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=ED= January 14th, 2016 - Central Station War!

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1/15/2016 7:03:20   
  Battle Elf
has ten 1v1 wins
quote:



January 14th, 2016
Central Station War!

At long last, next week, the highly anticipated Central Station War goes LIVE! Join the Legion or Exile forces to gain or maintain control of Central Station to win incredible prizes and secure control through the next war cycle.

Central Station has been Delta V's starting zone since Alpha, and it has been oddly calm throughout the War. Legion and Exile forces have coexisted here for many years, but that calm is finally coming to an end. This time, rather than the objective being a superweapon, it's something far more powerful: the Communications Array. This array controls the messages for all newcomes to Delta V returning from the Void or recouperating after running dangerous missions. Those who control the array will control the hearts and minds of Delta V's most vulnerable citizens!

The defenders will commandeer the Communications Array in the middle of the station and seek to destroy Propaganda Towers broadcasting unsanctioned materials, while the attackers will attempt to subvert the alignment propaganda being spewed towards newcomers with some of their own.

This war will be the final event in the current war cycle. What will happen after the Central Station War ends? The current cycle will end, but then the next cycle will start (after a brief cooldown period) and will loop back to the Dread Plains, where the former winners of that region will have to defend their region against being lost to the opposition! The next cycle will feature new prizes and incorporate all the War balance changes we added throughout the first cycle.
Are you ready...for WAR? WAR ON!

Tags: Nightwraith


< Message edited by Therril Oreb -- 1/23/2016 5:36:09 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
1/15/2016 8:36:11   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 Great, I need to clear the 100 or so War Commander cores I have stacked in my inventory
Post #: 2
1/15/2016 10:29:42   
Lord Machaar
Member

So you are here basically saying: "y'all waited for almost a year for a war, that is just like the one tha was before it, so you waited all this time for nothing".
There is no need really in releasing this war for many reasons:
- This: https://twitter.com/misscyden_ed/status/686395851523018752 Botting ofcourse.
- Difference in amount of players.
- Heavy spenders on one side, and due to the fact that war can be easily won by spending without doing battles which is absurd.

Sure a new cycle of wars is coming, but how do we know it is going to solve these problems? The central station war is a great occasion for devs to test out the changes that are planned for the next cycle, because who knows that the new system will work. In fact since when devs were able to solve such big problems in one take? Add the fact that there are no testers currently as Mecha Mario is currently in a life time vacation, and the fact that devs are busy working on biobeasts meaning they really have no idea what the game is all about now. Therefore I doubt the next cycle of wars will be any better, as the devs missed any chance to solve it by experimenting on central sation war.

Because seriously, just give exiles the win already, no need to release this war with:
1- no changes. 0 absolute intent to change.
2- no actual testing, there is really nothing to lose as the result is already known, just experiment on this war, which is a thing you can't replicate in testing.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/15/2016 10:32:09 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 3
1/15/2016 15:40:56   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I'm sorry, but the devs said that this war was taking so long because they had to fix bugs and implement new features with this war. But the design notes implies that the war system is still going to be the same. Can someone explain please? Maybe I'm reading it wrong but in the past 9/10 months you couldnt have just continued the war cycle anyway?
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 4
1/15/2016 16:23:17   
Therril Oreb
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 "He who does not fight, already lost the fight"
Although it has been a while since a war happened and certain things have changed, the opinion you just gave has nothing based upon.
The developers still work on ED, just not full time due to BioBeasts development. And I have no idea where Mecha Mario's life time vacation came from for he is still with us.

It is understandable that the botting is aggravating, but this is still being worked on.
So there is no reason to be upset and be negative when the war has not even been fought.

@berserker:
quote:

Original: Charfade

Its war 2.0 system and its taken so long because completing the code for the last region in the loop is tricky
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 5
1/15/2016 16:24:51   
Xendran
Member

Pay2win ruins wars before they begin, regardless if botting is dealt with and whether or not new features are added. Varium bombs are honestly some of the most egregious monetization i've seen in this game, and honestly from AE as a whole. It's whaling to the maximum possible degree, and seriously unethical.
In fact, you probably want to consider removing it for this war. Like, have you thought through the effect this has on new players? It massively discourages them from participating in wars, makes the game seem like it has an even bigger pay wall, and highlights the pay2win aspect which is just becoming more and more hated by players as time goes on (as a general thing, not ED specifically).

