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2/6/2024 0:36:07   
And Pun-isher



This thread is for the discussion of the balance of the INT changes of the imminent stat revamp. This is where players can provide formula and balance concerns about the new features in general and stats relative to each other. Is anything broken? Do you anticipate any broken interactions or technical concerns we seem to be missing?

This is not a general discussion or general opinion thread. To provide feedback beyond this point, it's essential to familiarize yourself with the concepts of balance in the context of AQ ( Explained in this thread). Feedback must be concrete and presented in a constructive manner. To that end, we will have to be stricter with its content. The more grounded in the game's concepts a point is, the more likely we are to be able to work with it.

This thread is set to open at a point after noon EST on Tuesday the 6th.

Current summary of upcoming changes:



Base Behavior Changes: None.

Style Bonus:
  • Wallbreaker: Value adjusted to a 15% melee style bonus. Formula buffed to +[(INT/ExpectedINT)*(100-MonsterEleMod)/130]%

  • < Message edited by Ward_Point -- 2/6/2024 11:20:57 >
    Post #: 1
    2/7/2024 13:26:06   

    I remember the wallbreaker idea was originally submitted as an actual adjustment to the element, and not an outright damage boost. The adjustment in the element similar to how freeze like effects work resulted in a damage boost, but the distinction is important in terms of how this will affect element scaling statuses.

    So is wallbreaker just a damage boost or does it actually alter the monster's element?

    Post #: 2
    2/7/2024 16:53:13   
    Grace Xisthrith

    Balance Analysis:

    We have a standard for attacking off element, that's the dogwater sorry my cat stepped on the keyboard, less optimal mimic GGB pets. 130 / 115 multiplier, or 1.13x multiplier

    15% melee should be given out by this style bonus.

    Spells make that 7.5% damage.

    Res +%dmg Account for res
    10 34.6 3.5
    20 30.8 6.2
    30 26.9 8.1
    40 23.1 9.2
    50 19.2 9.6
    60 15.4 9.2
    70 11.5 8.1
    80 7.7 6.2
    90 3.8 3.5
    100 0.0 0

    Account for res is dividing the damage boost by the resistance, since you're not actually getting much out of a +35% damage boost if it's hitting 10%. Maybe an unfair metric, idk.

    I'd wager the effect does need that 1.13x multiplier for attacking suboptimal element, if it were to be balanced correctly. Or some type of modifier, there's like 14 different element lock modifiers, maybe I don't have the perfect one, but there is one somewhere
    I'd also wager it should scale from ~half of expected value at 90% to ~1.5x expected value at 10% (no real balance reason, scaling from least useful to most useful based on intensity of resistance makes logical sense though given it's a penetration effect IMO. Or just try to get them all to 15% melee even). If we're still going off 15% melee, that would mean you'd need 7.5% damage x1.5 accounting for resistance... (maybe add the 1.13x multiplier but i CBA) +100% damage would probably be closer to balanced for 10% res. Obviously problematic due to damage scaling effects, but there aren't any spells that do that elementally
    Quick aside, all this ignores spell features should get a 2.5x multiplier, because you know, spells, and the all important turn model. A way to solve this is to have it affect all attack types, and not be normalized so it doesn't de-motivate spellcasting. Show me a weapon based skill with elecomp to actually gain benefit with this feature over harm and I'll say it's a bad idea to have it affect all attack types.

    Another thing is this should probably get an anti always useful penalty or something, since it's only triggered in already suboptimal situations. Maybe that's the mimic penalty above, maybe not. / .9 or something idk.

    Equation implies it's scaled by INT / Expected INT. Does this mean with Arcane amp, armor drive, shield and misc I can get 2x output from this feature? Can't see another reason why it would have INT / Expected INT, since you already need Expected INT to get the feature to turn on at full power anyways. Not having enough stats already weakens the feature, so the logic of the INT / Expected seems to be for cases above expected INT.

    Multiply the numbers by 2.5 or make it affect all attack styles (bonus of being more hybrid friendly)
    Feature is probably underpowered ignoring above multiplier by a significant margin as advertised
    Rarely useful / suboptimal element bonus multiplier
    Does it scale with INT

    PS: Numbers in example on page 7 post seem to be slightly wrong. Is that just rounding for ease of reading?
    AQ  Post #: 3
    2/7/2024 18:03:07   

    I thing I'm thinking, since this is concerning INT build, Necromancer is almost certain to be in your inventory. And the class has access to two source of Harm, one spell/skill and one through a guest summon/call. A beastmaster mage seems pretty much set, because they can summon the harm guest without issue. Without CHA, there's still the Harm Fear spell, which can be a risk depending the monster's element (worse being Light). Then again the fear gives you 50% chance of not acting, 80%+ at 2nd cast, so the odds aren't that bad. You can always tank one hit, then the monster will have high chance of not acting on turn 2 and more. Of course you also use Celerity to double cast in turn 1.

    In order to use this particular style bonus, I would have to ignore Necromancer armor, which seems an unlikely scenario for most people. And who knows what Archmage class will bring (this is still a thing right?).

    This is probably exclusively useful against boss with low resistance I suppose, where it's pretty given boss will have Freedom or alternatively high status resistance.
    AQ  Post #: 4
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