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RE: The Gap

 
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8/6/2011 14:13:59   
ur going to fail
Member

LOL... every1 saying the gap is to big is weak. im non var, and if u get lucky by winning assault bot, u have a good chance of beating anymore (with a great build+enhancements). full enhancements with 50 wins a days+power hour should only take u a month, /end. the gap is fine where it is at. note that if a credit bot is released that match assault bot/stronger, the gap is to small.
Epic  Post #: 26
8/6/2011 14:23:26   
edwardvulture
Member

@ur going to fail: Arcade takes no skill just luck. Credit bot has to be implemented.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 27
8/6/2011 17:25:06   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


Srry Angels my 10 year old keyboard crapped out on me its ment to say "beat a founder for fun"
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 28
8/6/2011 18:24:24   
xxomegafaustxx
Member

@theSunguardian
First of, I would like to thank you reading my post as you seem to be the only one to respond to it or even consider; I also sincerely hope that forum users abroad take the time to reflect and gain invaluable insight from my perspective offered. I also hope that constructive input as well as inductive and deductive reasoning be exercised to further invoke a sense of maturity and rationale derived from one’s opinion regarding the idea of imbalance.

In response to your post, I firmly say yes; I totally agree that Varium users should have the “edge in battle since they paid”, but not necessarily a too large window of inequality undermining a nonvarium to compete in the game. Varium is provided as an incentive for individuals to win however, the “edge in battle” granted to such players should not necessarily dictate or manifest itself as victory against nonvarium players but rather, should encourage both sides to evolve and adapt over time. And what does this mean? It means that nonvariums and variums may peacefully coexist and that healthy competition between the two can be invoked to fix such imbalance. Thus from such reasoning, one can extort the assumption that varium should not compromise one’s ability to compete in the game nor should it correlate to one’s ability to win. And to add on to your point, yes, varium should be moreso focused on new features and whatnot, not creating such a jarring GAP between the deprived and the wealthy. The GAP is getting enlarged over time with a large market of flashy promos that won’t sustain or even last long to the varium user. And as stated earlier in my post, Nonvarium users are a viable commodity to the ED community as they provide lesser competition and over time, perhaps fair competition to the higher tier varium users.

Now, back to my rationale:

Browsing through the posts, I see that many have argued about the idea of “purchase”, spending $100.00 or even more on the game which is by far a strong solid rebuttal thoroughly supported by varium users. Why then should nonvariums be able to compete against those who spend an exorbitant fortune at the expense to win a mere PVP flash game? Shouldn’t those who support the game as quantified by the amount of purchase be entitled a far greater advantage remotely over those who play for free? To answer such a question, consider this string of reasoning.

Since the very beginning of ED’s history during the “larvae” phases of testing, varium users have always been granted an edge of victory. Whether such an “edge in battle” involved higher resis/def, better weaponry, or privileges to certain fundamentals within the game, varium users had the cutting edge, better equipment, and better-everything that compromised as an early evolving advantage over free users. Fast forward and much of what I said holds true, except the use of varium is entirely different. In the early Alpha and beta stages, varium was introduced as an incentive and monetary appeal to win over nonvarium players. This was because during Alpha and midway Beta, the gap between nonvariums and variums was small and allowed nonvariums to healthily compete with upper tier players. Now, varium is used on a ridiculous level and the prices of varium only continue to soar. Armours last year are no longer “top notch” to current updated weaponry. Funny thing is, once you spend varium, you’ll spend more varium over the life expectancy of your character, not knowing and almost ignorantly believing that the varium that you once purchased a week or two weeks ago literally goes down the drain. And why might this be the case? To elaborate and illustrate such thoughts, here’s a small diagram to simplify and classify the actors of ED’s history for such understanding:

NonVarium Tier (ranks 1 and 2)

1. Premature Nonvarium user (No enhancement in nonvarium weaponry whatsoever and lack poor knowledge in rudimentary and solid builds, can’t compete ED due to premature experience in the game as they are usually newcomers and suffer a tremendous amount of losses to ranks 2-6). They are relatively new to the ED atmosphere, hoping to enjoy to PVP experience however, are crushed easily by ranks above them. Usually equipped with “noob” and starter weapons, they stand no chance with ranks above theirs. They are the real victims to ED’s imbalance GAP and are devoid of competing.

