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RE: =ED= New Balance Update

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4/10/2011 6:45:54   
Drianx
Member

@Wise: Just because you, one of the best players with the absolute best equipment ever released, are dominant as a str merc - or any other class/build - does not mean that str mercs are overpowered. Please use some detailed statistics - if you can extract them from the game DB - to evaluate balance. Or simply use regular non-rare varium/ non-varium equipment instead of the strongest rares ever.
AQW Epic  Post #: 76
4/10/2011 6:51:03   
MirageD
Member

quote:

At the current low threshold of 50 stats, most high level players have at least 1 stat that's been diminished by this change. If anything, this change does the most to hurt balanced builds, who will suffer diminished returns on all their stats, rather than Strength builds which will suffer only in Strength. In terms of relative power, the diminishing returns of stats simply brought everyone down together. It didn't have the intended effect of hitting extreme builds harder than non-extreme builds.


i agree with ashari....i have a +4 focus build and got penalized for 3 of my stats (dex, tech and support)...i think weapons/armor enhancements should not be counted in the diminishing returns...stick to the basic stats only....then this might work
AQW Epic  Post #: 77
4/10/2011 11:01:52   
priest_hidan
Member

Very good update Epic Duel Staffs the eggzookas are awesome. The rescaling has solved problems, but I think it created some too. I see a lot more one sided build now. The str. mercenaries are not effected because they have about 120-150 str and at that point the scaling doesn't matter because they still have about 30-38+32 damage which they can deal with their primary weapons without any cool down. Also all of these str. merc use a certain pattern which all of us are familiar with, first the maul which has no stat requirement then berzerker which also doesn't have any stat requirements. Now, since our defense and resistance are lowered drastically (i saw a 10 point decrease in mine), the damage dealt seems even more than before. To block that maul and berzerker i, a bounty hunter, have to use a level 8-10 reflex boost to make my dexterity about 103 and cross my fingers. Even though my defense is high now about 30-34, my resistance remains still as before and i have wasted one turn on reflex boost and have done no damage. Now if they have a weapon that which is enhanced by str and does energy damage... they manage to do about 32-44 even after all the drama. And 40% of the time they just go on with their maul then berzerker and it kills me.

So I would suggest a high stat (not str) requirement for maul and berzerker or decrease in connect % with the increase of str or both. So 100+ str = 30-40% of connect. May be it will solve the problem.

Also, the same str. abuse is also seen in some bounty the pattern is 125 health, about 100-120 str. with frost weps (frostbite, frost bolt...etc). They seem even more op than the str bounty. Furthermore, one another abuse i spotted is support mages, who heals decreases our resistance, then uses energy aux, and then heals around 50-64 health with only lvl 1 field medic. Since mages get mana back, the field medic seems to become too handy for them.

~ Dot

< Message edited by priest_hidan -- 4/10/2011 11:10:21 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 78
4/10/2011 17:53:14   
Firewallblast
Member

@MirageD
This update would totaly work with not counting the enhancements and stat mods. Actually now that i think about it would be betr to change the stat mod to 60 ( how many times have i typed the same phrase thes last 3 day) and diminishing affects cause if enhancements and stat mods dont count then str mercs would be unaffected

@priest_hidan
If u lower the connect level of berserker + maul, u would have to make massacre blockable and make both massacre and stun grenade lower connective, overload will be lowered too P.S. I am no a str merc
AQW Epic  Post #: 79
4/10/2011 21:44:27   
sk1tz
Member
 

 remove agility, make field medic 3 turn cooldown, make stat 70 then +2 stat points needs on top. problem solved. welcome back a new fresh beta/gamma.
Post #: 80
4/10/2011 22:26:23   
Donny The Ultimate
Member

Im srry to say but thiis balance update completly ruined the game to be honest im pretty sure im not the only one who thinks that
DF  Post #: 81
4/10/2011 23:39:06   
edwardvulture
Member

@ fire and mirageD: do you not remember the +40 or more stats brought by enhancements? I didn't like the idea od enhancements because they're probably the reason stat dimindhments were introduced.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 82
4/11/2011 0:14:54   
Nehal007
Member

Wel in my opinion i think lvl cap shud b directly raised to 50 making frostbane n azarelbane d best sword n requirements for them shud b incresed to lvl 46-50
N there's no need to release bettr weapons having betr stats than FB or AB(including dragon buster n celtic cleaver too) n in my opinions new weapons stats shud b lower than these weapons as i guess these r d best weapons of ED.

