RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1


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4/6/2015 2:31:59

SheLooked18ToMe
Banned

Yeah and that's all they do.

My point is they don't really do much else than hitting, in AQ most pets got some cool special attack or some nice passive(a stun/para/lower defenses) that goes along with every attack, they also got awesome utility pets like Dunamis/Poelala/Thernda.
This doesn't just go for the pets, every item in DF is either made and can be used for 2 purposes either hitting more or getting hit for less(The first being more a more common sight) , we don't have anything other than that, like only 5% of all weapons actually have some specials that go along with them and most trinkets aren't anything other than "getting more stats and a damage skill", would be cool to get some stuff like Blood Contract(deal more damage take more damage), An item that acts like Chieftain's IronThorn, Pet's like Vampoglin Lord that have some mechanic to them( I'm only giving examples from AQ because every item has something more to it rather than the way it is in DF, not saying we should flat out copy and have the same game just giving an example of what i mean)

Post #: 476

4/6/2015 4:53:38

dragon_monster
Member

quote:

In a short answer, No.

In a long answer. No, I'm not going to adjust crit up at all in any way. It was nerfed for a reason. Crit was never supposed to be the "main damage stat" that people were treating it as. Over time it crept up and overshadowed everything else when that was not the stats original intention. It's *still* not where it needs to be, but if I nerf it to where it does need to be I'd have a full scale riot because of knee jerk reactions. (If you all notice at the current crit rate you aren't really having any issues are you? Mmmhmmm) If we're being completely honest you don't need any crit above 20 at all. (You don't need any more than 10 with DoomKnight if we're being honest) With how classes are now stated you have more than enough damage that anything above a 1 in 5 chance of a crit is overkill, plain and simple. You all may not like hearing that but it's the truth. You're getting a 50 cap total because I was trying to be nice and lessen the blow of "nerfing" it. The intentional "bad" scaling from items is just that, intentional. It's meant to help slow down rushing to the cap and it's an additional layer along with the item stat redo's that I'm trying to get ready to do to limit the overall "overkill" damage that was done. If the notes I'm seeing all over the place of people trying to get "maxed nerfed crit" are any indication my attempt to make it more in line weren't heeded for what they were.

The Rolith and Ash guests will be adjusted damage wise to bring them into line with the other guests in game. The same goes for Symone now that she's a perm guest. As for the Toddler and Kid dragon guests, eventually we'll update them. It's a very large project to do so though as it requires redoing all of their built in skills as well as adjusting a lot of other back end stuff to make them work right. Once either Verly or I work through the back log of other stuff that needs doing we'll get to them but it's going to take a while to get that much free time.

Do you mean the level cap?

Post #: 477

4/6/2015 5:17:52

Dracojan
Member

^clearly not. its the crit cap.

DF	Post #: 478

4/6/2015 5:48:03

Branl
Member

quote:

Yeah and that's all they do.

My point is they don't really do much else than hitting, in AQ most pets got some cool special attack or some nice passive(a stun/para/lower defenses) that goes along with every attack, they also got awesome utility pets like Dunamis/Poelala/Thernda.
This doesn't just go for the pets, every item in DF is either made and can be used for 2 purposes either hitting more or getting hit for less(The first being more a more common sight) , we don't have anything other than that, like only 5% of all weapons actually have some specials that go along with them and most trinkets aren't anything other than "getting more stats and a damage skill", would be cool to get some stuff like Blood Contract(deal more damage take more damage), An item that acts like Chieftain's IronThorn, Pet's like Vampoglin Lord that have some mechanic to them( I'm only giving examples from AQ because every item has something more to it rather than the way it is in DF, not saying we should flat out copy and have the same game jist giving an exampe of what I mean)

I seem to be remembering those pets made Lucky Beastmaster the strongest build around.
Also seem to be remembering you just moved the goalposts.
All you said was that pets were useless, not that they needed fancy special effects.

Post #: 479

4/6/2015 9:15:23

crabpeople
Member

quote:

If the notes I'm seeing all over the place of people trying to get "maxed nerfed crit" are any indication my attempt to make it more in line weren't heeded for what they were.

*Walks away while whistling*

AQW

Post #: 480

4/6/2015 9:39:45

Ash
Member

quote:

Will pets ever get a revamp and become useful?

They will be adjusted to be useful at their level range, but on the scope of what you want no. AQ and DF have a very large fundamental difference. Every armor in DF is a class armor with more skills than any current armor in AQ. (Discounting joke armors like Angler and CCL and Snugglebear for obvious reasons, they're jokes) Most AQ armors are 1 attack button and *maybe* a skill. This means that you get more "fun" stuff like nerfs and buffs and special attacks from weapons and pets. That's not how DF works. In DF all your "fun" stuff is tied to the class and trinkets. While there are a few weapons and pets that do more than just being a source of damage, those are not the norm.

