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RE: =AQ= Frostval Season of Gifting Returns

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12/13/2024 15:20:43   
Aura Knight
Member

So does just the first character get them or is it random to any of the up to 10 per login?
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 51
12/13/2024 17:06:28   
Branl
Member

quote:

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22419786

Extremely good changes that have long been needed.

EDIT: Now all we need is for donations on the top X to all be changed from character to account so you can't place several of your own characters in them and have them hog spaces.


Agreed, figured it'd be a fairly difficult thing to do, so I didn't expect to see it until maybe next contest. I'm happy to see that issue ironed out so soon. Certainly takes the fun out of donating when you donate 80,000 tokens to yourself or tokens to "storage 2".
I am, like Aura Knight, curious as to which character is designated to receive the account based donations.

EDIT: Apparently it chooses characters to distribute donations to randomly among active characters. Very interesting.
AQ DF  Post #: 52
12/13/2024 21:23:15   
Aura Knight
Member

I don't like this change and fear it will drastically reduce overall donations which is a loss for everyone. I think this attempt at fairness will bring about the end of the generosity previously seen from this event but maybe I'm just pessimistic. Numbers will show the truth.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 53
12/14/2024 0:30:03   
Bu Kek Siansu
Member
 
http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22419578
quote:

  • 10 new Verdant Earth Frostval Crown Misc items are being given away DAILY for everyone that gifts either gold or Z-Tokens (5 daily for gold, 5 daily for Z-Token). You can double your chances of winning if you gift both gold and Z-Tokens in a single day!


    • quote:

    Verdant Frostval Crown of Precision

    Description:
    This festive crown fills you with the precision of a Frostval toymaker!
    It modifies your Lucky Strikes, doubling their frequency -
    but the power it brings halves the damage from LUK when they occur!


    Many players like the big numbers from LS.

    Would it be possible to add an option to pay the damage penalty in HP+SP instead?


    Post #: 54
    12/14/2024 1:29:59   
    NightofLight
    Member
     

    		 Still thinking this through but if we wanted to tie the effect to earth but didn't want to use a damage bonus or resistance one thing I think could be interesting and tie it to luck without adding luck would be added potency for earth based attacks.
    AQ  Post #: 55
    12/14/2024 5:44:05   
    CH4OT1C!
    Member

    		The shift towards donation distribution by account rather than by character is an excellent change, one that has sorely been needed for years. It's also wonderful to see that the staff are taking feedback from the Summer into account, and have been able to start making changes this quickly.

    @Aura Knight: I would expect the donation total to decrease given the circumstances. This is due to donations reaching the players that need them more quickly, resulting in a reduced rate of regifting. That isn't a reflection on generosity.
    @Bu Kek Siansu: As @Lorekeeper pointed out here, the staff are currently looking into performing a LS overhaul. For that reason, they don't want to revamp the Crown's main effect (such as in the way you describe) at this time.
    AQ  Post #: 56
    12/14/2024 9:30:57   
    Snowbound
    Member
     

    		 Very annoying change to the way donations work, i think this is going to hurt the company in the long run, i see the incentive to buy and donate tokens kinda going down after this
    Post #: 57
    12/14/2024 10:03:10   
      Lorekeeper
    And Pun-isher

     
    quote:

    I don't like this change and fear it will drastically reduce overall donations which is a loss for everyone. I think this attempt at fairness will bring about the end of the generosity previously seen from this event but maybe I'm just pessimistic. Numbers will show the truth.


    Without this change, gifts are ten times as likely to go to a player who maintains ten alts than to someone who plays casually or keeps their gameplay lunchbreak-sized. The concentration of gifts around a small number of players isn't in any way becoming of a gifting contest that rewards generosity. Generosity is, by definition, not conditional on an inherently unfair situation, and it's in our best interest to not be unfair to our players.
    Post #: 58
    12/14/2024 10:25:35   
    Sir Cloud
    Member

    quote:

    Very annoying change to the way donations work, i think this is going to hurt the company in the long run, i see the incentive to buy and donate tokens kinda going down after this

    You would think so. I mean it now only serves to punish players with multi-character accounts (many of who actually support the game). Very little incentive (with this move) to actually create extra characters other than for monthly GGBs or extra storage space. However, many of us actually do play and contribute from those extra characters and are getting punished to the tune of 10x times less Tokens received in donations for doing so? Makes zero sense for a business to do this tbh; especially since Anyone is fully capable of creating other characters for token pool eligibility at any time they choose, for Free. It takes very little effort to do and will encourage participation, not laziness.

