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RE: =DF= Guardian Discussion Thread

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5/6/2015 11:00:35   
Mystical Warrior
Helpful!


 @Ash That's cool, no need to rush since this is what the player testing phase is for, still thanks for taking the time to actually consider some of our requests, and also thanks again for the non-lag animation of Guardian Heroes, it actually feels like we are summoning ghosts now.

Edit: Just had another thought, lol, it would also be really cool looking if you will just add the jumping shield crash animation right after the current shield push animation, so that we have more shield animations on the class lol (Hope this comes true if Ash has the time to do it.)

< Message edited by Mystical Warrior -- 5/6/2015 11:04:23 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 401
5/6/2015 11:00:51   
LouisCyphere
Member

quote:

Because I rolled a die and parry was the one that came up.

I need that die

Yeah. The summoning ghosts thing was really obvious
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 402
5/6/2015 11:41:42   
Mystical Warrior
Helpful!


 Looks like the animation for the class' Multi is shortened to just one slash and the other monsters gets damaged, much like Artix's Multi skill, I kinda liked the old one, especially when multiple enemies flanked you from both sides since that will make more sense than suddenly being damaged when they are behind our character.

Still hoping for the jumping shield crash to be added in the end of Guardian Rage after the shield push animation to make it cooler

< Message edited by Mystical Warrior -- 5/6/2015 11:42:52 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 403
5/6/2015 11:53:56   
DD.CLYDESTER
Member

Guys, is it just me or the shield skill animation is bugged?
It ain't occuring like the first animation, was it changed?

< Message edited by DD.CLYDESTER -- 5/6/2015 11:54:31 >
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 404
5/6/2015 12:00:14   
Ash
Member


 The one where you slam your shield into the ground and get defense? That wasn't changed or even touched since I first coded it.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 405
5/6/2015 12:04:38   
DD.CLYDESTER
Member

quote:

The one where you slam your shield into the ground and get defense? That wasn't changed or even touched since I first coded it.


Oooh, nevemind, seems like I just had to restart to browser :)

< Message edited by DD.CLYDESTER -- 5/6/2015 12:09:34 >
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 406
5/6/2015 14:50:43   
crabpeople
Member

Okay I'm back for more. ding ding
quote:

This is a tier 2 class BUT I gave it a "special offer" bonus to offset some of the things I did on it.

Sorry about that. I probably confound your comment with someone else's.

quote:

Old Rage skill deals Round Up (Min/12) - (Max/12). The new one deals 20% per hit. So if we were to use the handy dandy medium range weapon of 60-60 that's 70 total for the old skill ((60/12)*14) and ((60*.2)*14) or 168 for the new. Please tell me how that's "more than the new rage"?

quote:

Old Rage does 100% stat damage per hit.


Well that explains the numbers I got. So old rage is working like old ChickenCow mcca? In case old rage worked as you said then the battle would have lasted 25 turns+ most likely.
And about those damage tests. I do think they're relevant for both offensive and hybrid armors.
I didn't mention the defensive aspect of the armor cuz I though it was obvious so far that with ALL the revamps made so far, the defensive aspects of the armors are WAY better than before.

quote:

I'll look at it and restat. But AGAIN, and I KNOW I've told you this before. Different class, different stating. It was ON Pirate that I told you that.

Well I didn't pay atention to that warning back then. My apologies and I'll refrain to use those kind of arguments from now on.

Last suggestion I'm going to do:
-I read some comments about how guardian heroes was a nuisance due to his darkness element. In fact there's lots of eneies with darkness resistance and in case they're are stronger than average mosnters or bosses, you're going to use the blind. With that and the possibility of moving the -powerboost to somewhere else I say:
Make Ray of light (light locked) a blind skill and guardian heroes (dark locked) the -powerboost skill. The duration,cd,damage,mana etc. is up to you.
The same problem might appear again with the possible -powerboost skill being dark locked but it's not as essential as the blind.

Also I would like to know what others think about this proposal.

