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RE: Gamma Bot Must Get A Fix

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6/2/2015 15:44:04   
Lord Machaar
Member

^ Maybe to be able to use dread desolator auxs?
MQ Epic  Post #: 126
6/2/2015 15:47:39   
zer00x
Member

In my opinion assault bot should "Clean" Poison too,, but not completely, like 50% poison damage reduction (Not exactly 50%, could be any reasonable %) or something like that.
AQW  Post #: 127
6/2/2015 16:29:56   
Uchiha Sarada
Banned
Machaar: I think you meant to say the Azrael Zooka?
AQW Epic  Post #: 128
6/2/2015 17:37:23   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

@mother1 Azraels Borg:0 energy, reusable, however it's pretty useless
AQW Epic  Post #: 129
6/2/2015 17:44:13   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Uchiha Sarada, she said that the azrael zooka and bio borg bought serve the same purpose, well, if it's pretty useless to have them both equiped, therefore you can substitute one of them.
A- Bio borg with another bot.
B- Or azrael zooka with dread desolator (which is the best option).

I said you can keep bio borg and use dread auxs, there is no need to use both of them anyways, because in the end, some builds prefer to have bio borg while using a dread aux (support builds?) and other builds prefer having the azrael zooka while having another type of bot (e.g 5 focus.)
MQ Epic  Post #: 130
6/2/2015 17:56:36   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

@Machaar

I used 600 as a basic calculation to show you the numbers.
I know RNG affects the exact damage of your attack. But the fact is it will still do 30 more damage than it would have done.

@Uchiha
Earlier you mentioned..
quote:

Mother: The Bots You Mentioned do not deserve a buff at all, they have pretty good specials and just because is not used by alot of players doesn't mean it needs a buff, I know that the current meta of the game doesn't favor the bots you mentioned because of debuffs and all the unblockables attacks we have but these bots were designed to to that work and they do it pretty good, Gamma bot is just a dmg bot and the special is not even noticeable when compared to the normal attack and even worse, the addition of robot dmg for ranks makes the special way less noticeable. For a dmg bot only, it does its job kinda bad and its outperformed by others dmg bots, A Buff for the gamma bot shouldn't be something huge, just a simple buff for the bot because it needs it, it doesn't mean it will be OP.


Well, the fact that you mentioned the 'Meta' doesn't favor these bots means they don't need a buff contradicts some of the argument for buffing gamma bot.
The current 'Meta' involves "most people balancing out their Res/Def".

So by your words, Gamma Bot does not need a buff, its just not a favored bot at this point in the game. Just Like Assault Bot.

quote:

these bots were designed to to that work and they do it pretty good

Gamma Bot was designed to have 2 types of hits, Physical & Energy.


Also, you mentioned this thread is about Gamma Bot ONLY.. so don't bring legendary ranks into the picture. They're irrelevant.

< Message edited by AQWorldsFarmer -- 6/2/2015 17:58:20 >
Post #: 131
6/2/2015 18:04:28   
Satafou
Member

The issue with the Gamma bot is, it was designed to be a brawler bot. Back in early gamma, when the Gamma bot was released the Gamma bot was able to use it's physical attack and then the following turn use it's energy attack, that's what it was designed to do. Now because most people even out their def/res, not in this meta, but in general it's been that way for a very long time now, as well as the fact that you can no longer use both your active and your special attack within a few turns of each other, the Gamma bot has lost it's soul purpose, to be a brawler bot. Now you have to choose between one or the other and you will use most likely the same one every time. Therefore the Gamma bot lacks a real special ability, and if the special doesn't get buffed enough for it to feel like a special then the Gamma bot has to be redesigned as there really is no other option.
Post #: 132
6/2/2015 18:16:12   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

I know RNG affects the exact damage of your attack. But the fact is it will still do 30 more damage than it would have done.