While I'm working through the stat update on items I'll be making it so that pets have damage ranges that are consistent so that you can use a Pet + weapon with a Cha build. At the same time they'll be getting level appropriate Bonus and Crit so that they can provide a full bonus to damage and not be more of a burden. That's the most that they'll really get though. Making a full range of "effect" pets that do everything AQ pets can do isn't really in the scope of how DF was designed. While we do have a few, those are so uncommon that you have less options in terms of them.

< Message edited by Ash -- 4/6/2015 9:40:51 >

AQW

Post #: 481

4/6/2015 9:42:57

Azan
Member

Hmm, quick question: will DF Poelala get higher level tiers? Because suddenly her +2 Crit and +10 Defense seem very attractive.

Possibly. ~Ash

< Message edited by Ash -- 4/6/2015 9:55:04 >

Post #: 482

4/6/2015 9:43:41

megakyle777
Member

That's fair enough for most pets Ash and I won't complain on that regard, but I'd personally argue a exemption form that rule for our Pet Dragon, since he's clearly supposed to be trainable, have several fun skills ETC, and be a cool addition to the game.

The dragon falls into the "While there are a few weapons and pets that do more than just being a source of damage, those are not the norm." ~Ash

< Message edited by Ash -- 4/6/2015 9:50:01 >

DF	Post #: 483

4/6/2015 9:46:32

dragon_monster
Member

Why do we have any kind of pets when the baby dragon is better then all of them? I mean do people even use other kind of pets besides the baby dragon?

Post #: 484

4/6/2015 9:55:03

crabpeople
Member

While it's true the dragon pet is the best pet,it doesn't best the rest of the pets in all aspects. For example poelala can give you a +30 in a defensive stat, your dragon can't. A MOP cat can deal higher and more consistent damage than your dragon. Plushie Escherion cna give you a +30 crit buff I believe. Your Dragon gives +10 I think and It happens once in a while.
And remember that having a fully trained dragon takes 1,5- 2 years.

EDIT: here it is

Ash: Yeh I've always seen the dragon as a Jack of All trades or a super utility pet.

< Message edited by crabpeople -- 4/6/2015 10:19:23 >

AQW

Post #: 485

4/6/2015 9:57:36

dragon_monster
Member

quote:

Plushie Escherion cna give you a +30 crit buff I believe.

Really?

Post #: 486

4/6/2015 9:58:44

Brasca123
Member

@dragon_monster. DC pets can do 300 damage... that's quite a lot, i think the utility from the pet dragon is not necessarily better than the raw damage, also, chesire twilly has a higher chance of healing you than the pet dragon IIRC, so it's more reliable if you need healing, also, training the pet dragon takes too much time, 600 days if you use only the gold food, some people don't want to wait that much to have a strong pet

@ash. regarding CRIT, is it actually possible to change the displayed number from 7/2=3 to simple 3? that would help people that are not on the forums to understand how much CRIT chance each item does, of course, if this requires tweaking every single item that gives CRIT, than i'd rather stay with the number cut in half rather than the real number, don't want to give that much trouble to you guys

DB item stats are a static number that the game uses to calculate crit. If I were to cut that number then I'd have to manually divide every item in the game. While not the worst thing it would then lower stats on items and people would scream because they don't know what happened to their numbers. The game automatically does it and displays the "nerfed" crit on the stats panel for your character so that's about as good as I can show right now. I still have people asking me why their Mana is lower even though there's a "Stat Changes" button in the BoL that won't be going anywhere for a very long time. ~Ash

edit: ninja'd by crab, xD

< Message edited by Ash -- 4/6/2015 10:02:43 >

Post #: 487

4/6/2015 10:13:51

Ash
Member

quote:

While it's true the dragon pet is the best pet,it doesn't best the rest of the pets in all aspects. For example poelala can give you a +30 in a defensive stat, your dragon can't. A MOP cat can deal higher and more consistent damage than your dragon. Plushie Escherion cna give you a +30 crit buff I believe. Your Dragon gives +10 I think and It happens once in a while.
And remember that having a fully trained dragon takes 1,5- 2 years.

Something to keep in mind though is your dragons does ALL of that at the same time. A "I can do everything" is going to do less of whatever it does than the thing that does only one of them. So yes, there will be other pets that heal for more or put more into one stat, but there won't be a pet that does as much as the dragon can do all at the same time if you build it the right way. The MOP cat is also a tad high on the damage dealing side so I need to figure out if that can be adjusted down as it's doing as much, or more, of a skill's damage every turn. Pets are supposed to supplement, not replace, a skill.