2. Evolved Nonvarium user (Semi or full enhancements in nonvarium weaponry and have strong rudimentary knowledge of builds, can compete but with semi-luck or unluck due to having lesser stats in comparison to ranks 3-6, a very small elite minority of this rank have contested faithfully with much or little success and the majority have diverted to NPC’ing). They are constantly in struggle with ranks 3-6 and in the majority of situations and although evolved from rank 1, are still not strong enough to compete with 3-6. A very few cream of the crop users have solidified their ranking in the ED community but the majority or left to bite the soil. They are also victims to the varium created GAP in ED’s history.
Varium Tier (Ranks 3-6)

Varium Tier (ranks 3-6)

3. Premature Varium user (No enhancements or semi-enhancement in varium weaponry and lack poor knowledge in rudimentary or solid builds, can compete in ED but has use varium for the very first time to try to remedy their losing situation prior when they were rank 1s, are constantly pressured to purchase varium to compete with ranks 4-6 and in some cases rank 2). They are the victims in the angst of imbalance created by the varium Gap and are pressured to purchase more varium to support their character’s ability to compete in the PVP atmosphere.

4. Traditional Varium user (Semi or full enhancements in nonvarium and varium weaponry and have a strong rudimentary knowledge on good builds, can compete in ED and has used varium very little than ranks 5 and 6 and possible 3, usually maintaining old weaponry in the form of past promo’s for as long as they can and enhancing them, evolved from ranks 3,2 and possibly 1 through experience and have adept knowledge and background to PVPing). With lesser and older “antique” varium and nonvarium equipment, they can compete successfully but not against ranks above 4. They are the lost forgotten remnants before ED’s GAP and are similar victims to it if they continue to stay at their ranking.

5. Evolved Varium user (Semi or full enhancements in varium in weaponry and have strong rudimentary knowledge on O’PED builds, can compete with almost any rank under 5 and has used varium extensively over the period of their character’s life, finds ranks below pose as a small miniscule challenge and are power-hungered to obtain the best weaponry existent in the game. Usually spending more than $100.00, their thirst for greater weaponry is always in conflict with balance issues). They are the winners of ED’s GAP and support a larger GAP to increase and maximize their playing potential.

6. Premium Varium user (Full enhancements in exclusive varium weaponry, spent a fortune on the best possible equipment and are in the highest state of luxury and advantage known to the game, similar to rank 5, spent an incredulous seeming fortune on varium as the ranks below them pose as NO CHALLENGE whatsoever, the ability from them to compete is SO ENLARGED that only rank 5s and 4s may healthily compete with them). Constantly replenishes varium daily, weekly and monthly and are avid supporters of the GAP. They are the ultimate winners and may not condone or support nonvarium advancement in the game.

So with such background knowledge, I would like to draw some interesting statistics extorted from such understanding. In the context of ED’s history, let’s go back in time to see ED’s timeline. Please avert your attention below.

Alpha--------------------Beta-----------------Gamma-----------------Delta


In Alpha, there existed only two ranks. Ranks 1 and 3. Since it was in the most earliest of the testing phases, unique and diverse builds emerged out of spontaneity because the atmosphere allowed for it. The gap was not as large and was very small and players felt that simple and creative builds could be successful. Even against varium users who had a slight edge in battle, with no enhancements in weaponry, Ranks 1 and 3 continued to evolve peacefully together where the time for creativity was a driving appeal for the game. This stage was the most happiest of Epic Dueling and perhaps opened and geared toward many players.

In Beta, with the introduction of factions, faction wars, flag capture and bikes, the game became extremely appealing and a surge of players soon pulled into the frenzy of social networking with a twist of PvP battling. Bots were going to be enabled for the very first time and arcade battles were ideal additions to the PvP atmosphere. Just when things were going smoothly, enhancements kicked in and were implemented resulting a the GAP to increase from nonvarium players and varium players. No longer were ranks 1 and 3 successful. Players were forced to evolve into ranks 2 and 4 and so alienated the creative ranks 1 and 3 prior before the implementation. Still, there were creative builds such as Heal Looping and high support builds, smoke +mass, but all soon fell victim to limitors such as agility. Thus, enhancements tried to fix this problem which resulted into a far greater divide of the nonvarium and varium tier. With a greater divide in players, Nonvariums were forced to adopt less-unique and impressive builds as well as Variums often leading to quick games or unsatisfying dueling. Users became more power hungry for varium and soon distorted the usage of varium. This stage was the most controversial of stages.

Moving onwards to Gamma, the features of ED slowly diminished and less of the promised updates soon took weeks over a long period of time and disappointment. The reasons of this was can be extrapolated by large imbalance distortions created by enhancements and the GAP between the nonvarium and varium tier. More seasonal promo weaponry like the gamma bot and bike and less modes were introduced in the life span of this stage to remedy varium hunger to channel interest for purchase. With more and more varium equipment, the GAP became larger and larger and even soon, ranks 1 and 3 were almost out of the picture. With more weaponry and enhancement slots, ranks 5 and 6 evolved and left ranks 2 and 4 their ability to compete with higher stat-users. This stage met very little advancements other than fuel varium hunger.