Can you give me a link in the ED wiki that is saying this?
If an attack "A" deals X damage, and another attack "B" deals X+30 damage, it doesn't mean that attack "B" will end up always doing more damage than attack "A" due to RNG, for various reasons:
- RNG.
- RNG is way bigger than "+30".
- RNG is controlled by the damage interval dealt by both attacks. e.g: 611 - 655 robot damage, the interval here equals 44.
- RNG is controlled by the defense/resistance interval. e.g: 374 - 442 resistance, the interval here equals 68.
- Combine both you will obtain 112. So any robot can deal X ± 112 damage with its normal damage. This number is way bigger than 5% "more damage" given by gamma fire, therefore it can go unnoticed if the bot hits X - 112.

@Satafou.
quote:

Now you have to choose between one or the other and you will use most likely the same one every time


It's not really choosing, your opponent's defense/resistance difference makes you use gamma fire/gamma punch, and you will probably stick to the same attack like you are playing with a bot without its special attack, any bot.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/3/2015 8:41:52 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 133
6/2/2015 18:19:52   
Uchiha Sarada
Banned
quote:

Also, you mentioned this thread is about Gamma Bot ONLY


I'm talking about Only Robots and this case is the Gamma bot and not the other robots, all the others pvp elements can be used just like Focus.

quote:

Well, the fact that you mentioned the 'Meta' doesn't favor these bots means they don't need a buff contradicts some of the argument for buffing gamma bot.
The current 'Meta' involves "most people balancing out their Res/Def".

So by your words, Gamma Bot does not need a buff, its just not a favored bot at this point in the game. Just Like Assault Bot.

That is a way Different Case, Assault Bot is not used that much because Nobody Uses Huge Debuffs in the game so this make the special not that Noticeable or not even used in battle, The Gamma Bot is a DMG Robot and it doesn't do its work that good, its actually bad doing the DMG Work, It was created for DMG and how good is the bot doing that?, Well Not Good Enough, how good is assault bot debuffing? Very Good. Also there are plenty of arguments that proves that the Bot needs a buff that don't have anything to do with what I said.


_____________________________

Dattebayo
AQW Epic  Post #: 134
6/2/2015 18:32:56   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

quote:

So any robot can deal X ± 112 damage with its normal damage. This number is way bigger than 5% "more damage" given by gamma fire, therefore it can go unnoticed if the bot hits X - 112.


infernal android only does 120 extra damage, 112 is only 8 away from 120. So there for, IA needs to be buffed as a Damage bot too. Since the RNG can easily do the +120 damage without the %.
(buffing IA was sarcasm)

Your logic doesn't make sense to me.
Post #: 135
6/2/2015 18:37:51   
Lord Machaar
Member

You didn't understand my logic because you haven't understood RNG in the first place.
If IA can do still do 8 (608 damage) more damage, then gamma fire for example will do - 82 (518) less damage. Considering that the base damage is 600.
Does it need a buff now?

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/2/2015 18:50:58 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 136
6/2/2015 18:51:52   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

I will forever leave this thread with one last comment because we're beating a horse long after its dead.

30 extra damage is still 30 extra damage no matter what the RNG does. (Again, this is a base example)

If the RNG picks 620 out of 611-655 and 315 resistance out of 310-335
you damage would be 305. With the +5% of the 620 base damage(+31), you will now hit 336.

Once again, Gamma Bot (UNLIKE INFERNAL ANDROID) has a REPEATABLE special. Yes, I said Special because it IS a special.

Just because MOST people balance their Res/Def doesnt mean EVERYONE balances it. There are plenty of Dex Mages that gamma bot has a huge advantage against over infernal android.
Most of their gaps are so high, there mere armor resistance wont even out the stats. No bot is meant to be the most useful bot of every situation.

Legendary points are an invalid argument because that is only available to lvl 40s, only part of the players.

Have fun with the rest of your discussion guys.


< Message edited by AQWorldsFarmer -- 6/2/2015 18:55:06 >
Post #: 137
6/2/2015 19:17:47   
Lord Machaar
Member

If you can't continue the discussion due to your incapability to defend your points of view, for one reason or another, well good luck with your real life, because life can be pretty cruel.
Anyways, moving on to the discussion:

Here is what you said:
quote:

30 extra damage is still 30 extra damage no matter what the RNG does. (Again, this is a base example)

If the RNG picks 620 out of 611-655 and 315 resistance out of 310-335
you damage would be 305. With the +5% of the 620 base damage(+31), you will now hit 336.


