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RE: Friday, April 5th Design Notes: Book 3: Convergence - Convergence (Part 2)

 
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4/9/2024 21:20:52   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*


DA owners with zero curiosity are notoriously bad at determining difficulty.
I'm reminded of the time that all but one person who thought the Tizheruk was impossible... was a level 90 v1 owner.
It is so condescending that players who literally did not bother to learn the fight (and gave up immediately) act like they're helping by saying the fight is too hard for a demographic that doesn't even exist. This says less about Jaania being a ridiculous increase in difficulty so much as that every main story fight until now was apparently beatable without any strategy.
Why even play an RPG if you're just going to get mad when it doesn't immediately roll over for you?

< Message edited by The ErosionSeeker -- 4/9/2024 21:24:45 >
DF AQW  Post #: 26
4/9/2024 23:12:23   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

Rest assured, TFS, your concerns are definitely within the parameters of my statement. And it definitely puts a smile on my face about NDAs having more combat literacy as I have been NDA for a long time (not a Beta or older, but definitely grew along with this game. Lee might claim this is false as I told'em that my DA tenure is 2/3 of my gaming tenure, but that was just putting it lightly) before earning greater glory as a DA holder.

Honestly, the root cause of all these is not much that we locked the huge bulk of hard fights behind the Inn for almost 7 years since the aforementioned zone's introduction. Perhaps it might have exacerbated it, but not on its own. Entitled DA holders -especially long timers- aside, the real problem is that all this strategic play is pretty much currently locked behind Book 3. You have all these classes whose skills and mechanics have been modernized, both as far back as Ashendal's time (yeah, Necro is still solid) and now Dove and Verly's (pretty much every other class), yet the bigger bulk of the progression (Books One and Two) are in the backwater. The result, look at AQW. Stagnant, mostly HP sponges asking for a Chrono's assist to bring down sooner if a player just has not enough time to deal with the combat despite the relative ease. Not much room to foster strategic thinking as is appropriate for both these games. And no, this game not being Dark Souls does not justify. A strategy game is a strategy game. Which is why part of what we are most likely looking at on how the DF devs will reimagine the previous Books is how to foster that growth and tactical mindset. For now, it is a gritted consolation that if any player wants to get the glaive at this quest and they decided to Easy Mode it, they'll have to fork out some DCs (talk about showing a whale attitude in a game where you earn power).


< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 4/9/2024 23:16:28 >
DF AQW  Post #: 27
4/12/2024 4:22:02   
Roxas45
Member

Hopefully i dont end up derailing the conversation here, but even with a long time, not everyone is required to be a DA holder - that was kinda the whole point wasn't it?
Not to mention, it wasn't until recently that I was able to get the DA related thing on my own, without requiring outside assistance.

I also dont have a DA on every single one of my characters, and I DO like to change it up a little here and there.
I'm only asking about the story based fights - hell, even with DMK unlocked, I'm having torubles with the Inn fights for the most part - so Its not even going into my consideration when I say this.

Jaania being - Sorry. This whole thing has been an odd culmination of the whole origin of Dragonfable of sorts.
At the very beginning We met Warlic (a staple character if you've also played AQ Classic) and only had an inkling of Warlic's back story, and how it dealt with Xan - then we got the Alexander additional character, where we MET Jaania - and then the whole of the second book with the Infernals.
Then Book 3? A mighty push that still revolved around these characters (In one branch of the mainline quests. No need to nitpick here)

DA Holder or not, I daresay there are elements of the story that are compelling to see from that viewpoint itself, and it would be a shame if parts of it (Looking at you Dr When) are locked up behind a difficulty spike (Dr When), or worse, a paywall for a game that is advertised as F2p.
YES, DA's exist and are an integral part of the plot but...

I play AQW as well, and MQ (Rest in peace my beloved Starship) - and I've never paid for AQW but I have for DF and MQ. Easily some of the best investments made, but I STILL think that there shouldn't be STORY locked behind a necessity to pay to win. AQW has that thing where you go "Why isn't it working?" and someone will suggest that you pay 6 K ACs for a Chrono Class.
In DF, from what I remember from the last... ooh... Decade? of being here - if you asked "Why isn't it working?", someone would suggest classes, items, strategies, etc...
And from what I remember, most of those were very much Free Player friendly. I dont recall (take this with a grain of salt - I've got a memory like a Sneevil) anyone saying "Git gud, buy a DA scrub" (paraphrased).

That said, I'm a bit behind, and I think I'm missing a few messages.
Was anyone able to try beating Jaania via Ninja, Paladin, and/or Technomancer by any chance?
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 28
4/12/2024 5:31:33   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

quote:

Was anyone able to try beating Jaania via Ninja, Paladin, and/or Technomancer by any chance?

This is assuming the context is Jaania Normal:
  1. If Pyro can do a "do not try this at home" run on EX, why can't Ninja on Normal? Ninja v Jaania Easy is an "I ain't even thinking (much)" run as zero changes to the Endgame wiki recommended rotations for the aforementioned class was necessary.
  2. Of the six runs I had against Normal, five of those were Paladin, and was a breeze compared to DmK, the latter of which is of course more attributed to it being a blind confrontation (my first run, no pedia entries yet). I even dared and won A SEVENTH with Paladin and with a somewhat NDA approach (made even the mistake of allocating 45 stats to CHA when I was depending on Stan the whole time) to answer your NDA concern on page one of this DNs thread.
  3. Technomancer? Just like the Pyro example cited. At this point, you're just having to improve your research capabilities because YT has vids of them.
Now, your next argument would probably on the NDA side. While I still have roleplaying tendencies (which explains probably why I still use a 130 INT/STR, 85 END, 100 WIS build as opposed to the 200/200/45 construct nowadays), remind that this game has enough NDC classes to give the player the winning hand that will offer, if I were to borrow TFS' remarks, a "path of least resistance even if it's less enjoyable". One day, you'll learn to be pragmatic as I feel you're still like me 2-3 years back. Brute forcing things with CW, DmK, or both, blind to the potential that other classes possess. To say that you should only rely on one class throughout is stubbornness, and will only add to the never-ending "what is the definition of fun" arguments.

quote:

DA Holder or not, I daresay there are elements of the story that are compelling to see from that viewpoint itself, and it would be a shame if parts of it (Looking at you Dr When) are locked up behind a difficulty spike (Dr When), or worse, a paywall for a game that is advertised as F2p.

Now this brings shame to me. I was one of those NDAs when Dr. When was freshly released. I was there when guests amped up monster's HP values to hell. And I was there to confront the aforementioned heathen monster with said guest handicaps and won before the Titan finale of Book 1 was released (he fled, but at that point he was gonna go 0 HP before I did no matter the crit probabilities or critical misses). The point of the arguments made prior to your butting in this far is not insomuch as you're DA or NDA, but on showing effort deserving of the strategy aspects of this game. Sure, DCs still exist to bypass drop RNGs, but you're otherwise free to toil the drop RNGs before max level. And during that time and while you are already max level, learn the classes you have under your belt. Strengths and weaknesses, rigidity and flexibilty. Those alone can cover you even with shoddy gear for your level. So, the effort I'm referring to? That includes wit, patience, and a growth mindset, the latter of which is why I structured my small root cause analysis on my previous post as such. Go ahead and numb yourself on the mobs, but not on the bosses. Deal with the full experience of encountering them, both satisfying and frustrating. Otherwise, it'll just be a papier-mâché "Please make it a challenge for me" (bonus point if you get the MCU reference) when all your braincells have is v1 Life Carve ad infinitum/nauseam.

< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 4/12/2024 5:32:18 >
DF AQW  Post #: 29
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