And finally Delta, the anticlimactic struggle for all ranks below 5. Now since ranks 1,2,3, and 4 are out of the picture, the use of varium has been greatly inflated. Why are the prices so high now? It is because there are less nonvarium users who play the game which invalidates the purpose of varium being used in the first place – to achieve an edge against nonvariums. But since the GAP is so large, nonvariums can’t compete making the purpose of varium obsolete. And such a purpose is using varium against varium players -purchasing a ridiculous $100 just to compete with those of the higher tier. Was ever purchasing varium a costly feature in Alpha?

It has also occurred to me over the last year, after Alpha and Beta, the creation of upper tier ranks has only evolved themselves by separating the healthy competition between nonvarium and varium players into varium and varium players. And it is because of this separation which in due time, has made varium more expensive. WHY? Because varium is an entity dependant on the amount of nonvarium users. It’s value is directly proportional to how many nonvarium users play the game because it’s value can only be qualified by having a monetary set value for having an edge in battle. And why is this?! Because the orgins of varium were solely that of granting players an advantage over nonvarium players back in Alpha and Beta BEFORE the Gap between them in terms of stats became so enlarged. And with the GAP enlarged, more nonvariums are startled and discouraged to continue playing seeing they don’t have a fair way to compete. And EVEN IF they do adopt varium, they are entering the risk in spending more than $100 just to compete in a firkin FLASH GAME! With less nonvariums because of the Gap, less players and new ones alike are discouraged, forcing ED to fix balance issues and make varium more pricey dicey.

AND TO ANSWER THE SAME QUESTION ABOUT THE MONEY SPENT ON THIS GAME, and WHY NONVARIUMS SHOULD BE ABLE TO COMPETE FAIRLY WITH VARIUM USERS . . . IT IS BECAUSE (Excuse my Caps, this is very important)

The GAP has created varium Turmoil! This also explains the reason why varium is in poverty all the time, why players a constantly spending more and more varium when in due time, it depletes in a matter of seconds. This is because the divide between nonvarium and varium players has been so grossly enlarged that it has excluded and moreso “eradicated” the nonvarium tier’s opportunity to successfully compete against an unsettling dynamic un-equilibrium with the higher tier varium users. And with more and more varium needed to supply the higher ranks, the game would soon become a PAY-to-PLAY daily game. So with varium users fondled with the belief that nonvariums should ever come close to competing with them I ask you, please think again. What has the GAP produced? It may have benefited you but in the long run, but has denatured the PVP atmosphere of ED’s success as an enjoyable and playable game. Varium users are moreso FORCED to pay to compete with other Varium users. It should be Variums and Nonvariums competing!

And if you still disagree with this idea, if you remove nonvariums (ranks 1 and 2) out of the picture for viable competition, you get varium users brawling to obtain a cutting edge in the game. But wait, there’s more! Now since you exterminated the nonvarium tier, the game is moreso orientated for varium players. And since each and every varium players of rank 3-6 have the desire and pulse to win, they would spend even more varium and more money to preside victory amongst varium players, even spending more than $100.00 worth of incredulous spending to fuel their ambitions to stay top notch. But from what we know, varium never has a fixed price and continues to cost more and more. The Gap is just a losing situation for both varium and nonvarium users if it continues to consume this community.

Whilst, increase or maintaining the GAP between nonvarium and varium players also does a disservice to players who pay a seeming fortune. And I ask varium players this; aren’t you tired on spending more than $100.00 on a mere-children’s flash game? And if you are already, I would imagine such individuals spending more than $500.00 just to compete with varium players. If not, be prepared to send in your school tuition and working salary to ED lol. Varium is just another meager delusion that won’t sustain for long. This is why varium users must constantly purchase more varium to compete with other varium users who hone the same interests of winning. The price of varium has been deeply inflated and none of us are thoroughly addressing it!

@ur going to fail
I totally agree with you. I am also a nonvarium user with a reasonable amount of enhancements and I have fared with both nonvarium and varium users quite nicely despite of not having a bot. I have invested a painstaking fortune to maintain a build that is able to compete with each tier but have moreso, lost to the the upper elite varium class of users. If you are satisfied with the GAP as of now, please reconsider the victims of this ordeal (those who do not have or lack the capacity to compete). And yes, I’m talking about ranks 1 and 2s. To say they are weak, yes, they are to a certain extent but have they really benefited out of this experience? I’ll let you think on that.