Here is what I said:
quote:

If IA can do still do 8 (608 damage) more damage, then gamma fire for example will do - 82 (518) less damage. Considering that the base damage is 600.

Alright, saying again what I've said in the above quote, but on your example,
You said that a bot can deal 611 - 655 with base damage, and the opponent has 310 - 335 resistance (even it is incorrect but it is an example anyways), saying that RNG picks 620 robot damage and 315 resistance, a normal robot damage will deal then 305 damage, as for gamma fire, and using the same method I used in the quote above, it will deal 335 damage. Where is the difference between what I have said, and what you've said?

In matter fact, I understand now where you didn't get it, using the example above won't tell you how RNG affects gamma fire, because, RNG doesn't affect gamma fire if you are not using an example that compare between gamma fire and another robot damage, in other words, gamma bot in a battle. Using the same example that you've given. And considering that gamma fire deals 335-336 damage, and considering that your opponent is using a normal attack of X bot (any bot), and RNG picks 650 robot damage, and 315 resistance, then the normal attack will deal 335 damage, the same damage dealt by gamma fire. And this is how RNG affects gamma fire.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/2/2015 19:24:57 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 138
6/3/2015 3:15:26   
Satafou
Member

It isn't really a special, when the Gamma bot was released it's energy attack was never considered a special, not to the players or the devs it was just a different option of attack. It's so-called special now needs remakes if anyone is seriously to refer to it as a special as 5% dmg is nothing, a lucky RNG gives far more dmg alone.
Post #: 139
6/3/2015 8:42:19   
The berserker killer
Member

 
quote:

Assault Bot is not used that much because Nobody Uses Huge Debuffs in the game so this make the special not that Noticeable or not even used in battle


Once again, cant speak for everyone. I dont use the bot because the cleanse % isn't enough and should definitely affect things such as Blood Hawks special and Necrosis.

quote:

Legendary points are an invalid argument because that is only available to lvl 40s, only part of the players.


This^^^. Legendary ranks only affect a small portion of the population due to the time needed to attain them and how expensive they are.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 140
6/3/2015 8:54:00   
King Bling
Member

So basically you need a buff to gamma bot i.e increase its special to 110%, but then it will also mean

1.) Free plasma meteor every 3 turns
2.) Not any ordinary meteor but with an equal of 650 primary
3.) Free of cost while meteor costs 90 energy
4.) Too much, dats OP

< Message edited by King Bling -- 6/3/2015 13:00:06 >
Post #: 141
6/3/2015 11:02:50   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Haha @king bling thats honestly basically what it will be like. That's op as heck.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 142
6/3/2015 11:17:20   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

This^^^. Legendary ranks only affect a small portion of the population due to the time needed to attain them and how expensive they are.


Ranks are just a clear example, same thing can happen when level difference is big.

quote:

1.) Free plasma meteor every 3 turns
2.) not any ordinary meteor but with an equal of 650 primary
3.) too much, dats OP


1- it isn't free, it is a bot special, if you are using gamma fire, your opponent is using infernal overload.
2- Did you just compare plasma meteor, a primary core, to gamma fire?
3- check 1 and 2.
50+ damage won't make gamma fire OP, as currently it is moderate, buffing it will just make it balanced. I think this is logic.
unbearable > OP > balanced > underdog.
When you buff an item that was underdog, it will become balanced, and so on and so forth. I think this logic.
Plus, the fix you suggested, no one from the team has confirmed it, testing is the only procedure that is capable of deciding the appropriate fix.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/3/2015 11:22:44 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 143
6/3/2015 12:27:23   
The berserker killer
Member

 
quote:

1- it isn't free, it is a bot special, if you are using gamma fire, your opponent is using infernal overload.
2- Did you just compare plasma meteor, a primary core, to gamma fire?
3- check 1 and 2.