Other stuff:
-Looks like the mana drain is broken. I tried it on the junkyard driller and the hero walks to him, steps back and does literally nothing. The message about recovering mana appears but you don't get any mana and the enemy isn't losing any.
-Fallen heroes doesn't look as impressive as before but it doesn't lag so I'm fine with it.
-Thank for the mana/cd reduction on spiral carve.

Edit: I prefer the mult doing 1 animation hitting all the enemies like deathknight mult. The animation makes sense aswell.

< Message edited by crabpeople -- 5/6/2015 15:30:45 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 407
5/6/2015 15:03:17   
Ash
Member


 That's the thing though. You can't cherry pick. If a class if a hybrid you have to recognize the defensive aspects and the offensive and use them together to make a determination. You can't just ignore one, knowing it's better than it was, and then just say something like "It's so much worse!" You gotta look at the big picture in that case and make a combined judgment. If you made that claim about ACCL? Yes, I would have taken that a lot more seriously. When you make it about a hybrid I kinda just scratch my head and go "what is he trying to prove with that?"

It's fine to compare but make sure you remember that it is different. Saying that it should be similar to the Pirate version is fine, but saying it should be exactly isn't. Stuns do the same damage as the basic attack, in both cases it is. It's the other parts that vary based on a variety of circumstances including what lean the armor is.

Better idea on the moving around. I'll fiddle with the numbers and make Light the Blind and Hero's the Boost nerf.

I don't know what it is about moving things around in a file in flash but apparently several skills got a "hey finish the skill" coding put at the beginning of the skill. I didn't put it there but most likely from moving a few things around stuff got jostled. I'll go through and see if I can find any others that have that on there.

That would be because I had to animate that on my own. I took a page from the original Guardian and made the "ghosts" work the same way. It's a heck of a lot less laggy and it compiles the file SOOOO much faster now because of that.

I'll get the MP part fixed but I do need to know if the Multi skill should stay as it is or go back to doing a shot at each enemy. I moved it to this because someone said it made more sense for the energy wave to hit everyone at once.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 408
5/6/2015 15:26:51   
Dragonman
Member

I've noticed a graphical glitch, when NSoD's Doom Portal activates, the portal is pointed backwards at the ground. When I can get a screenshot I'll put it on the bug tracker too if you want
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 409
5/6/2015 15:27:54   
Shadows Morgenstern
Member

About the energy multi, I think it should be an attack for each enemy personally. It doesn't take that long really. And it looks damn cool. XD Also it looks silly when you've an enemy on either side of you. *hits enemy in front of me and enemy 5 feet behind be drops too* .__.

_____________________________

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DF  Post #: 410
5/6/2015 15:30:41   
Ash
Member
quote:

I've noticed a graphical glitch, when NSoD's Doom Portal activates, the portal is pointed backwards at the ground. When I can get a screenshot I'll put it on the bug tracker too if you want

That's not a graphical glitch. The animation for the "special" has the class holding the back hand up and the palm glows. It's similar to how when it goes off on Necro it flexes, does the purple glow and your special smacks into the ground. I can try to adjust it but it's not breaking anything and other classes do things similar.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 411
5/6/2015 15:33:45   
Dragonman
Member

OK, well, to me it just looks really silly having this doom portal pointed at the floor. I won't keep trying to screenshot it though.

I know it's not a high priority or anything, but it'd be great if you could change it!
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 412
5/6/2015 15:34:17   
Daimyo Daimyo
Member

quote:

Also it looks silly when you've an enemy on either side of you. *hits enemy in front of me and enemy 5 feet behind be drops too* .__.
Some people actually like it when enemies drop without it seeming like you hit them. Makes you a whole lot more frightening to your enemies if they think you can kill them without touching them.
MQ  Post #: 413
5/6/2015 16:18:38   
lightriftwalker122
Member

@ Ash will the Guardian NPCs get a Art update like the revamp? i really like the new art and skills . A great improvement
Post #: 414
5/6/2015 16:26:00   
Brasca123
Member

the multi making the animation only once is more practical, but attacking 3 times for 3 enemies is far more badass... huuuuuuum i'd say keep the one attack per enemy, it's not that often that you'll need to use the multi, and guardian is not a class for farming IMO since it's a tier 2, so it can sacrifice a bit of time efficiency to have a better animation, that's what i think at least
AQ DF  Post #: 415
5/6/2015 17:03:13   
Shadows Morgenstern
Member