Me and almost every single friend I have won't even consider playing game if it has pay2win. Based on feedback from many many games over what has now been many years, we aren't the only ones.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/15/2016 18:06:16 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 6
1/15/2016 17:16:15   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Varium bombs should definitely be removed and/or replaced with credit versions for all players. Either that or at least make a permanent version of the war commanders for sale.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 7
1/15/2016 17:44:57   
Lord Machaar
Member

"He who does not fight, already lost the fight".
That's a very encouraging saying, used in the very wrong place.
I want to highlight the word Fight.
Can you tell me Mr. Therril, where you can see the word fight in this story:
"Log in to the game, go to the ammo depot, buy super bombs for x amount varium, jump to the target, explode them, log out. Gg your alignment has won the war".
This saying is for those who will fight fairly, not those who will fight with their bare hands while other side with nuclear weapons.
With the fact that the top 10 gifters are exile, also the 6 who where removed are also exile, I know each of one of them and to which exile faction they belong, I'm talking from statistics, from knowledge, from playing the game and playing the same system of wars for endless amount of times. I know for sure what is going to happen.
This is without even mentioning botting, which some say legion players can bot, there is the difference in amount of players, therefore higher amount of botters in exile, by 3 or 4 times.
The difference in amount if players in each alignement is itself a problem thanks to this broken recycled war system.
Next joke please.
You clearly have never played this war, therefore I won't blame you on giving this shallow opinion of yours on the war. I hope at least you are still learning about the game, and learn that it's not a game with flying unicorns farting rainbows and butterflies everywhere.

This is not the first time we talked about this, I personally gave tons suggestions but well.
The war shouldn't be straight forwared pay to win, nor count on how many players in each alignment.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/15/2016 18:13:11 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 8
1/15/2016 20:27:32   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 The P2W war system is definitely a discussion I have been a part of in the past and will continue to take part in in the future until the discussion no longer needs to be had. If you have a system in which it is exponentially easier to succeed by spending real world money instead of doing the grind you have a pay-2-win system.

Wars are Pay-2-Win due to the low drop rate of varium exclusive bombs and the impossibility to get varium exclusive bombs if you buy the war core. The simple act of spending money to buy varium bombs without participating in PvP is undermining the core mechanic of the game and that is telling people you don't have faith in your own core mechanic.

I personally would not mind the war being pushed back a week if it meant the removal of the ability to buy Varium bombs by-passing PvP drops and adding in a super bomb drop rate to the war core. Varium bombs would still be a very powerful tool to those who are used to buying them in bulk but now everyone has to play the game if they wish to flex their wallets.

Pardon the soap box but it has been something I have tried to champion for about four years now

< Message edited by One Winged Angel1357 -- 1/15/2016 20:28:26 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 9
1/15/2016 21:44:04   
Variation
Member
 

 @One Winged Angel1357: Thank you for your honesty. I was gonna write a huge document expressing the traits I would want the successor to War 2.0 to have. I was gonna... The reason why I never completed the document I had on my mind for a possible War 3.0 is because I feel it would have been a huge waste of time. I feel like my ideas for War 3.0 would've been thrown into the vault of ideas that never got the attention they deserved. Anyways, since this is a thread for the final war of the current War 2.0 system and a major point of discussion I see so far is a better warring experience, I will add to the discussion.

One detriment you brought up with the current system is its core foundation is pay-to-win. The fact one can literally not partake in any of the game elements other than using varium and yet gain enormous damage points is a huge problem. A problem that can not only destroy pure effort, but destroy a legion of pure effort. Questions for the developers in the pay-to-win regard become,
•Should super war bombs only be sold for varium?
•Should super war bombs be sold at all?

Another massive problem I've seen throughout the wars is requiring war items to gain influence. That feature alone statistically devalues hard work as a war item isn't dropped after each victory. I feel that when wars are active fighting at enemy objectives should at least give 5 influence for solo battles, 15 influence for team battles, and 15 influence for juggernaut battles. I see rewarding influence after each battle victory a must, but the victories should also do damage to the objectives like the current war items do. It's pretty ridiculous that War 2.0 in general is so currency based, whether it be the utilization of super war items or war commanders. Super war items and war commanders have one thing in common. They provide decent security for gaining influence. Since EpicDuel is in fact a PvP game I feel PvP victories should provide the ultimate security for gaining influence. Gaining guaranteed influence after each battle victory provides that security and it also rewards hard work.

Some other cool ideas that are worth noting are adding a chance to fight against the objectives after each victory(think of the Delta Vault) and daily war missions.

Revamping War 2.0 is a huge topic in both its controversial and essential aspects. Hopefully the most problematic things with War 2.0 are taken care of because those problems seems to be really harming the game.

