reaction would be if an item that wasn't actually said to be unobtainable became so because someone decided to be a massive troll and take away our happiness for no good reason but their own amusement. Though I can't imagine anyone would be awful enough to do that but you have to really think...

Otherwise, we await the (Twisted) FallTide Dagger?

@LoreKeeper: I know it was human error. It was said 10 years ago and people forget. It's natural. My point was that it should have been nullified regardless. Nobody was going to get hurt and we all would've been fine with it.

< Message edited by PD -- 9/24/2022 22:34:38 >

Post #: 28

9/24/2022 22:12:48

Lorekeeper
And Pun-isher

Human error is always a factor, that couldn't be farther from meaning that our promises don't matter. Quite the opposite, this is important and I'll pass it along.

Edit: The original dev statement for the Falltide dagger release (Back when the Taladosian set released) leaves it open to be an October exclusive.

< Message edited by Lorekeeper -- 9/24/2022 23:25:51 >

Post #: 29

9/24/2022 23:28:44

Korriban Gaming
Banned

Alright so first impressions on the quest

1. The levels of the mobs are level 30 but the armor is only level 10. By the time you can get through the quest, you would have long outlevelled the armor. The next highest level up is 95 (if you have tokens) or 105 for gold. This makes no sense. It's also meant to be a beginner armor, why do we need to be at least level 30 before we can even start training it?
2. Even as a level 30, it seems pretty difficult. 4 consecutive battles without heals, 2 groups of 2 battles without heals and a boss with Freedom AND damage cap? Sorry but I don't see any low levelled player getting past all these without extreme cheese.
3. If you're planning on lowering monster level to accommodate lower level scaling, do consider lowering the stat roll as well. 43 for level 30 with STR trained isn't hard but it will be for level 10 (the class armor's level)

For armors

1. The class armor is actually pretty good at lower levels. A job well done for sure.
2. The level 150 armor is also not bad. Mainly because of the 1st QC heal skill. The 2nd skill however is kinda not as good. Even in the specific situation of monster powerlevel>1.5, you can still get similar if not a greater damage boost for a significantly lower cost with some other items in the game. I understand that the armor has 2 skills, so obviously this is not going to be as good. However the SP cost is really steep for what it does. Consider lowering it. The -10% penalty makes no sense if you're spending that amount of SP, at least just give it a lower boost rather than a penalty.

Tundra weapon

1. Really expensive toggle, not worth

LTS spell and weapon

quote:

Falltide Dagger is supposed to be perma rare

Wasn't aware of this, thought it was a new item. Either way, I don't see it being a big deal. Never been a fan of perma rare stuff, it's great that the staff are bringing back old items even if unintentional this time round.

quote:

I do wonder what the reaction would be if an item that wasn't actually said to be unobtainable became so because someone decided to be a massive troll and take away our happiness for no good reason but their own amusement. Though I can't imagine anyone would be awful enough to do that but you have to really think...

Unfortunately people like that exist. This being a single player game and all, more players having the item doesn't diminish the value or strength of an item, never understood the mindset of players who don't want anyone else getting their "rares"

quote:

I know it was human error. It was said 10 years ago and people forget. It's natural. My point was that it should have been nullified regardless. Nobody was going to get hurt and we all would've been fine with it.

Exactly. +1 to this

All in all, the weapon and spell isn't really worth the tokens imo but to each his own

AQW

Post #: 30

9/24/2022 23:51:50

Lv 1000
Member

quote:

quote:

Fighter Class Skills (in no particular order)

Note: The Master Fighter class has Second Wind and Overwhelm for skills.

- Close Quarters: Player Melee attacks gain +4.25 BtH.

- Second Wind: Quickcast skill. Charges 100% melee in SP and tracks player melee Hits and Attempts while using the (Master) Fighter Class armor over the next 2 turns. Afterwards, heals player HP equal to (110x0.85x[Hits2Turns/Attempts2Turns])% melee. This heal has 1 hit, a 1/3 BR lean. Damage type of the heal is Melee and it scales with STR for stat bonuses.

- Momentum: Toggle skill. Charges 25% melee* in SP per turn. Attempts to inflict a +(40/1.4/0.85/2x[Hits/Attempts])% = +(16.81x[Hits/Attempts])% damage taken Omni EleVuln effect for 2 turns. This has a +0 Save Bonus, player STR/LUK vs. monster DEX/LUK.
*Yes I know it should be paying 40% melee "I'm just the messanger lmao".