AQW

Post #: 488

4/6/2015 10:16:11

megakyle777
Member

Hey Ash, quick question since it does not appear to be covered by the first post, but are there plans to either restat, or entirely revamp, the Dragon? I ask because I'd imagine with 2-3 different stat alterations since it's implementation that a bunch of things are not working as they are supposed to being either over or underpowered, or just plain bugged. Plus it could be a chance to do cool stuff. XD

DF	Post #: 489

4/6/2015 10:18:54

Ash
Member

Yes, I thought I already mentioned that somewhere else though when you asked. We'll look at redoing it down the road, not now as we don't have time. As I know I've already said that's a huge project and we need a lot of time to even consider doing it right.

AQW

Post #: 490

4/6/2015 10:19:38

Branl
Member

quote:

Something to keep in mind though is your dragons does ALL of that at the same time. A "I can do everything" is going to do less of whatever it does than the thing that does only one of them. So yes, there will be other pets that heal for more or put more into one stat, but there won't be a pet that does as much as the dragon can do all at the same time if you build it the right way. The MOP cat is also a tad high on the damage dealing side so I need to figure out if that can be adjusted down as it's doing as much, or more, of a skill's damage every turn. Pets are supposed to supplement, not replace, a skill.

Translation: Those are some nice MOP cats you've got there.
It would sure be a shame if we nerfed them

Post #: 491

4/6/2015 10:22:12

megakyle777
Member

You probably did Ash. But never hurts for a reminder.

DF	Post #: 492

4/6/2015 20:44:17

kpnut
Member

Got a question about the hit rate (it's probably been answered but reading through 20 pages of a topic IS NOT my idea of a fun time;) what's going on with it? Every third attack I make seems to miss (I would blame the RNG but I've never had this problem before) and it gets worse with the titan dragon where getting the skills for it has become a chore (rather than the minor inconvenience) would just like some clearing up on the matter as it's killing my enjoyment of the game somewhat.

AQW

Post #: 493

4/6/2015 20:54:15

Ash
Member

Nothing in terms of Bonus was altered. The only part of the hit rate formula I changed was something farther down than where bonus is initially decided on, and even then it wouldn't affect it in a large way. I'm not exactly sure what's going on. My advice would be clear your cache and then close/reopen your browser (this is to make sure you have a new version of the game so that there's no conflicts which may cause issues like that) and then check your hit rate on something with no real defense, like the junkyard driller, and see if your hit rate is still bad. If it is I'll look at the battle engine again and see what's going on.

AQW

Post #: 494

4/6/2015 21:45:56

kpnut
Member

@Ash: Admittedly I was exaggerating with the every 3rd attack thing and against the junk yard driller I had no misses, but when I did dragon rider testing my hit rate varied from good (no misses) to atrocious (every second attack missing) on all 3 of the characters I tested on (one with really high luck, one with none and one with low luck) so it might have just been the RNG being the annoying troll it usually is.

AQW

Post #: 495

4/6/2015 21:53:35

Sapphire2345
Member

^What levels are the characters you tested it on? The monster's on dragon rider skill quest are not scaled to level so lower level characters will miss more.

DF	Post #: 496

4/6/2015 22:30:25

Branl
Member

RNG on Hard mode is even worse^
You miss your opponents a lot even at zero M/R/M and zero B/D/P
At the same time, it's the only way I can really enjoy the game, as mobs on normal mode die in one hit and Bosses usually die in less than 10 turns.
I would enjoy Hard Mode a lot more if the RNG wasn't so chaotic though.

Lord Frydae on Extreme Hard mode is a lot of fun, more fun than I've had with most other bosses. My only problem with him is that he regens his health on Misses and he regenerates 900 Hp everytime he uses that attack.

Extreme Hard Mode Mummidragon... is an example of RNG gone wrong.
That thing sits at 160 M/R/M on extreme mode alone, with hard mode you can't hit that thing period.

Post #: 497

4/12/2015 7:44:15

Shadows Morgenstern
Member

This has probably been said before but I might have missed it. Are the icons for items both in inventory and in the bank, when in the bank menu derpy for anyone else? Mine can show any of the icons, and usually redboxed out. Like so. I've only noticed this after the update so yeah. Could be massively late on this. xD

Below: Thanks. xD

< Message edited by Shadows Morgenstern -- 4/12/2015 7:57:50 >

_____________________________

Your signature has been removed because Photobucket replaced it
with a third-party hosting notice that was too large for the forums.

DF	Post #: 498

4/12/2015 7:51:26

Chazero
Member

Only the inventory screen was invented. The bank will be done sometime in the future.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 499

4/12/2015 8:29:27

dragon_monster
Member

If all you do not mind how big is your bonus for your chars I really never encountered your problems but I do have over 60 bonus points. Now that critical is not as important you must really make sure that all your hits count. Bonus is very important now if the most important stat.

Post #: 500

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