< Message edited by Variation -- 1/15/2016 22:50:06 >
Post #: 10
1/15/2016 21:53:59   
Daph Duck
Member

Yes another recycled rigged war to shut the players up now that gifting is over to make more money for bio beasts good job thx.!!!!! Much apreciated.

< Message edited by Daph Duck -- 1/15/2016 21:57:57 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 11
1/15/2016 22:00:56   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 War 2.0 will potentially provide one of the most beneficial things to the war system out of every war. The ability for wars to automatically begin with minimal developer intervention as they have the ability to change the schedule to better work around other events.

That framework would be invaluable for changes to the war system in whatever form it ends up in and more over that system should be able to be carried over to future games after it is translated from AS3.0 to C++.... I think it is C++ but I always have to ask Korin what language it is because there are too many forms of C
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 12
1/15/2016 23:06:24   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 wars just don't feel engaging at all.

If we could get some really fun, innovating wars like the first infernal war with the delta vault then that would be amazing. That war was unbelievably fun and I was actually engrossed in the story for once because of it. Just don't bother wasting time releasing boring wars that barely function as actual alignment battles so that time can be better spent doing something more constructive in the game.
Epic  Post #: 13
1/16/2016 5:38:25   
Xendran
Member

Varium bombs existing at all breaks the war.
There is no compromise or middle ground on this issue. Buying ANY advantage over another player is pay2win, regardless of how big of an advantage it is.

Even if you try to "balance out" the varium bombers vs free players, there is never a situation where a varium player with infinite money will lose to a free player with infinite time. Pay2win. Making it less effective just is a bigger cash grab because now its PayEvenMOREMoney2win. This is why it needs to be flat out removed.
You need to sell cosmetics and convenience. Advantages over other players is a big contributor as to why you have a dead game (and don't give me the "ED is not dead" spiel, we're being real with each other here and trying to prevent the next inevitable iteration of ED from falling for the same traps that the original ED has.)

There are very few situations where this can actually be acceptable, and one of the only ones is inherent to the genre: Card games. The counterbalance thuogh is that you cap out at a maximum power that is equal to the maximum power of everyone else, and there's no other realistic way to do card games which is why they get a pass.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/16/2016 5:50:28 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 14
1/16/2016 10:52:06   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 To bring up a much more relevant example of pay-2-win existing in an acceptable form known as pay-2-skip we should take a look at warframe.

In Warframe you can buy fusion cores,which are used to upgrade your gear and thus make you stronger, but the pricing compared to the in-game drop rate is so outrageous that you would only ever buy them as a last resort. That is a very apt step-up we should be trying to emulate.

Instead of having the bought bombs be priority number one for the war they should become a last resort. Ways to do that would be removing the buy shops for bombs or if that is not going to happen constrain players buying bombs to a max of ten in their inventory and jack the price up to dissuade people from buying them. After you have adjusted it so that both parties have the same constraints on them you need to make PvP the core mechanic of wars instead of the gimmick. Every battle should count towards the war not just the ones where bombs drop even if it is something like 1% of the damage you deal in the fight goes towards damaging a random objective to help your side while bombs stay a form of greater concentrated damage.

I haven't had enough time to sit down and fully flesh out the idea but there are ways to adjust the system so that it is no longer P2W without having to remove varium bombs
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 15
1/16/2016 12:12:53   
Lord Machaar
Member

^ If there is anything I would like to add to your suggestion, it would be about the difference in number of players in each alignment and balance.
Making the war PVP-dependent and not money-dependent is a great thing, although putting all of the weight on a broken PVP is a bad thing, balance currently is not in its best state, nor in it worst, it is at least better than it was in this time last year when strenght BMs were ruling the game, 1 build technically, now we have at least 10 - 15 playable variety of builds, a 5 focus build playable for all classes, + support/str/dex playable in some and unplayable which is perfectly fine. But this doesn't mean PVP couldn't get any patches to become better and hold off better so it could contribute to the war in a positive way, I could name many things, like a merc tweak, robots tweaks, jugg fix, overlapping skills, and the list goes on.

As for the difference in number of players in each alignment, this wasn't a problem in the past as legion players only faced exile players in PVP, but due to the player base dropping out, this is no longer doable especially in 2vs2.
So basing the war on personal influence gained through PVP could harm the war, as it would be absurd if an exile player faces another exile player in 1vs1, one of them wins and the influence gets counted into the war. That would be illogical, therefore I suggest that, if ofcourse there aren't any flash limitations, to count influence won only in battles between legion and exile players, which means if we have 10 battles, 5 of them were between exile and legion players, 4 of them between exile players, and 1 one of them between legion players, usually all 10 battles should be counted in the war but that wouldn't be fair, so in fact only 5 battles between both alignments should count, while influence gained through other battles should count toward personal influence only and not toward war influence.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/16/2016 12:18:04 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 16
1/16/2016 16:22:00   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 To be honest, devs, I would really like for you guys to consider making the dailys for each alignment different. What I mean by this is that WD, 1v1, 2v2 and Jugg championships/dailys wont be awarded to just the faction with the most wins or influence that day. Instead it would be awarded to both the top legion and exile factions of that day .