N agility shud b increased like this wud xplain it betr

  • STARTING FROM 95 (+2 TO RESIS N DEF)
  • THEN 110 (+1 TO RESIS N DEF)
  • THEN 125 (+0)

N so on....
Post #: 83
4/11/2011 0:16:50   
frogbones
Banned


 Yep. 5 Focus Gamma Bot builds are now officially the OP build de jour. I absolutely HATED them before this update; now, though, I really can't play this schizophrenic excuse for a game any longer. I will always be utterly amazed at how the devs completely ruined their product by continuing to release updates mired in greed and incompetence.

So long, suckers.

AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 84
4/11/2011 7:21:49   
Larcell
Member

^

*waves*


OT: Yeah, i think everyone is going to be shifting to +5 focus now. Lol, I have a secondary account that juts got to +4 focus with no bot...I would venture to say that because the Damage given in Focus is now removed, there's not much left for my 2nd account now. I'm not pumping anymore varium into that account.

_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 85
4/11/2011 10:25:27   
edwardvulture
Member

^ I'm using alternatives that existed in early beta
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 86
4/11/2011 10:55:39   
Cookielord12
Member

i beat my first level 33

< Message edited by Cookielord12 -- 4/11/2011 10:58:58 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 87
4/11/2011 11:34:08   
Deboise
Member

I have a couple concerns about this update... As a mage, and a concerned player of Ed with over 17,000 wins

First off is this comment made by Titan..

"We've made some calculation changes designed to encourage balance and eliminate boring one-way builds. " 0_o

to stop one way builds?? then why do the "all around" builds suffer the most from these updates...i have over 50 on every single one of my stats... str, dex, tec, and sup.... i have all but one skill being used and i obviously as an all around build have suffered the most..

some players i know that didnt care about the update where solid str. builds as the only stat they lost on was str... so the boring one way build got one skill effected and i got hit on all four?..

If it stays this way I will be changing to a boring one skill build


The second concern is that as a varium user and a normal purchaser of Varium items .....so...Every stat is over 50!!!.. I am wishing i hadn't spent all that money just to reach the penalized area of stats over 50..

Thanks,

Deboise
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 88
4/11/2011 15:18:59   
Wiseman
Member

^ Just wanted to note that diminishing returns doesn't penalize you if you go above 50 stats. It's not like agility, you don't lose anything for going too high, it just takes longer to gain something. You will need stats now more then ever however with the changes, damage will become more important then stats. As for your claim that balanced builds where hit harder, I disagree, I've used both balanced builds and one way stat builds, and I'm 100% sure that balanced builds work better now. See the reason is if you had all your points in 1 stat you would have a much bigger drop in that stat, and if you rely on that stat...then the drop would almost destroy your build. If you had a balanced build, all of your stats would suffer a small loss, and it wouldn't destroy your build, just make it slightly less effective, what really hurt balanced builds is the removal of focus, and that was intended.

Both balanced builds and extreme builds where hurt cause of the release...though extreme builds where hurt worse. However everyone suffers from the same stat loss, so it all evens out, really everything has changed, its like starting the game anew, everyone is struggling again because nobody knows what to do with their builds now. In time new builds will emerge and things will be back to normal, just with different stats levels.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 89
4/11/2011 15:24:48   
InceptionAE
Member

Support hasn't really been buffed. Only the damage for the auxiliary is. Anyways I have noticed, Bunny zooka has been increased +1 Damage.

< Message edited by DungeonHunter -- 4/11/2011 15:25:03 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 90
4/11/2011 22:59:28   
Firewallblast
Member

@edwardvulture

u must have not read all og my post because I start out agreeing and then i disagree
AQW Epic  Post #: 91
4/12/2011 5:04:00   
edwardvulture
Member

^
What are you talking about? I really have no idea
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 92
4/12/2011 13:30:50   
1jimmy30
Member
 

 Please remove the balance part of the update.

