RE: =ED= Official Tactical Mercenary Balance Discussion Thread


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8/25/2014 21:48:00

Mother1
Member

Actually Mark of blood and blood commander can be used for 4 turns. Mark of blood works with the strike where as Blood commander you apply it than use it for the next couple of turns. However, is it the most abusive build in epic duel? I don't think so.

While it is strong there are counters to this build.

Shields, Intimidate, Azreal torment/ Heart attack, hatchling rush, and in some cases even the bunny bot's color blast. There are many ways to counter this build it all comes down to how you play against the person.

I myself seeing as I have the Azreal borg use heart attack to counter blood commnader's effect with it. Others I have seen use shields and intimidate. So no I don't think it is the most abusive build in epic duel.

Epic	Post #: 51

8/25/2014 22:23:02

The berserker killer
Member

Sorry I stopped reading when you said both skills can be used for the same amount of turns.come on Mother, you know thats not trie

Epic

Post #: 52

8/25/2014 22:38:26

Mother1
Member

@ the berserker killer

Sorry about that what I meant to say was they can be used for up to 4 attacks my bad. Cause with Mark of blood you use a strike attack to apply it and you can use it up to three more turns after this which means you can get up to 4 attacks with it.

Blood commander while it has no strike lasts for 4 turns meaning that it can be used for up to 4 attacks.

Epic	Post #: 53

8/26/2014 1:18:10

a non varium player
Member

Being a tlm I can say that giving blood commander will make tlm op but field commander right now is stupid and useless new defense ignoring and
Crit chance skill improving with tech is needed to this class as lack of non str attacks this class is underpowered of all.

Post #: 54

8/26/2014 10:58:20

Stonehawk
Member

We all know that Tech Mages and Tactical Mercenaries were famous for being the energy controllers pf of the game. But since passives were gone and replaced with batteries, Tacticals are experiencing problems with it, because all other classes can take all they get from battery, plus cooldown is 1 more than all the other energy controlling skills. So here's my suggestion to bring back energy control advantage for tacticals, since mages already got assimilation:

My suggestion now is a little change on field commander. Its only advantage is 3 more strength than blood commander, which means nothing for it being the only effect.

Suggestion is to make it increase as much strength as blood commander and give one of the additional effects below.

1.
Static Commander
Increase Strength, granting ~~lifesteal~~ energy stealing equal to 30% of Strength gain for 4 turns (60% energy would be too much, so I halved it)

2.
Energy Commander
Increases Strength for you or an ally for 4 turns. converts 15% of all damage received into energy.

< Message edited by Stonehawk -- 8/26/2014 11:02:54 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 55

8/26/2014 13:36:08

kosmo
Member

^it would be fun to see something similiar, that insted of buffing strenght incrases support :)

whatever i like the idea, not sure about the numbers but still a cool suggestion.

Epic	Post #: 56

8/27/2014 7:39:36

noremako
Member

quote:

Energy Commander
Increases Strength for you or an ally for 4 turns. converts 15% of all damage received into energy.

I had already suggested this earlier in the thread, but this existed already.

Reflex Boost once gave back energy on being hit. I suggested (instead of a new commander) to replace Field Commander with Reflex Boost, and replace Reflex Boost on Blood Mage with Blood Commander.

< Message edited by noremako -- 8/27/2014 7:40:32 >

Post #: 57

8/27/2014 10:58:58

Stonehawk
Member

Absolutely not. Blood commander on a blood mage, NO. I think everyone know what's gonna happens since they already got mark of blood and str abusers.
Mercenaries always had a strength buff, and reflex boost lost it's energy regain, so I suggested something unique for tacticals, without overpowering other skills.

Oh, and I suggested those 2 commanders to give tacticals back a little energy control, I see nothing wrong with it. Giving reflex boost back that additional effect would boost Bounties aswell, and in my opinion the biggest unbalancing problem is on tacticals only, because of that 5 turns cooldown battery being the only choice.

< Message edited by Stonehawk -- 8/27/2014 11:02:57 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 58

8/27/2014 14:26:50

santonik
Member

What you think this.

field commander + (basically old passive reroute)

Taking damage and gain free energy. 30-33% per damage going energy pool. last 4 round. only buff affect time.

Number can be changes.

Epic	Post #: 59

8/27/2014 16:50:39

Bionic Bear
Helpful!