@Brasca: Excellently put High Summoner! I mean...errr....
DF  Post #: 416
5/6/2015 17:26:17   
DarkDevil
Member

on the vortex can it be slightly tinkered, it's only purpose is reducing all skills cooldown by a turn for 22 mp, which is inconsistent and not very practical.
AQ Epic  Post #: 417
5/6/2015 17:31:57   
Ash
Member
quote:

13. Vortex
+250 Parry for 1 turn.
+25 Boost for 4 turns.
CoolDownAmount = 6
Mana = 22

How are you getting a 1 turn CD reduction out of this? It's not anywhere close to being a CD reduction in any sense of the word. It's a Shield/Buff.

quote:

Ash will the Guardian NPCs get a Art update like the revamp? i really like the new art and skills . A great improvement

Most likely not any time soon if at all. I'd need a lot of time to get every single NPC positioned properly to do that.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 418
5/6/2015 17:35:42   
DarkDevil
Member

the shield only lasts for 1 turn so it doesn't open any "safe attack window"
the attack button is worth more than 100% and i don't attack on the turn it's used.

so it's only "practical" use is a 1 turn cd reducer.
AQ Epic  Post #: 419
5/6/2015 17:36:04   
Lordk0z
Member
 

 Erm? I guess since it's a 1 turn parry buff, it technically delays the fight by a turn?
Maybe?
Post #: 420
5/6/2015 17:47:27   
Ash
Member
quote:

the shield only lasts for 1 turn so it doesn't open any "safe attack window"
the attack button is worth more than 100% and i don't attack on the turn it's used.

so it's only "practical" use is a 1 turn cd reducer.


Wrong. What do you call healing 100% of the damage an enemy would do to you? On top of that you then get buffed damage for 4 more turns. It doesn't MATTER what you want to call it. You're effectively healing 100% of the damage you would have taken as well as now dealing more damage. Would you like to try again?
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 421
5/6/2015 17:55:04   
Brasca123
Member

@darkdevil. i'm not good at math, but... +25 boost in 4 turns, if you use it with GD you get (+25*300%) and then rage (+25 *280%) that is a + 145% in 2 turns, you still have 2 turns left to deal bonus damage, just that 145% extra damage is enough to compensate one turn without attacking, since the attack gives 120% damage

of course, my math could be wrong, i'm not proud of it, but i think i'm right, that makes the boost more than enough IMO
AQ DF  Post #: 422
5/6/2015 17:55:04   
Lordk0z
Member
 

 Was Guardian Shield nerfed?

No? ~Ash

Odd, I could have sworn it lasted longer before.

< Message edited by Lordk0z -- 5/6/2015 18:21:06 >
Post #: 423
5/6/2015 18:11:18   
DarkDevil
Member

@Brasca123 actually it's additive so it ends up as 100% whatever it's used with as long as you attack, GD will do 325% and rage will do 305%

@Ash ..... i am sorry i was looking at it the wrong way..... my bad

It's fine. You have to always take into account all angles of what a skill can do before deciding on what about it needs changing. At the front it does appear to be a DPT loss, BUT when viewed as a shield, which is classified as a heal, it then becomes a 1 turn "all damage removed" skill that then contributes 100% damage. (which is actually more than a healing skill that does that should be giving.) Always remember to try and look at skills to see how they can be used in various situations, I intentionally design some that do some pretty nice things that might not be apparent just at a glance. ~Ash

on the voting i'd agree on bringing back the old multi, just for the sole purpose of being surrounded from both sides.


edit: now that the blind is on the light attack could the description be changed to "Blinding light attack", also i like it however it lasts for 5 turns and has 5 turns cooldown so could you check that , thanks you've done a great job with the class

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 5/7/2015 7:29:12 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 424
5/6/2015 18:24:07   
DarkLore
Member

Hey Ash.. What exact price ranges do you have planned for the helms, cape, and updated blade? I'm assuming not too high since we did have to pay real money to get it.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 425
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