These are the main reasons....

1. Has out dated all build information on wiki and forum.
2.Forced all players to rebuild or find a new build.
3.I wrote down all my past builds in a big note book. Now I am seriously thinking of throwing it away.It is useless.
4.The update has took everyone away from balance. What I mean is now that focus only increases bot dmg is it really so useful?
5.I know I am not the only person irritated everyone I talked too agreed with me.

I know what I am talking about. Take a look at the rest of these replies, weigh up the good replies to the bad and I think we both know which kind of reply would win.

BANE 11
AQW Epic  Post #: 93
4/12/2011 17:26:22   
xxmirxx
Member
 
quote:

I agree with a lot of the points made by Wiseman and other posters. Reactions to balance updates are always strong, but balance is also far from set in stone, which is why we have these discussions. This upcoming release will see many modifications based on suggestions here and in other balance topics, such as a bot damage adjustment, increasing the diminishing returns tiers, and others.


they are going fix it.
AQ Epic  Post #: 94
4/12/2011 20:25:29   
kittycat
Member

I believe with MirageD. If the point of diminishing returns is to eliminate people from allocating too much on one attribute, then what is the point of this effect if Balance Builds are struck too. If you look at several of the character build pages in-game like me, None of them are above 50 in any statistic. There should be a change. The reason why it is so high like 84, 96, etc for some players is because the attributes are being boosted by their weapons.

The "natural" attributes are attributes you receive are permanent and can be only changed by retraining. The "temporary" boosts come from the weapons and armors and will change if you switch armors or weapons in any combination. If we experience diminishing returns when we reach over 50 even if the weapon statistics are raising it. Therefore, The balance update should've been looking at the "natural" stats, and it shouldn't include boosts from weapons and armors.

Even though it is a good update, there should be some minor adjustments.

< Message edited by kittycat -- 4/12/2011 23:25:05 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 95
4/12/2011 21:23:08   
ninjatom
Member

I think this update is an improvement, although there is room for change. The ability to get weapons higher than your level is a great idea. now leveling up is not so hard in the later levels. The new balance i also like, it also helps leveling up easier since if you are a lower level it is unlikely you would have many stats above 50. One thing i would like to point out is that balanced focus biulds are NOT being hit as hard with this update as one much as builds that focus in one stat. For example:

My level 32 charictor with enhancements and a base of 45 in each stat has
40 stats above 50 in Dex
15 stats above 50 in tech
13 stats above 50 in support.
this totals to 68 stats that are being affected by the diminishing

a common strength merc build will have around 90 stats above 50 in streangth alone, making them getting hit harder with this new balance.

So i believe this update did do what it was intended to do by discouraging players to invest all there stats in one alone.
Epic  Post #: 96
4/13/2011 0:39:53   
edwardvulture
Member

Actually I noticed more stat spammers because they only get penalized in 1-2 stats while a balanced player gets penalized in 3 or all 4. I'm with Wiseman on his suggestions and hope his ideas get made in-game.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 97
4/13/2011 1:42:30   
Shadronica
Member

@ Wiseman. Post 68.

You absolutely nailed the luck factor! Your so right about it.

I feel that the rest of your post is like a common sense guide to heal a good deal of our problems.

The game did need slowing a little and I feel this update has helped somewhat but there is still issues which I am hoping we can rationally work out.

Wiseman I think if some of your ideas are implemented I would suggest only doing the rage suggestion as a trial to see how it would go.

Nice post Wiseman.


@ Illuminator and Barney I think your Agility would also work nicely.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 98
4/13/2011 11:13:54   
kakilleon2
Member

I love this game and have played 4 over 1 year but..., i think its to much luck about the game. People with no dex could block 3 times a row, guys with no support deflect many times in one game. Reduce the luck. Please

:()
Epic  Post #: 99
4/13/2011 11:35:17   
ninjatom
Member

I would be fine with Wiseman's luck idea. The only thing is then it would be even more unlikely for a lower level to beat a higher level since the few times a lower level does beat a higher level the game was won with luck. To still include wisemans idea and help the players trying to level up perhaps the level range of people you can fight could be lowered, so you never have to worry about fighting someone five levels higher than you.
Epic  Post #: 100
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