The main problem with TLMs is that they have no debuff.
While I realize that that TLM was waaaay OP when they first came out with smokescreen + maul, all I ask is that there be put some kind of debuff. Take out field commander, it's completely useless. Smoke, malfunction, even intimidate would do as a replacement. Considering how terribly the skills synergise with each other currently, there may as well be something that synergises with all builds. A debuff would nicely fill that role.
Sorry if debuff is the wrong word, it looks strange to me as I write this.

Post #: 60

8/28/2014 3:13:44

noremako
Member

Smokescreen should replace Atom Smasher

Post #: 61

8/30/2014 19:35:30

Stonehawk
Member

@noremako

quote:

Smokescreen should replace Atom Smasher

All classes have a skill to take energy. This would make it impossible for tacticals to take opponents' energy, so I do not support. It was kind of selfish too, 'cause I've seen tacticals that took energy with atom smasher and worked not so bad, it's difficult but happens.

Suggestion is to replace atom smasher with EMP or field commander replaced with smoke screen seems fine to me, if it is to get a debuff.

Both wouldn't be good since they are based on tech. I think smoke should be improved with support, to be honest, just like all debuffs.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 62

8/30/2014 19:48:28

Mother1
Member

@ Stonehawk

There is a reason why it isn't improved with support. Remember BH already has Energy shield, Reflex boost, and Static grenade which all work with support. Plus they have Massacre which has a support requirement along with Shadow arts. That right there makes 5 moves that altogether that require/improve with support. Add smoke and that makes half of BH skill tree.

Also giving TLM EMP grenade would cause problems. What happens if EMP because too powerful or too weak for TLM but is perfectly balanced with CH? You risk making a skill that is balanced for another class either underpowered or overpowered with another class.

The same could be said of Smokescreen if you give it to Tactical merc and all of a sudden BH or TLM becomes either too weak or two strong with it. We need to focus on giving the classes different moves and not giving them other skills that the others have.

Epic	Post #: 63

8/31/2014 2:38:30

kittycat
Member

Well Tactical Mercenaries don't really need a debuff in my opinion. They have a stat that directly increases Strength, as well as two moves with lengthy effectiveness, lasting 4 or 5 rounds. These defense capabilities can serve as effective damage reducers.

@Mother 1: Giving TLM EMP Grenade would buff TLM Tech Focus builds in a way because they can mass drain a large amount of energy without the risk of blocking.

Post #: 64

8/31/2014 8:18:28

Stonehawk
Member

@kittycat

I don't see any reason not to buff focus builds for TLM, since they are the only ones that can't do it. TLMs don't have an effective skill improved with tech, all other classes do.

- BMs got plasma cannon.
- mercs got bunker, surgical strike.
- tech mages got technician to make tech even higher for robot, plasma bolt and Super Charge. No wonder they're called TECH MAGES.
- Bounties have smoke, a debuff improved with tech
- Cybers got EMP and a stun skill improved with tech

- TLMs got only Surgical Strike, which everyone knows it's nearly impossible to use. High energy means BMs energy drain forever. Battery is 5 turns cooldown and the only skill to get energy for TLMs, which can be easily countered.

Now tell me why you think they shouldn't have EMP grenade, 'cause I see nothing wrong with it, if comparing to other classes.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 65

8/31/2014 11:59:34

Dual Thrusters
Member

You have the best EP regain in the game (battery backup) combined with the best EP remover (EMP) and the strongest offensive debuff (smoke), that is going to cause some problems.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 66

8/31/2014 23:05:21

kittycat
Member

@Stonehawk: TLMs are in a dire need of a buff, and I support them getting buffed, but having them receive EMP Grenade of Static Smash wouldn't be a good idea because they can instantly drain 80% of one's energy move which is not cool. If they need a technology-powered move, I suppose they can have a different multi that improves with Technology. Frenzy can be switched to be powered by Tech if necessary, which is perfectly fine in order to counter Strength builds.

Post #: 67

9/1/2014 8:42:59

Stonehawk
Member

I never suggested Static Smash. EMP instead of Atom Smasher, no smoke. Smoke + EMP is tech abuse for sure, because they would have 3 moves to be improved with tech.
I suggested something like a "reroute" commander and EMP. I only would suggest smoke in this case if it was improved by support, but it isn't.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 68

9/13/2014 10:51:07

suboto
Member

Ive been playing tlm for a long time and i just dont like whats happened to the class.
Passives to actives killed the class as a whole.
What made the class different was its passive armor with that gone its just like the other class but lacks a debuff.