    Am forwarding this via PM to Hollow for further input.

    < Message edited by Sir Cloud -- 12/14/2024 11:15:35 >
    AQ  Post #: 59
    12/14/2024 11:04:19   
    Alexszander
    Member
     

    		 Without this change, when it comes to the dono events, the game was perfectly fair towards casuals and "hardcore".
    There is absolutely nothing stopping a player from leveling 9 more alts or less if he has more than 1 main character and potentially reaping the same rewards as a "hardcore" player. It takes around 45 mins of playtime to level up a character from 1 to 30+ (for donos, only 25 is required if I remember correctly). That is very much within the realm of a "lunchbreak-sized" timeframe. Over less than 2 weeks, only during "lunchbreak", a casual player can ready his army of alts for the dono event, a one time only activity which will benefit them for the rest of the time they decide to play this game.
    "Generosity is, by definition, not conditional on an inherently unfair situation, and it's in our best interest to not be unfair to our players." - There is no such thing as an unfair situation in this particular case. New and existing players are not restricted from creating free alts, just like "hardcore" players do. Every single player has the same options and can do the same things.
    If you wish to be fair and help along your players, lower the level required to receive donations from 25 to 20 for the winter dono, then 15 for the summer dono.
    Starting next year's winter dono, the 2025 one, make an announcement months ahead where you specify the level required to receive donos will be increased by 5 for each future donation event - this way, you will actively encourage players to level their alts, gear them up and play your game more, in a gentle manner, that doesn't eat too much of their playtime. Additionally, raise the amount of misc items awarded every day from 10 back to 20 and increase it with each future donation event by 5 or 10 - all in the name of generosity, because we all very much appreciate when the game staff is generous with us.
    Post #: 60
    12/14/2024 11:05:29   
    Aura Knight
    Member

    quote:

    Without this change, gifts are ten times as likely to go to a player who maintains ten alts than to someone who plays casually or keeps their gameplay lunchbreak-sized.


    What's wrong with this? Anyone can make decent alts to take advantage of the previous way. And use of alts can be done casually too. Majority of mine leveled using lazyquest so there's little excuse for others. After that I individually geared them by questing so I think each deserves the same chance to be rewarded.

    quote:

    Generosity is, by definition, not conditional on an inherently unfair situation, and it's in our best interest to not be unfair to our players.


    Except this is very unfair to all who take advantage of the option to use alts because it hurts those without? What fairness is there in forcing everyone to the gaming standards of the lazy? We're approaching 2025 with AQ being quite an old game. I can't believe there's people who don't play multiple characters.

    This will ruin profit and become a regrettable decision for AQ.
    AQ DF AQW  Post #: 61
    12/14/2024 11:25:44   
      Lorekeeper
    And Pun-isher

     

    		 Arguing for a return to unfair treatment by insulting players who didn't benefit from it is neither helping the point nor following the rules.
    Post #: 62
    12/14/2024 11:33:23   
    Sapphire
    Member

    quote:

    To promote a more balanced distribution of gifts, we've rolled out the following updates to the Season of Gifting contests:

    Eligibility for receiving Gold and Z-Token gifts has been changed to account-based rather than character-based. This ensures players receive the same amount of gifts regardless of whether they login with one character or ten.
    Implemented a safeguard to prevent players from unintentionally gifting Gold or Z-Tokens to their own characters.


    I was and am only for this with a single caveat... And that is/was that other changes get made to further incentivize even more donating. I outlined much of this in those older threads, and it mostly pertained to the summer contest. I'm not so sure it will be helpful here with this Winter contest. The winter contest doesn't have enough incentive to donate to initiate this change. Even the summer contest , if left exactly as it was this past summer, doesn't have enough incentive. This change is a half measure without implementing further changes to offset the lower donations players will be receiving as a result.

    In a vacuum, this change is bad. For example, if a players who was using 10 chars in the summer contest received 100k token donos , this will probably lower their donos significantly. You are disincentivizing "going for the top prizes" because of the reliance of gaining tokens, which is now less. Unless these changes are made:

    1. Expansion of dev ticket to top 10 (I said top 5 and 6-10 would be slightly different ideas)
    2. Top 25 get color custom
    3. Gaurantee all base non color custom items with specific donation amounts. All donation specific thresholds to be much higher than the previous guarantees.
    4. Change the daily drawing item midway through the contest to push up more and more 25 token donos (these add up)

    And some other small changes


    Without these to try and offset the account based change (which lowers donos for those actively able to participate while increasing it for players with less than 10 chars..ie less invested people.) Then this change will prove to be a failure. And the current winter contest wasn't designed with this change in mind. So good luck managing anything resembling a success with this one.