- Heavy Blow: "Overcharged" weapon-based skill. Deals 225% melee in damage and costs 125% melee in SP. Has 2 hits. Pays 41.65% damage* and has a [Hits/2]% chance to attempt to inflict a Paralyze effect for 1 turn. This has a -20 Save Bonus, player STR/LUK vs. monster END/LUK.
*Yes I know something is messed up here, either the skill should be doing less damage and costing less SP, or the skill should pay less for the paralyze.

- Not Left Footed: Player Melee attacks deal +5% damage.

- Overwhelm: Standard weapon-based skill. Follows player weapon for element (so no EleComp). Costs 100% melee in SP. Deals +20% damage against monsters with PowerLevel > 1.5, deals -10% damage otherwise.

Couple of updates:

quote:

- Second Wind: Quickcast skill. Charges 100% melee in SP and tracks player melee Hits while using the (Master) Fighter Class armor over the next 2 turns. Afterwards, heals player HP equal to (110x[Hits2Turns]/4)% melee. This heal has 1 hit, a 1/3 BR lean. Damage type of the heal is Melee and it scales with STR for stat bonuses. [Hits2Turns] has a Maximum of 8.

- Momentum: Toggle skill. Charges 25% melee in SP per turn. Attempts to inflict a +(40/1.4/0.85/2x[Hits/Attempts])% = +(21x[Hits/Attempts])% damage taken Omni EleVuln effect for 1 turns. This has a +0 Save Bonus, player STR/LUK vs. monster DEX/LUK.

< Message edited by Lv 1000 -- 9/24/2022 23:54:43 >

Post #: 31

9/25/2022 2:35:39

Guardswordian
Member

It's good that we got a new Ice armor, but I still wish that the class skills were available for the Master armors as well. Otherwise, I don't think this armor is worth the cost... It also doesn't make sense that a Master of the class can't use the skills of the class.

Post #: 32

9/25/2022 6:58:08

Sapphire
Member

May I ask? Why is it that we have a class armor with 5 skills, then a "master" armor with only some of the skills? (Less kills) I guess I would have thought the master version would have all 5 just scaled to level...

Post #: 33

9/25/2022 8:59:27

Dreiko Shadrack
Member

quote:

Tier 1 and 2 classes, as a core element of the game's progression, have been at the center of a number of discussions on necessary improvements to the overall experience. As they're severely outdated, it's only natural to want to see them redone to modern standards, strengthening the foundation of all classes.

However, most of our players would miss out on them, having already reached the level cap. The idea of fully scaling classes has been suggested, but has some major issues. While understandable in the sense of not wanting to miss out on new content by the unintentionally punishing notion of outleveling it, would be extremely bad for the game. Any single fully scaling class would dominate its respective element, making it virtually pointless to release non-class armors for it, and cut off design space for Tier 3 class skills. We'd have dozens of skills to avoid overlapping with when designing Archmage.

Source: https://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=22400627

TLDR: T1 and T2 classes won't fully scale to endgame, master armors are compromises meant to allow you to use some noteworthy class skills from those classes at endgame while not fully running into powercreep problems.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 34

9/25/2022 10:17:15

battlesiege15
Member

Can the Master armor keep the passives with a title bonus?

AQW

Post #: 35

9/25/2022 10:20:32

Sapphire
Member

^^ Thanks

Post #: 36

9/25/2022 11:23:24

Bolter
Member

The head proportion to the armor needs readjusting, the head is too small, and yeah the feet is also way too odd in my opinion.

AQ	Post #: 37

9/25/2022 11:34:33

Dreiko Shadrack
Member

quote:

Can the Master armor keep the passives with a title bonus?

That would kinda defeat the point of the master armor, it's supposed to be able to be used without the class title as title lockouts are the standard now.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 38

9/25/2022 12:40:00

Heroes of the Scape
Member

Falltide Dagger had come back before in 2020 and did not leave until April of 2021. The "perm rare promise" was already "broken".

AQ	Post #: 39

9/25/2022 13:18:13

PD
Member

Does anyone know what the level ranges for classes is supposed to be these days? I vaguely remember something about Assassin being effective to level 90 but I can't imagine any established level ranges are accurate anymore. The mentioned design note about Classes doesn't really make it clear what the level ranges for each tier are supposed to be.

Also not sure if anyone has reported this yet, but it seems that the Overwhelm skill despite being weapon-based doesn't apply on-hit effects like normal weapon-based skills do. Hopefully that gets fixed soon.

Also a little bit of extra strategy: It seems that 100-proc melee weapons work, as well as weapons with skills that are tagged as melee-type (IE, Dreamweaver, Paleskull Sword or Briar Blade). There could be some niche interactions with skill-weapons that have lots of hits to regenerate ridiculous amounts of HP at a time.

