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RE: Burst Damage

 
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6/22/2017 1:43:15   
BeautyJester
Member

Wait,

Effect: 4 hits of Variable% damage (100% + % of missing HP per hit), 400-800% total

I thought % of missing health is meant for the one u are attacking and not the current hp u have... or its just me interpret what u said the wrong way cause the way u say it meant like you get yourself to 1% hp for maximum damage of dragonheart at first turn.
Post #: 376
6/22/2017 2:33:39   
ArchNero
Member

Dragon heart does more damage the less health you have.
Post #: 377
6/24/2017 9:12:15   
dark garuda
Member

Yo, can we talk Guardian for a sec?

Now, it's one of my favourite classes, and its art and animations - fantastic. But, it's pretty inescapable that the class is in a pretty sad state, by my opinion. I always was confused as to why Guardian was a T2 class to begin with, given that it's a special offer tie-in, but with that (and the fact it takes longer to train than any class in the game discounting perhaps Master Soulweaver), it is a little embarrassing that it's one of the weakest even among the Tier 2 classes.

Guardian's defensive moveset, I would describe as pretty competent. Reliable 2 T class shield for 5 CD, a -50 blind which only has a turn or two of downtime, and best of all in my opinion being Vortex which generates a guaranteed free turn and 25% power boost excepting extremely accurate foes.

However, even with those quite nice tools it's ultimately outshined by Necromancer and Paladin in the tier which both have much more potent defensive steroids that don't all get blasted by high Bonus.

I've seen people say before that Guardian lacks identity somewhat, but with those defensive skills and a capable offence it could do well as a hybrid class - and there's the problem, its damage-dealing is just bad. Most of its kit is element-locked (and even worse, element-random on Guardian Rage), which while objectively a liability does stop the class from being homogeneous. It's not necessarily a problem, but its offensive skills are element-locked with no compensation basically - unimpressive raw damage %s and very high cooldowns on its 'power-play' abilities Guardian Dragon (300% Bacon, 14CD), Guardian Rage (280% random element, 10CD) and most of all Awethur's Power ((150+Roll of 100)% Weapon, 15 CD) which is just a gimmick. Also while not intended to be hard-hitting abilities, Mega Shock their Multi has a whopper 4CD which seems out-of-step with every other class, and Nightbane's Fury is an extremely poor ability due to doing less damage overall than Limkragg's Breath, with an element that almost no enemy in the game is weak to rendering the DoT always lacklustre. On the bright side, Keen Edge is useful as always (but most classes have an equivalent), and Limkragg's has a very useful DoT element in Fire.


TL;DR + Summary: I don't think Guardian's got a bad kit, the problem is you can generate free turns and extend battles relatively safely, but you can do very little with those extra turns as your damage per turn collapses after the first few until your skillset comes back online (which takes a long time). Additionally, since you can seldom hit the enemy at their elemental weakness (and sometimes you'll get unlucky and heal them with Rage!), it has an ambient deflating effect onto Guardian's damage %s when they were across the board not great to begin with even by T2 standards.

< Message edited by dark garuda -- 6/24/2017 9:25:03 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 378
6/24/2017 9:29:46   
ArchNero
Member

I've been revisiting some other classes lately, EPL in particular I've grown to like. Vine whip does good damage, you can heal health and mana, stun a monster potentially up to 5 turns, give enemies a nasty -nature debuff, potential to one shot an enemy, reflect 100% damage taken from an enemy, etc.

I came up with several ideas with EPL like using the hidebehind cape and bramble shield so you give yourself -all and the monster will be given more reflected damage. Stun an enemy and equip hidebehind and use it regen more mana and health from the health candy and mana candy.

< Message edited by ArchNero -- 6/24/2017 21:09:01 >
Post #: 379
6/24/2017 9:44:18   
Greyor_42
Member

@archnero

it also doesn't hurt that one of the EPL's skills has a 1% chance to insta-kill. can't remember which one though.......
DF  Post #: 380
6/24/2017 9:48:03   
ArchNero
Member

^
The enfeebling scythe is the skill from EPL that allows you to one shot/instantly kill an enemy with a 1% chance.
Post #: 381
6/24/2017 23:56:13   
Plendamonda2
Member

@Dark Garuda I agree with a lot of what you said. The more I try to use it the less I want to. Other classes are just more fun.

I think however that the best way to think of it is that it's a 'free' class. You buy Guardian for AQ.
You aren't paying for the class, it's just a bonus. Though I'm sure plenty of people have bought it just for the class in other games.
So perhaps they* intentionally made it weaker - or at kept it "low T2" anyway. It wasn't 'good' before the rework either.

I briefly mentioned in my last post, Guardian tries to do everything so it doesn't really do anything.
The elemental lock could actually be a cool niche actually, but like you said it doesn't seem to have proper compensation.
Or rather, a significant portion of the time, not being ele-locked is better than than the meager 20% compensation.
Extra noticeable on Guardian's Multi: 20% extra damage but the higher cooldown ruins it like you said.
Dealing 150% often won't kill each enemy meaning you take the extra 2/3 turns anyway.
But using Multi a second time will do at least 200% to each enemy (Pirate/Ninja deal 260% iirc). And they aren't element locked.
Most of the other classes have a nice theme, or multiple skills that can work together, some 'combos'; Guardian doesn't quite do that.
Pirate has all the bonus nerfs for dodging, Ninja has a bunch of poisons, Technomancer has stuns/loops, Ranger has focus and stuff.
Paladin and Necromancer are basically Tier 3, Shadow Hunter is highly unique with its combos.
There just isn't anything remarkable about Guardian, despite being pseudo-special-offer and a tad more difficult to train.