    Hopefully some of these ideas will be taken to heart for the summer and next winter can attempt some of the same ideas. This change CAN BE a positive, but requires other changes for it to be. This change in of itself with nothing else changed will result in a bad idea.

    Question, account based works how exactly? It would be nice to know the specific mechanics? Does it go to a random char on the account? Oldest? Anyone know?


    < Message edited by Sapphire -- 12/14/2024 11:36:01 >
    Post #: 63
    12/14/2024 11:37:38   
      Lorekeeper
    And Pun-isher

     

    		 Gifts are distributed to a random eligible character (Played within the last 24 hours) within the account that receives them.
    Post #: 64
    12/14/2024 11:38:52   
    dizzle
    Member
     

    		 While I’ve already spoken on this, and tbh I’m not too pressed about it anymore bc it does make QoL easier, the reasoning for the change is curious.

    quote:

    Arguing for a return to unfair treatment


    quote:

    Generosity is, by definition, not conditional on an inherently unfair situation, and it's in our best interest to not be unfair to our players.


    AQ is completely f2p and anyone can make up 10 chars. There is literally nothing “inherently” unfair. If the decision was made to pander to players who do not want to spend the time to make more chars then that’s fine, that’s the devs decision to make. But just say that then lol

    Edit: UNLESS this decision was made with the sole focus of having players in mind who have just made a return to the game and do not have time to level up all their chars in time before the contest ends. And you want to give these players an equal chance to place in the top threshold for gold as the regulars. In which case, fair enough. I’m curious how many people have missed out on the top X threshold for the gold dono contest over the years because they got to the contest too late and didn’t have time to make more chars. One could probably assume tho that if they did get to the contest late then they wouldn’t have enough opportunities to receive enough gold donos *anyway* regardless of how many chars they have, esp since the thresholds climb every year. Also esp because you can’t really “snipe” a gold spot. Gold donos take time and over the years most everyone donates most of their gold through the first half of the contest anyway. Idk just very weird reasoning but fair enough at least logging daily wins is faster now!

    < Message edited by dizzle -- 12/14/2024 11:54:31 >
    AQ  Post #: 65
    12/14/2024 11:43:17   
    CarrionSpike
    Member

    		Love the change to the donation system, definitely makes these contests fairer. I am glad that I don't have to maintain 10 characters for these contests anymore, it's a level of tedium that is not enjoyable, especially when I have graduate studies, work, and other games that I want to play. I also don't think this will impact how much people are willing to donate, kinda weird to assume that donators give as much as they do just for the people that maintain 10 eligible characters. If anything this means that more people will more frequently be receive the generosity of donators which is just a straight-up positive thing I would think.

    < Message edited by CarrionSpike -- 12/14/2024 11:46:31 >
    Post #: 66
    12/14/2024 11:46:57   
    Alexszander
    Member
     
    quote:

    Arguing for a return to unfair treatment by insulting players who didn't benefit from it is neither helping the point nor following the rules.

    There is nothing unfair, as I've mentioned in my previous post. Choosing to ignore that is neither helping nor following the rules of a proper conversation.
    Every single player has the option and time to create alts, it takes very little time to level said alts to lvl 25 in order to be eligible for donations.
    If you want to talk about fairness, lower the level required to receive donations, so that everyone can have a much easier time benefiting from donations.
    Post #: 67
    12/14/2024 11:49:00   
    Aura Knight
    Member

    quote:

    Arguing for a return to unfair treatment by insulting players who didn't benefit from it is neither helping the point nor following the rules.


    Don't downplay my legitimate complaint as insult. There's no rule against not liking change. The claim of the old way being unfair can only have validity if character creation is limited but we all have up to 10 character slots per account. It's not the fault of those who use all that there's others who use fewer. The previous way was the most fair. Everyone can just make alts.
    AQ DF AQW  Post #: 68
    12/14/2024 11:53:16   
    Sir Cloud
    Member

    quote:

    I am glad that I don't have to maintain 10 characters for these contests anymore

    It's actually quite easy, there was never anything to "have to maintain" unless you wanted to. All you had to do (before this unfortunate change) was simply create FREE additional characters and log a saved battle only once daily, lol
    You could then receive additional Tokens on your characters for that small effort on your part, that's all that is required. Instead they chose to punish those of us who log in, donate and play on those extra characters. How's that for the so-called "unfair treatment"?