Why you ask? Well players mainly like 1 thing more than anything and that 1 thing is called "winning". A player would choose to win over any thing else which is why so many players want to become exile. We have the heavy spenders and, in war, only 1 side can be rewarded with the war prize. So follow a long with me for 1 minute.

By making those rewards go to the top legion and exile factions, instead of just 1, there are 2 chances to win the daily or WD: Legion and Exile. In its current state exile top wins are an average of 1400 1v1s and 380 2v2s (jug is a different story since theres not really a challenge there).

But for Legion? The highest legion fac wins you're going to see, for now at least until this idea is implemented, is an average of only 300 1v1 wins, about 100 2v2s and, once again, jug is a different story.

So what'll happen then? Well players love winning. If it is that easy for any legion faction to win 1v1 or 2v2, plenty of players would switch in no time to "abuse" this feature.

Almost done. So Players switch over, create a legion faction, get all happy with winning daily legion championships back to back and before you know it more and more players switch over. This feature will, undoubtedly balance out the sides.

Edit: This seems like the best option in my opinion both for now and long term

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 1/16/2016 16:41:17 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 17
1/17/2016 11:58:19   
dfo99
Member
 

 i am f2p but the p2w in the war do not seems a problem for me in the ED case, those guys usually inflict 200-300k of dmg during all the war but it is usually a small damage in the total of objetives health, the big problem was the 2-5k appearing on the dmg bars each 2 min (without includes the bombs which you could see being used), the staffs said it was the server updating the dmgs, but it was clearly devs manipulation due the small amount of players in the server and the really weirdly faster runing of the war. the lack of wars stats was is really annoying and makes easy maintain distortions.
Post #: 18
1/17/2016 12:56:25   
Therril Oreb
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 I can safely say that the developers are not manipulating the war at all. There was one occasion where the goal numbers were reduced, but the actual amount if wins both sides achieved were never adjusted and never will.
The team wants the fair to proceed in a fair manner just like the players do.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 19
1/17/2016 15:34:59   
dfo99
Member
 

 oreb

you position is a insult to the players intelligence, in the west naval yard war happens the most noticeable extremely distortion, the exile side lose to the legion with a small diference of 2000 of health (i was online and at the exactly time and place) the exile side as the legion side reach a bit more than 46.000.000 dmg but the player with less influence on exile side (chewingGuns) get 16.351. it means that if the war where not manipulated, below his score have a minimal of around 2700 players (excluding 113 due the influence from the top 20 players) with 16.350 of influence or even more players with less influence like 4500 players with an avg of 10.000 influence each. you don't need to be a mathematician or a smart person to see that this is obviously not logical due the small ED players base and there was influence dmg being manually or automatically added by the devs in the damages counters bars.
Post #: 20
1/17/2016 16:24:36   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Instead of listening to Therril why don't we try me saying it instead of Therril asking me about it.

The developers are not wasting time playing with war scores. The jumps in scores are due to your client pinging the server for an update which happens at a regular interval so you aren't constantly what amounts to a download of the database. Last but not least the scoreboard is limited to ten per side to limit how much of the database you are downloading in that ping.

While you can believe whatever you want it is a waste of time for the developers to just be making up numbers in the database especially when editing database values can go very wrong very easily
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 21
1/17/2016 17:46:47   
dfo99
Member
 

 it don't explain my 46m/16k = 2,8k players argument.
Post #: 22
1/17/2016 17:48:36   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Nothing short of publishing the database will answer that question and that isn't something I see happening
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 23
1/17/2016 17:56:59   
dfo99
Member
 

 of course it will not happens, but if the a dev come here and say that really manipulate the war adding dmg in the scores objetive for balance of whatever purposes and say sorry for that, instead made me looks like a stupid non sense conspirationist, it would be enough for me.
Post #: 24
1/20/2016 7:29:28   
SouL Prisoner
Member

@OWA

Hey..... I was just wondering how come there's no Exp rewarding mission/s?? It would really help to level up those legendary ranks. Man... phew....

Hope you consider this for the upcoming missions??

< Message edited by SouL Prisoner -- 1/21/2016 5:14:14 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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