However, I disagree that ED should only be played by with the sheer attitude and belief to be pressured to win but one should enjoy the social dynamic atmosphere that is of PvP battling. Players should not be FORCED or PRESSURED to pay to win but rather, it should be a VOLUNTARY decision to obtain a small upper edge. I stand by the victims and WEAK players of ED and not just the strong. For a community, strength comes in numbers, not in one.

And if you to are to “LOL” are say others or “weak” because of this post or even directed to me, please also consider this; the GAP between nonvarium and varium users will only, as I foresee, continue to increase in due time. Look at the win/lose ratios of a varium user to that of a nonvarium user. You can certainly tell who is doing better based on their rank. And even suggesting a larger Gap will only create problems as stated earlier in this post. For a game like this to continue, we must remedy the divide that is of the struggling nonvarium class and luxurious royalty of the varium elite. A larger and greater gap? Be my guest. I'm content with not spending crazy amounts of dollars on a mere child's flash game.

So of course, I feel that because I’m a nonvarium player, many would see this post as an obvious glaring predisposition towards varium users. However, I feel that much of what I said is also for the sake of VARIUM PLAYERS TOO! No one should spend more than $100.00 just to play a flash game with many bugs and lags! By closing the Gap, nonvariums may increase in number, lessening the cost of Varium and providing a rich plethora of builds like what was experienced in the early phases of Alpha and BETA! We’re reversing the evolution of this game to be successful. Please RECONSIDER!!



I favour rationale and reason~
"Unknown" Lvl 33 Nonvarium Mage

And if my words do not change you, I hope ED’s situation does.

"It may take many people to screw in a lightbulb but one enlightened individual to fasten it"


< Message edited by xxomegafaustxx -- 8/6/2011 19:45:21 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 29
8/6/2011 19:44:13   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

My opinions have changed about this recently. Its to large. What people dont see is if Non-Varuims always lose to Varuim players and now the varuim player amount is increasing that means they will eitheir.
1. Quit the game because of total unfairness and barely even a chance to beat varuim players.
2. Become a Varuim player.
So this means if all the Non-Varuims are sick of the imbalance and quit and or become a Varuim players their will be no Non-Varuim players meaning everyone will be Varuim and no one will have a advantage over the other meaning no one would buy varium. Meaning Epic Duel would then die. Meaning this gap must be fixed.
AQW Epic  Post #: 30
8/6/2011 19:47:49   
edwardvulture
Member

Can I see your char page faust? Yeah now you gotta make sure the devs read some of that.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 31
8/6/2011 19:52:08   
EDTrickster
Banned


@xxomegafaustxx

Can you not make your posts so long I can't bothered reading a essay =/. I also have to agree varium players do deserve to have an edge in battle seeing as how they payed for the game but that doesn't necessarily mean they have to own every non varium player out there.

< Message edited by EDTrickster -- 8/6/2011 19:57:14 >
Post #: 32
8/6/2011 19:56:36   
xxomegafaustxx
Member

@IsiahtheMage

Exactly. Enlightenment comes in the form of change. We talk about how players must adapt and evolve to be successful in the game however, tentatively, we should examine ED's ability as a game to adapt and evolve to the player PvP changing dynamic interface. I 100% agreed to what you have stated earlier in your post but it extends much further. Chronologically, a trend such as this may occur over time:

As a nonvarium user, one would take the option of-
1. Quiting the game as the unfairness to compete has overtly exceeded the individual's capacity to compete with higher tier members.
2. Become a Varium player, unprepared for a year of voluntary commitment to purchase more and more varium to compete with varium users.
3. As the populace of nonvarium users diminishes, the price of varium skyrockets targeting Varium users to exhume more Varium
4. Precarious competition evolves between higher varium elites as more and more are forced to purchase more varium forcing them to pay unbelievable sums of money
5. GAP becomes ostensibly larger discouraging both traditional varium and nonvariums abroad. Updates focus more on resolving the reoccuring issue of imbalance due to the GAP while having less time to modify and introduce new features.
6. Lesser players playing the game.

And the game of Epic Dueling can not proceed further.

@edwardvulture

Yes, in due time but I would like to remain anonymous up to this point. I will reveal myself once enlightenment ( in the form of this GAP understanding) has reached varium and nonvarium users but for these reasons of being anonymous, I ask to not create a bias in-game. I certainly agree with you that the devs should read this as ED is falling apart. What most people don't realize is that ED is in a rapid falling turmoil. Problems such as these must be fixed and attended to, not ignored. Problems such as these are the very reasons why many players foster complaints openly about the game(about why varium is so expensive, why no updates are on balance instead of modes, why there is imbalance in certain builds, and why there are less people playing it due to a too unfair steep advantage).