However, IMO it's currently one of the better looking classes in the game (I love the walking animation). Not that any of them really look bad anymore.
Plus, DragonFable isn't a very difficult game, a weaker class can still complete most everything, it just takes longer and more damage.
It's not a bad class, it just isn't a particularly good one. Which conflicts a bit with being the iconic/nostalgic Guardian.
Guardians aren't really better than average in any game though, so perhaps they aren't meant to be.

*-(I think Ash was primarily the person that reworked the classes?)
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 382
6/25/2017 3:13:52   
dark garuda
Member

@Plenda - In many ways, it's part of a difficulty in that in DF, it's pretty hard to say what's actually 'bad'. Now seeing what's 'good' is easy. The question's as simple as - without preparations (E.G Potion levels maxed, use of guests, a strong pet dragon, Unhallowed set or other time-consuming gears, strong trinkets etc.), can it finish everything. Or failing that, can it finish almost everything but do what it can do quickly.

That gets ticked for, I believe, everything in T3. Going into T2, we have more of a problem - again, it's an issue as to whether they're actually bad, or just being made to look bad - because Paladin, Necromancer and Ranger are all extremely competitive classes that take the trash out with almost all of the game's stories, not even breaking a sweat. Now yeah, they do have a limiting factor in that the former two are pretty slow about it, and the latter needs a special snowflake statbuild to hit its potential. Even so, their capabilities are miles above the rest of the tier, whom look like they're scraping the bottom of the barrel by comparison. Even within that motley crew though, Guardian looks bad. Most of the classes in Mid-Low T2 are very worthwhile cracking out in certain situations; like Technomancer against 3x mob spam quests and low immobility resistance, low bonus bosses, they just underperform in a lot of other situations.

Guardian underperforms across the board, though. It does have a pretty decent proto-strategy, which usually goes something like Spiral Carve -> Nightbane's Fury -> Limkragg's Breath -> Vortex -> Ray of Light -> Keen Edge -> Guardian Rage -> Guardian Dragon -> Awethur's Power. Basically, you keep them pretty controlled while you unload your entire kit for some OK damage. After that though, you're basically drumming your fingers on the desk top while your incredibly long CD kit comes back up. And even on long-battle focused classes like Ninja for example, they still have a very comparable combo to Guardian's 'short battle' combo (Spiral Carve -> Guardian Rage -> Keen Edge -> Guardian Dragon if you can, although usually you cut at least Dragon to conserve MP) in Furious Assault -> Massive Strike -> Rapid Attack -> Vanish -> Shadow Strike. Where you'd think Guardian could shine, it still falls down.

It's not like you can't make the class work, oh no, that's not true at all. Like all of the control-based classes which turn a lot of turns into stalemates, it gets a big leg-up from having a strong pet and duoing with a strong guest such as Mritha, Aegis or Serenity Okami. And it has some of the game's best synergy with Not-So-Tiny-Bubbles, to the point that having it absolutely cripples any enemy that doesn't have Bonus steroids. However, all of these are further time investments into a class which needs an unusually large time investment to unlock to begin with, and after them you're still left with a class that's ultimately barely mediocre - even when it comes to playing super-defensive and fishing for turns, it suffers due to high MP costs! While it's equal to in short battles and worse in long ones than many classes in the tier: to be clear I don't think it's the absolute worst class in T2 (that dubious honour would have to go to Pirate IMO), but it's in a depressing spot where there's no real reason to use it, ever, except for its good looks. In which case, they feel like they're a bit wasted on the kit.


Let's be real, few buy the calendar for the actual calendar (even though it does look real good - except for this year's, sorry guys), however I'm not gonna cry that Guardian should be a T3 class. Bonuses have tended to be in recent years, but since my old Guardianship was one of the best fourteen quid I've ever spent (or rather got my Dad to, hey, I was 9-odd!), I definitely ain't coming here feeling like I've been ripped-off in terms of money. It's actually moreso that after 10 hated Ahzite Ore and, even worse, 10 completions of Fires Over Oaklore! - I just kinda wish the class had at least a few occasions where you can put it on and feel GOOD about using it for the fight, instead of today's janky usual which is 'Man this armour looks awesome, too bad I accidentally hit myself on the kneecaps with a cricket bat when I equipped it'.

< Message edited by dark garuda -- 6/25/2017 3:21:06 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 383
6/25/2017 10:02:35   
DarkLore
Member

What would you say is a good attack pattern to use with ACC? (single target and multiple targets) I need to stop cheesing my way through everything with DMK v1. It does get dull I'll admit. I'd like to actually challenge myself more.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 384
6/25/2017 19:27:53   
cross my heart
Member

What happened to the new sounds that dragonlord had added to it? Haven't used the new version of the class in a while but I do remember new sounds were added to it.
Post #: 385
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