1) He is referring to the fact that it has no cost and once again, we can't speak for everyone since we aren't everyone. Not everyone uses Infernal Overload.

2) Raising the damage to 110% on Gamma Fire will basically be like a stronger and spammable version of meteor cores since the meteor cores also deal 110% damage.

AQ DF Epic  Post #: 144
6/3/2015 12:41:20   
Lord Machaar
Member

Are you kidding me, have you just compared gamma fire to a primary core? We were just talking about how wrong it is to compare damage bots to non-damage bots, this is a bot special for god sake, it is free of energy like any other bot special attack for god sake, anyways, I'm out, can't lower my standards even more, if testers have understood what me and other members were aiming for, that's great already. Good luck with your "let's try to disturb community" discussion.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/3/2015 12:44:40 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 145
6/3/2015 12:47:57   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 110% is similar to the primary core, I was just stating that it will be like a free version and, if anything, stronger and spammable.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 146
6/3/2015 12:56:21   
King Bling
Member

It can be compared simply because 650 primary damage is equal to 650 bot damage because both will do the same damage, your making me laugh
and when the bot will do extra 10% damage i.e 65 i.e 715 bot damage (Energy) so will the same thing from the plasma meteor do, i.e 10% extra damage
off of the 650 primary damage i.e 65 i.e 715 primary damage, so why cannot that be compared? plus the bot one is free of cost while this one is not
spammable plus needs energy so the 105% is total fine, making me laugh again.

quote:

50+ damage won't make gamma fire OP

Plus you say +50 damage doesnt matter? It matters, because +50 damage is like 12 legendary bot slots, again this is laughable, give my bot extra +50 damage
and my bot damage will be 712-752. You like that? Does that bot damage look "Balanced"?

< Message edited by King Bling -- 6/3/2015 13:39:08 >
Post #: 147
6/3/2015 13:26:56   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

It can be compared simply because 650 primary damage is equal to 650 bot damage because both will do the same damage, your making me laugh
and when the bot will do extra 10% damage i.e 65 i.e 715 bot damage (Energy) so will the same thing from the plasma meteor do, i.e 10% extra damage


Are you kidding me? Have you just multiplied 600 base damage twice with 110%?
Gamma fire will be Gamma fire punch damage x 110%, for example, when gamma punch deals 600 damage, gamma fire will then deal 650 damage. Where have you brought 715 damage from?

quote:

Plus you say +50 damage doesnt matter? It matters, because +50 damage is like 12 legendary bot slots, again this is laughable, give my bot extra +50 damage
and my bot damage will be 612-652. You like that? Does that bot damage look "Balanced"?


If anything you say here is imbalanced, it would be ranks, so you suggest devs to remove ranks completely? so therefore any fix will be equal at all levels, any buff/nerf to any item, means, this item will be equally nerfed/buffed at levels. You like this? You just confirmed a point, that you pretended you haven't understand when we were talking about ranks, there you go, you just explained it yourself, there is no problem about the fix, or how to fix, the problem is, the collateral damage of the fix will vary from level/rank to another.

The problem here is ranks, not the fix. And if anything should be balanced/removed, it should be ranks.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/3/2015 13:29:21 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 148
6/3/2015 13:42:36   
King Bling
Member

quote:

If you can't continue the discussion due to your incapability to defend your points of view, for one reason or another, well good luck with your real life, because life can be pretty cruel.


Then dont bring ranks in between, but ya they concern kinda so idk xD
I was talking about 650 bot damage which makes it 715 and your taking
about 600 primary damage that makes it 660.
Post #: 149
6/3/2015 14:21:18   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I still don't think ranks should be brought into the discussion for the simple fact that, once again, you guys are targeting a small % of the population who not only have the ranks to equip these stats but who have also spent the money to use them.

And everyone loves blowing ranks out of proportion so this topic will eventually, undoubtedly, change into a topic about ranks and how they should be removed.

quote:

The problem here is ranks, not the fix. And if anything should be balanced/removed, it should be ranks.


see?
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 150
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