@EDTrickster

I'll try my best to condense my posts but by far, there are many things that must be articulated clearly and that requires me to write and elaborate with thought and with reasoning-without word limits or restrictions lol. If they is something you do not understand, I'll try to clarify it in my future posts but it would be nice to spread this message across the forum, and not just store it all up in one post. And yes, I certainly agree with you. As a nonvarium user, variums shouldn't win all the matches played with varium but a majority. Varium should only grant a slight edge and not some 100% win-advantage. By closing the GAP, we can see a balance and creation of new builds, more players eager to experiment and try new things, and best of all-more players coming to ED. Why, because the experience of dueling should be fun, not forced.


Isn't that something that we all want?

< Message edited by xxomegafaustxx -- 8/6/2011 20:32:50 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 33
8/6/2011 20:18:33   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


@Mega i thought Varium came along late Alpha to Early Beta seeing as Elites only started paying mid to Late Alpha
other that that i completely agree with your post
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 34
8/6/2011 20:23:54   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

@omega Your completely right. If all Non-Varuims eitheir quit or become Varuims then their will be a problem like I said in my last post. The Non-Varuims that become Varuims will then see that they are all on the same playing field. So they will start all buying tons of Varuim so they can get the edge on each other and once they relize this failing partern they will quit to relize they have been wasteing thier money as seeing their is no adv over the other player making no one buy Varuim anymore meaning ED would die.
AQW Epic  Post #: 35
8/6/2011 20:26:06   
xxomegafaustxx
Member

@One Winged Angel1357

I may be wrong about the introduction of Varium in Alpha and I thank you for your clarification. I was not an Alpha user but I entered this game during the Beta phase platform of ED's development. So thank you again for your input.

Another point to speculate (if I haven't already speculated) is that the cost of varium has increased so much and has been embedded in too many features. It has impeded the nourishing of ED's community and has created hunger-savaged users of Varium who are unaware that Varium has used up a fortune of their money. And this increase of Varium pricing is correlated to less and less nonvarium players participating. Was Varium ever expensive during early Alpha and Beta phases? I think not.

@IsiahtheMage

Yes, and you are certainly right. Varium was not suppose to cripple the ED community but with the plethora of dynamic avenues for builds offered from enhancements, bots and so forth, it has continued to enlarge this GAP. Varium, as I perceive it are like steriods. Though in appearance they enhance physically one's body, it has detrimental effects to the person in the long run. One must constantly replenish again and again to achieve the same "high" and the cycle never stops but continues and reverts to poor behaviour- an over-compulsive disorder to purchase more and more varium. Victims of varium can't discern the difference and continue to repeat it. I'm glad that you have shed light on this issue.

< Message edited by xxomegafaustxx -- 8/6/2011 20:32:22 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 36
8/6/2011 20:33:18   
redxtra
Member

i truly think the gap is too big especially when it comes to armors and weapons.
like for starters. when u hit the lvl 30 mark theres barely any non var weapons
in which non-var vs var...non-var gets demolished because of lack of higher lvl weapons and stat points.
and since it cost so much for credit enhancements, it would take a non-var to "no-life" the game in order to get the credits to fully enhance everything.
in my eyes it takes more skill to be a non-var then a var user so therefore the gap is too big
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 37
8/6/2011 20:38:33   
ur going to fail
Member

@ed and and every1 else complaining about not winning a bot.

it should take no more 1k-2k tokens to get a bot. it personally took me 1.7k tokens to do it. 1700/5=340. (5 battle tokens for 1 battle). lets say u have 70% win rate. 340 x 0.7 = 238. u should get the assault bot by that time. for me i had also won a hover bike (sells for 2k, not bad) and 1 grand prize of 10k credits. note that u also get tokens from ur wins. i didn't count these extra tokens. asssault bot is easy to get. if u ever played AQW, a lot of people do nulgath/dage the evil quests, switch are completely based on luck nothing else.
Epic  Post #: 38
8/6/2011 20:50:28   
redxtra
Member

@fail
that is true (nulgath and drugden quest farming quite fun)
i mean im a varium user myself just tryin 2 help the cause tho.
like it took me 50 wins in arcade to get my bot and then i also hit the 10k creds twice like a month and a half later
but thats besides the point
yes its true u can hit them jackpots in arcade but whats the point if ur an non-var and all ur facing are vars with an overused build that u kno ur gonna lose to
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 39
8/6/2011 21:00:35   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


i would like to interject yet another fact Varium price is not on a rise in fact it was decreased then set at teh solid rate of 995 Varium proof of this can be seen on old Varium gear mostly centered in the Mine tower area

anyway i feel all this Gap discussion might be put on its head come the balance update
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 40
8/6/2011 21:07:21   
rej
Member

at first when i saw this topic, i was afraid it was about a certain clothing buisness... hmm

the gap is just about right. if a non var support abuser manages to crit twice or more at the right times, he actualy has a chance of beating me.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 41
8/6/2011 21:47:43   
edwardvulture
Member

@ur going to fail: The point of it is that winning an arcade bot is completely luck-based. I have dumped like 3,000 in the arcade and my win ratio is way above average for a f2p mage.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 42
8/6/2011 22:18:19   
Ashari
Inconceivable!