    < Message edited by Sir Cloud -- 12/14/2024 15:04:57 >
    AQ  Post #: 69
    12/14/2024 11:54:06   
    Sapphire
    Member

    		Yes, this will cause some QoL improvements. It's one of the reasons I was potentially on board with this, but again, it needs other changes for this to be viewed as a success.

    Experienced, dedicated players take a loss in order to give new, less dedicated players more. Unless you can improve the system to have it be good for all, this will result in less donos for veterans and is a slap in the face.


    Post #: 70
    12/14/2024 12:11:53   
      Lorekeeper
    And Pun-isher

     
    quote:

    Don't downplay my legitimate complaint as insult. There's no rule against not liking change. The claim of the old way being unfair can only have validity if character creation is limited but we all have up to 10 character slots per account. It's not the fault of those who use all that there's others who use fewer. The previous way was the most fair. Everyone can just make alts.


    I am not misrepresenting your words. Quite the reverse is happening. I am objecting to insulting players as lazy. There is a rule against flaming, and it does not follow the rules of any proper conversation to preemptively dismiss people as lazy.

    As of other feedback, it is not being dismissed. It's being politely disagreed with. The entire point is to not require the management of ten alt characters to comparatively stand a chance, giving all active players an equal chance to receive any given gift. Yes, this is in no small part because it's awful to tell a returning player that they need to farm 9 more characters to level 25+ and multiply their playtime tenfold to stand a chance in a gifting contest that's about generosity in the first place. It's also an important measure of the context of the RNG system being used. Flash is very far from having the best RNG, and every year has shown anomalies where some IDs continually get rolled for gifts while other eligible ones receive none over multiple years.

    A more equal distribution of gifts is inherently fairer to the community as a whole, and the second best counter we can manage to sticky RNG, as otherwise we'd only be able to tackle that by making an entirely new game in a different engine. By rolling an account and then a character, there are two RNG components instead of a single point of failure, and if a player should find that their preferred character appears to be bizarrely unlucky in receiving gifts, they can let it go inactive for 24 hours.

    There is certainly room for further QoL improvement, and we will continue to improve the gifting events. However, if we were to entertain the notion that to experience any reduced benefit from an unequal situation is to be punished, then we would have to similarly say that the prior situation was a punishment on everyone who didn't know to maintain ten alt characters. And we would not be so callous as to accuse the other party in a discussion of having pursued unfairness and their favorable odds coming at the expense of a reduction of other people's odds. It would be an arbitrarily negative framing.
    Post #: 71
    12/14/2024 12:14:51   
    dizzle
    Member
     

    		 While we’re at making it fair for everyone, can we also make it so that my account with only adventurers are just as eligible to receive 100M donos? It seems like fairness is the standard we’re aiming for and lvl 135 adventurers get very very very very few 100M donos in comparison to lvl 150 chars. And that *is* inherently unfair since I can’t really level my adventurer up past 135.

    < Message edited by dizzle -- 12/14/2024 12:26:42 >
    AQ  Post #: 72
    12/14/2024 12:17:59   
    Sapphire
    Member

    		Want to know what's hilarious?

    Since this was implemented after the contest began, I played 10 chars and since this is being randomly distributed amongst the 10 who has played in the last 24 hours, I need to play 10 chars to find the donations. And thus, making them all eligible again. So for me, I have to make the decision to play all 10 for the remainder just in case or decide to forget it, just play 1 and if I get them on a char today/tomorrow then I'll find out later. Also I now need to remember who I played the day before. Great...........Now I have to keep track of who I played in order to continue to "be generous"

    This change should have been made on the front side or waited until summer and announced on the front side. It's a half measure at this point. That doesn't make me completely against it at this time. But I have to question the timing/implementation for sure. But I can guess, and likely hit the mark.

    < Message edited by Sapphire -- 12/14/2024 12:20:02 >
    Post #: 73
    12/14/2024 12:27:48   
    Aura Knight
    Member

    		Refusal to use alts when it's easy to do so is a choice easily described as lazy. It's not at all difficult to maintain those alts to the bare minimum for donation advantage. All my characters are individually unique so why shouldn't they all get rewarded equally?
    AQ DF AQW  Post #: 74
    12/14/2024 12:37:15   
    Sapphire
    Member

    		Oh. Also.... I have been playing 10 chars and obtaining gold on each. LY, I saved up on all of them to collect gold chests. I had started this process again (or maybe I'll donate ) and have received a lot of gold thus far. But now, in order to continue this (because I have 3 chars that need 1 more 100 mil dono) I need to continue playing them.

    Man, the more I think about the ramifications the more I am starting to laugh at the timing.
    Post #: 75
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