Epic	Post #: 69

9/13/2014 12:15:05

Bionic Bear
Helpful!

The skills of this class just...don't work together. TM is perfectly OP, it has four skills that scale off of dex/tech. That class rewards players for putting points into defense stats.
Problem with TLM is that its skills are all over the place. I know it was OP as all heck when it came out, but it got hit too dang hard. There's too many buffs as skills, and not enough attacking ones that can be used together effectively.
-double strike/frenzy scale with strength
-stun grenade with dex
-surgical with tech
-artillery with support
There's nothing that rewards you for putting your points into one stat, because you need to have stats everywhere to use any of the skills together. It's like TLM is made to force you into a focus build. Anything outside of 5 focus/IA gets demolished. The only thing that you can use while using a focus build is mineral armor/blood shield/heal/battery. Forget offense. You can't do enough damage with offensive skills to make it worthwhile.
Compare that with TM, where all you need is a ton of dex/tech to defeat your enemies. TLM needs some skills changed around.

Post #: 70

9/13/2014 13:10:30

suboto
Member

I feel this class could benefit more with:
energy stun grenade
replaceing physical stun grenade
Now for something to replace field commander
but a new skill to keep it different from other class and yes a offensive skill
Maybe a skill that works against hp builds
Name: Hammer grenade improves with none
does a percentage of a players hp
10%~~>25% of life range

< Message edited by suboto -- 9/13/2014 13:18:14 >

Epic	Post #: 71

9/13/2014 13:16:14

Dual Thrusters
Member

How would making Stun Grenade deal E damage benefit TLM at all?

AQW

Epic

Post #: 72

9/13/2014 13:19:43

suboto
Member

E would improve with tech so it works with surigical build^ were as dex improved grenade only works with mineral armor a defensive set up
Tlm already has 2 defensive skills so it doesnt necessary need a dex improved offensive skill. If they were to keep the grenade P then it would need a buff in damage

I think field commander replaced with the skill i mentioned above would benefit the class far more but wouldnt op it

quote:

Name: Hammer grenade improves with none
does a percentage of a players hp
10%~~>25% of life range

^ that replaceing tlm field commander would give the class some difference from other classes plus would retire the skill field commander which needs to be done since thats outdated.
Plus would be a new counter based skill to hp builds.

< Message edited by suboto -- 9/13/2014 13:28:10 >

Epic	Post #: 73

9/13/2014 14:38:06

Bionic Bear
Helpful!

@DT by E stun grenade he meant plasma grenade.

Post #: 74

9/20/2014 0:40:09

suboto
Member

What I feel should change in balance for tlm is
Atomic smash changed to either be unblockable or improve with dex.
This would make dex build for tlm more usable seeing as it now would have P stun grenade/mineral armor/atomic smash improveing with dex.
Field commander changed to E stun grenade which improves with tech this would make tech tlm more usable seeing as they now have E stun grenade/ss/robot that improve with tech.

overall:
Atomic smash improve with dex
field commander ~> E stun grenade

Since tlm is a tactial class which currently have to many buff skills adding E stun grenade and removeing field commander would improve the class and its quality

quote:

I currently play four classes and im finding my level40 tlm is on loseing streaks against all the other classes why?
1. it lost its strong point which was its passive armor. The %'s should be nerfed and cost 0 energy but require 1 turn to use and have a four turn cooldown that would raise the use out of this skill from lvl1-3 to lvl1-10 making it more of a class difference rather then a skill thats just like the other two def buff skills.
2. Its skills are mostly buffs=Field medic/mineral armor/blood shield/field commander
3.Field commander is a skill that was updated in delta which was the last time it was useful
4.Support multi just isnt worth useing around 37-40 what that needs is some level improvement like +20damage at level37 just for reaching this level to compete with the upper level range
5.Atomic smash is also a updated skill that was last time useful in delta. Its the 2nd lowest energy drain 1st being assimilation. This needs a buff in % or improves with dex
6. Field commander should be replaced with E stun grenade

Wow thats exactly on the issue

< Message edited by suboto -- 9/20/2014 8:48:56 >

Epic	Post #: 75

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