I do agree with the majority of you that the gap between non-Varium and Varium players in combat has gotten too large to allow healthy competition between the two groups of players.

There will always be a gap, but it needs to be much more controlled than it currently is. A combination of few non-Varium equipment options, broken (from a balance perspective) combat mechanics and lack of standards have all contributed to the problem. While enhancements did cause the growth of the stat gap between non-Varium and Varium players, they are not the root of the problem. If you've seen some veteran non-Varium players, you'll know that they can hold their own pretty well once they have a full set of enhanced equipment.

The first problem is the difficulty in getting to that veteran non-Varium level. New players rarely manage their credits wisely and by the time they reach the 30s, they are usually very broke. Fully equipping a non-Varium character with the best equipment and buying max credit Enhancements takes a very long time. This uphill climb is only made longer by the losses they face against Varium players who can immediately get the best equipment. This just leads to many players getting frustrated and quitting before they can gear up to become competitive.

Dealing with this means more creative ways for players to get credits or earn equipment (besides buying it). The Arcade is not much help, but Power Hour was a good start. It's not enough however. Repeatable or Daily missions with credit rewards could be another good way to fill the credit sinkhole and it would provide some longevity to the content provided by missions. There have been a ton of great suggestions that could help with this as well; hopefully some of them will make it into the game.

The second problem has been combat mechanics that only amplified the gap. Every % based skill was guilty of this and a reason why Strength builds were so effective. Skills that weren't directly dependent on equipment were too weak to use at max level. The upcoming balance update should help non-Varium in particular as they'll be able to use skills much more effiently to overcome their lower stats. The robot cooldown nerf will help non-Variums too just because of the lack of options for non-Varium robots, but it's just a temporary bandaid. The robot system in general is broken, but I'll leave that to another discussion.

The bigger problem lies in standards and EpicDuel's lack of them. We know that non-Varium items are usually weaker than Varium items and that Seasonal-Rares and Limited-Rares are usually stronger than non-rares, but by how much? Up until now, equipment statting has been more or less eyeballed. Without a standard to apply to all items, it won't be possible to keep the gap between non-Varium and Varium players constant and reasonable.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 43
8/7/2011 1:04:31   
xxomegafaustxx
Member

@ur going to fail

I think you're missing the entire point of this discussion. Of course, one's aptitude to compete in ED reflects merely on how one utilizes the resources around him/her effectively. Take it for example, purchasing the best equipment in the game or adopting strategies to win using a bot or farming during power hours. That, I totally agree with you but it digresses and totally angles away from this forum. What you're arguing is that of "player potential". We are not here to discuss how easy it is to get a "bot" or how many days one should farm, where one should farm or one's win/lose ratio against varium players. We're here to discuss the jarring GAP created by varium which augments both the nonvarium and varium populaces.

Furthermore, no where in my post or other posts do I see people "complaining about the bot" but about the gap but merely stating the facts. Facts that ultimately stand true to this ordeal. Does it not surprise you that the average nonvarium player is 30 stat points or more away from a varium user? Does it not also surprise you that there are gradually less and less nonvarium users? And if I would address your post much succinctly, I would imagine that you're not taking this issue maturely. Understand that there is no "short-cut" to anything. A battle is never won overnight rather, it is won by days, perhaps months or even years! If everyone took what you said into consideration, there would be still imbalance to the nonvarium folk because nothing would change. Because it is the short-cut method attempting to fix large problem. Using tape on a water tap just to stop the water leaking is an temporary reluctant alternative. If ED was having it's own water leakage, we should approach long term angles to fix the problem like welding or using different materials besides tape. Anyways, the point I'm trying to make here is that matters like this have no clear-cut short easy solution.

And let me also point out, even if your argument stood to be valid, how is that going to help fix the GAP? Is saying to every single nonvarium user out there "Hey, get a bot and do this and that", going to help the nonvarium community? And even if it was the case, how is it beneficial to the ED community as a whole? Before you wake up and smell the roses, please read my lasts post as I have carefully commented on the imbalance created by the GAP.