@Heroes: Thanks! Although maybe someone should check the scaling on the Base Class Armor to see if the scaling actually works (if it even should scale?)? At least the elemental and MRM mods don't seem different between my level 40 char and level 150 char.

< Message edited by PD -- 9/25/2022 13:50:09 >

Post #: 40

9/25/2022 13:33:13

Heroes of the Scape
Member

I think updated T1 is supposed to be up to level 70, T2 level 130 and T3 150. Previously it was supposed to be T1 level 50, T2 level 70, T3 level 90 and T3.5 level 120.

AQ	Post #: 41

9/25/2022 16:12:57

PD
Member

Just went around checking and several places although the actual requirments have changed, still reference level 10 Fighter:

Artix on the Paladin intro still in-text references level 10 mage and fighter

Blackhawke's dialogue in the inn references level 10 fighter.

Also, not that anyone really uses Martial Artist, but that too require level 10 Fighter. Maybe next year we'll revamp this. Maybe.

< Message edited by PD -- 9/25/2022 16:17:17 >

Post #: 42

9/25/2022 21:22:10

Korriban Gaming
Banned

quote:

Also not sure if anyone has reported this yet, but it seems that the Overwhelm skill despite being weapon-based doesn't apply on-hit effects like normal weapon-based skills do. Hopefully that gets fixed soon.

Also a little bit of extra strategy: It seems that 100-proc melee weapons work, as well as weapons with skills that are tagged as melee-type (IE, Dreamweaver, Paleskull Sword or Briar Blade). There could be some niche interactions with skill-weapons that have lots of hits to regenerate ridiculous amounts of HP at a time.

Doesn't matter. Assuming the unofficial subs posted are correct, the skill's power is limited to 8 hits aka 220% melee worth of healing

AQW

Post #: 43

9/25/2022 23:12:33

Dreiko Shadrack
Member

quote:

I think updated T1 is supposed to be up to level 70, T2 level 130 and T3 150. Previously it was supposed to be T1 level 50, T2 level 70, T3 level 90 and T3.5 level 120.

Nope, from what I've seen it's more like this:
T1 scales up to 30
T2 scales up to 70
T3 scales up to 120

T1 and T2 will have master armors for endgame and T3 will have the endgame armors with stat emphasis variants we've seen from necro and paladin.

quote:

Also not sure if anyone has reported this yet, but it seems that the Overwhelm skill despite being weapon-based doesn't apply on-hit effects like normal weapon-based skills do. Hopefully that gets fixed soon.

It's been reported and yes it is in-fact a bug. Here's to hoping for a swift fix.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 44

9/26/2022 9:45:58

Lorekeeper
And Pun-isher

The bugged higher levels on the scaling for fighter quests should be fixed now.

Post #: 45

9/26/2022 10:43:21

Zennistrad
Member

Now that I've had some more time to play with it, I'd like to comment that the Fighter armor's attack looks a bit weird to me. It looks like your character just kind of punches with their weapon hand, without actually hitting your opponent with the weapon.

The armor design looks excellent but I'm not sure how to visually parse the standard attack animation

AQ	Post #: 46

9/26/2022 11:53:15

Ianthe

formerly In Media Res

quote:

Also not sure if anyone has reported this yet, but it seems that the Overwhelm skill despite being weapon-based doesn't apply on-hit effects like normal weapon-based skills do. Hopefully that gets fixed soon.

Whoops, accidentally tagged it as "no weapon effects" when I meant "no type-changing effects". Fixed!

AQ	Post #: 47

9/26/2022 20:50:14

PD
Member

Thanks IMR!!! And for fixing the unfair scaling on the quest line too!

Also contrary to what people are saying, I have no problems with the weird Peter Pan Elf Fairy-Elf Shoes on the Fighter Class.

And on another note, still seems unclear whether the Base Fighter Class armor is supposed to scale at all? If it is, it definitely doesn't seem to. And the design notes still don't seem clear on what the exact level ranges of classes are supposed to be here. Pinging LoreKeeper on this one.

< Message edited by PD -- 9/26/2022 20:54:22 >

Post #: 48

9/28/2022 14:32:36

archmage777
Member

I have a question, forgive me for knowing so little of the mechanics: how can you tell if a monster's PwrLevel is above 1.5, for the Fighter's Overwhelm skill? And does this mean the skill is simply useless in some fights?

DF	Post #: 49

10/1/2022 20:34:41

Lorekeeper
And Pun-isher

Pardon the belated reply! Power 1.5 refers to minibosses, which makes the trigger apply to them and all bosses. The skill is not simply useless when not triggered; it has a mere 10% damage penalty against normal enemies.

Post #: 50

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