@One Winged Angel1357

Yes, you may be right on the point but I'm merely inflecting on a totally different level. Arguable, yes varium prices have gone down but in terms of monetary and collective value, has been going up. And why is this the case? Varium has not gone down in price just because with so many platforms essential to an individual's build and features only accessible to the higher tier players, the culminated value of varium based on this supposition is moreso tripled in comparison to the past phases of ED. To challenge your statement, I ask you this: Has the average varium player in Beta spent more or less than the average varium player in Delta or Gamma?

Because varium users must chiefly update their gear with varium enhancements, they must pay more and more varium to stay top notch. Yes, Varium may have dropped down but overall, the combined effects on enhancements, promos, bots, bikes, modes, etc has made varium more expensive. Think about it: After one purchases varium equipment, they must enhance it using varium and must get varium bots to satisfy a specific build and to top that, may want to look cool and trendy with neat haircuts or bikes. Because each feature is essentially chained-together, its hard to find satisfaction in just one feature. That forces varium users to by this whole package which is way more costly than it was prior.

Additionally, the esclating price of varium has been deeply correlated to the miniscule amount of nonvarium players. As I stated earlier in my post, ED community is like an ecology. Undermine the weak and you also undermine the strong as they both are bound contractually.


@rej

I'm sorry, but I have to object to your statement. It is crystal clear in my eyes and mind that the nonvarium race is being trampled, eradicated and slowly erased from ED. Even if you see a nonvarium support abuser out there, how often do you seen varium players doing the same at a larger scale? And isn't losing suppose to be the very nature of the PvP game? You can't win all your battles, you must lose some. The GAP has made it less and less fair for nonvariums to compete with variums. However, many don't understand that they are both bound contractually; you need both nonvarium and varium players to sustain the ED community and not just varium players.

Consider this analogy: Think of it as an worm and a bird. Birds eat the worm and worm uses plants for nutrients. Simple as that. For the bird to nourish, the worm must nourish as well. Without the worm, the bird would starve to death. The bird like the varium user needs the worm, the nonvarium user, to provide it energy for it's daily functions. Ecologically, the purpose of such is to help fulfill eachother's goals. But the relationship between the teo doesn't necessarily mean that they compete against each other but with resources in the environment. And it's not like the worm would be eaten and eaten again by the bird. The fact of nature is both have the opportunity to evolve and grow and peacefully coincide. The worm is to sustain the bird and the bird is there to control the worm's ecological populace. Varium on the other hand can be percieved as am alternative source of energy provided by the environment. Each party can access the energy but are not obliged or forced too. The worm could use the energy to become a stronger as they themselves could be foes instead of victims to birds. Birds can also use the energy to become better predators and hunters and so forth. The ideal conditions for the environment is to have them equal in number or having more prey than predator organisms. In that way, the ecology can sustain itself.

But what we're seeing now is a scarcity of nonvarium players and abundance of varium players. With too many birds to feed, competition among birds would only be more stressed. Worms must adapt or be killed of quickly and can no longer ecologically compete with birds as they used to. If they resort to varium, they too would be intermingled in the conflict amongst the other birds of the roast who seem to be more and more stressed. And as the worms are slowly killed off, birds are more hungrier then ever. Resorting to an alternative source of energy, "varium", birds fuel their temporary craving. When all the energy is depleted, birds readily use such energy again and again. But why can't the birds continue to do so if it provides them necessary energy to do so? That is because energy yielded by varium is not the same as energy yielded by the worm which is much nutritious and long-term in value. The energy yielded by varium is much shorted than what could be obtained from an organism. The worm is an interdependent entity with the bird as the bird is directly bound contractually to it. I ask you this very simple question, how then can the ecology sustain itself over time? With more birds, eventually, competition in the future will be exclusively birds on birds leaving the most valued entity, the worms behind.

And if you argue and refute my perspective with the understanding that if you don't "Evolve you Die" idea or "Natutural Selection" in this context of an ecology, it is totally different. Of course, Natural Selection favours the birds, giving them an advantage over the worms but the worms should not be devoid their chance to compete. It is through natural selection, organisms evolve and adapt. But not all organisms adapt so quickly or easily~Organisms have different ways to evolve and adapt given this scenario. You can't just put a polar bear in the middle of a desert and say "EVOLVE!", find food and survive because it isn't going to happen. Similarly, would it surprise you that it took more than a million years for Humans and homeosapiens to evolve and adapt to their surroundings? So back to the topic at hand, saying to a worm "Go fight with the bird" or continuing to weaken the worm's potential to the point where it can not sustain itself is hurting to the ecology of natural competition. This is because ecologically, the worm can't compete with the bird on a fair level. Competing on a fair level means something the bird and the worm can do which is competing for resources within the ecology not competing face-to-face. And of course, the worm will meet the varium bird one day when its minding it's own business. But that happens naturally and is not forced by nature. The worm does not suddently evolve and grow wings and beats the bird, it contests with it's own supply of resources. That's where the idea of varium should come into play. It should be the competition between worms and birds not birds and birds.

Here's the situation. You got a flock of maybe 10 birds and one worm. Does the worm stand a chance? Can the worm fairly compete with the resources in the environment against the bird or birds? And if this is just the case, how can birds survive if the worm, the organism responsible for it's daily nourishment and nutrition, can't properly sustain itself as well?

Saying that the GAP is a glaring and invalid statement. If you haven't read my posts, please do so. And if my words can not change you, I pray you see the light that is the nonvarium race. The desperate and feeble worm among the flock of birds.

@Ashari

Yes, you are entirely true. As for certain, there will be always a GAP and lessening the GAP will create healthy competition between the two groups of players. I won't bother to elaborate on what you said because most of it is already reinstated in my post. I also agree that a sort of standard should apply.

For those who haven't read my posts, please read them and RECONSIDER.

I favour rationale and reasoning~
"Unknown" lvl 33 nonvarium Mage




< Message edited by xxomegafaustxx -- 8/7/2011 5:15:39 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 44
8/7/2011 1:08:47   
goldslayer1
Member

the GAP IMO should be separated by a 20 stat difference
including enhancements.

quote:

I favour rationale and reasoning~
"Unknown" lvl 33 nonvarium Mage

hmmm gives me a small hunch

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 8/7/2011 1:09:01 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 45
8/7/2011 1:25:18   
xxomegafaustxx
Member

@goldslayer1

I would actually aim for a GAP to be separated by 20 stats and no less. Perhaps ideally, I envision a 16 stat difference as in terms of levels, conveys a 4-level difference. I would argue that a 4-level difference compromises as a huge advantage in a battle and such an advantage can be used to easily win a battle.

But to do this, we must not cling strongly to varium as varium is an inhibitor to the natural ecology for healthy competition. Varium, should be an alternative to both members of the ecology, like the worm and the bird, who have the ability to accept or deny it's usefulness/resourcefulness. Unlike the current situation, Varium is forced and pressured by both parties and distances them creating a detrimental effect on the ecology. Aside from such jabber, I'm glad that share similar feelings about this issue.

< Message edited by xxomegafaustxx -- 8/7/2011 1:44:59 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 46
8/7/2011 1:32:00   
goldslayer1
Member

@omega
well one way of closing the gap is to make non var weapons have 6 enhancements maxx while the non var weapons stay strictly 4-5 stats behind the varium ones. thise goes for all types of weps.
the best primary now has 36 total stats when enhanced.
the best non var primary should be 31-32 total stats

this way the var and non me items will start with the same base stats but the difference will be made on enhancements.
and non vars wouldn't have to suffer much on the enhancements part because 50k credits (also the cost for 6 total enhancements on a single wep) is pretty easy to make in a couple of days.
the max amount of credit required to be full gear with enhancements would be 200k
AQW Epic  Post #: 47
8/7/2011 1:56:31   
xxomegafaustxx
Member

@goldslayer1

You have probably said this in the most easiest straightforward linear way possible. And ironically, it seems to be the most easiest way of thinking tackling such a large problem. Yes, well, one way is to perhaps lower or limit the amount of stats provided by varium weaponry. As for the specifics, that I am not much worried about. It is the approval of elitist variums who still cling onto the GAP and not fully know or understand their undoing; not foreseeing ED's destruction and precarious future ahead of them. I will attempt many times to address to Varium players the culpability of their actions and their impact on the ED community; how alienating the nonvarium race has reached into climatic varium poverty, balance issues, and much more.

I still believe that eventually, variums will eventually have a change of heart and smell the roses. Wake up and see the madness that is of Epic Duel.

I favour rationale and reasoning~
"Unknown" lvl 33 nonvarium Mage


For those who haven't read my posts, please read them and RECONSIDER. The future of ED is one post away.

< Message edited by xxomegafaustxx -- 8/7/2011 1:57:52 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 48
8/7/2011 2:02:15   
goldslayer1
Member

@omega
a rationable varium player would realize its too big.
im sure better systems can be found for controlling the gap.

i myself thought of some systems.
the real question is, will the devs listen and take it into consideration?
AQW Epic  Post #: 49
8/7/2011 2:04:17   
nico0las
Member

@xxomegafaustxx your text fried my brain. Having said this, It is surprisingly accurate, and it was a pleasure to read

The gap is perfect. There are some VERY good non variums out there, and they can compete. But i like it.


< Message edited by nico0las -- 8/7/2011 2:08:06 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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