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RE: =AQW= New Server changes - More Feedback Needed

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5/2/2017 3:07:02   
Rancore AQW

AC tags on good amount of rep farmable classes would be nice.I mean,we aren't getting free inv space anytime soon,but at least we will save space for now.
Post #: 51
5/2/2017 3:09:02   

AQW  Post #: 52
5/2/2017 3:55:55   

Whatever happened to the other enhancements? Like that Armsmen enhancement or something.
I rather like having multiple sets of enhancements. It's like part of preparing for an adventure.
More kinds of enhancements would lead to varied class "builds" (Not in the same way as having different skills but with different stats.)

I know this isn't a suggestion thread but what if we can change classes while battling. But that would present a lot of balancing problems.

< Message edited by LouisCyphere -- 5/2/2017 3:57:11 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 53
5/2/2017 4:37:36   

bring back esc key.
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 54
5/2/2017 5:38:10   

What I would like to see for gameplay feedback is more chances to make us more powerful in gerenal. You see, in canon we have all these cool powers, but we can't USE them. granted we'd be Op as all hell if we could, But having said that, I think gameplay applications of us getting more power can beapplied. More stats, special powers that can be used in game, give us as many chances to empower oursleves in general.
DF  Post #: 55
5/2/2017 8:27:30   

I played AQW back when I was 11 and stopped around 2011 or 12 and recently came back in April after mass dropping games like Warframe and GW2. I've recently made it way past where I originally stopped with a new account and remembered why I loved this game back when I was a kid.

In games I love freedom of any type may it be the ability to customize your character or how do I want to play the game. A good example of both of these would be Dragon's Dogma, not only does it offer great customization in terms of appearance but each class is distinct and has various skills and abilities that allow one to mix and match and encourages trying out different classes for skills to bring in to another class that would benefit from it.

I'm not saying AQWorlds SHOULD be like DD but there are many things it could learn from it not just in DD but in many other games in general that would greatly increase how enjoyable AQW is.

In terms of farming I don't dislike farming, in fact many of my friends think of me as a hardcore farmer/grinder when it comes to it. Personally when I farm I do it for two reasons one would be it looks nice the other it will help me become stronger in game (but if the things is useful but ugly as in don't expect me to touch it unless I can hide the ugly). However farming for Rep is so painful it makes me want to go in a corner and cry most of the time. I'm almost done with Arcanegrove for (E.) Shaman and let me tell you nothing takes away the fun than the climb from Rank 7 -10 as that is where the midway point is.

However the fact that you're about 2 - 3 Ranks away from complete gives one the illusion they're nearing completion only to be met a single Rank up after 3 or more hours of nothing. This is most prominent in those last few Ranks because Ranks 1 - 6 have the nice little "Congrats you're now at Rank X of A" which gives a sense of progression. It also makes little sense in the game as I'm pretty sure I don't need to do small time jobs just to gain their trust after saving them from "insert Chaos Lord here".

Make it so that after the main storyline quests It get left at around Rank 7 or 8, or have a different method of farming rep all together like adding a mini-war system that awards rep instead of progress? Or everyday there is a specific type of monster the region wants killed and each time you kill it you gain a rep alongside your CP, EXP and Gold? Just a thought. Other wise Merge shops and other long quests are pretty fine in my book as it gives you the feeling of for every item you have you get closer and closer to your goal, it's mostly Rep where I have beef with.

Another thing I like to see focused on is the story. I know it means little in actual gameplay but it really gives a vibe when you're doing something because you feel a connection to a NPC or the end result of all of this is something you really want to happen instead of because the game told you to. The reason I considered playing AQW again was because of a slight detour going to the Dragonfable TvTroupes page and man was there stuff that my 11 old self really glossed over (What do you mean Robina being Victoria was obvious?!).

This also can go and relate back to quests as quests is equivalent to the story progression through the game. For example I felt everything with Escherion to be very nice, you get to see the Lord's power through the appearance of the map and everything felt nicely paced with some nice AE brand humor at the end (though I did think the ruins was kinda boring). Vath however felt like a slog, too many events and quests I felt like were just there to pad everything out and not enough of Vath himself to make me care. Did we really need so many quests to get into Dwarfhold? Do we really need the key to break just for more quests?. While Discordia had far too little quests to make me care about what's going on, each one felt way too disconnected and Kimberly was introduce so far in the end otherwise the twist would've really have got me.

Though this has little to do with the Server Rewrite in general the overall content of the quest is also something to take note of. I get it Kitsune is stirring up the Yokai, go and subdue them but then suddenly we go to the Yokai River and it's suddenly "I'm hungry make me sushi?" Like what? Good examples of the story/quests done right were Escherion, Ledgermayne, The Chaos Twins all of the Throne of Darkness (at least most anyway) and Sleuthhound Inn (personal fav). Though I haven't done all of the 13 Lords of Chaos quests to comment on anything else, on top of what I have said previously I would like more of the NPC's to get more spotlight most of the time I feel like it's Artix, Gravelyn, Dage and Nulgath taking front and center really with the two former having any meaningful character development. Otherwise if it's anyone else it feels like someone else could've taken the roll and still achieve similar effect.

I would like to personally request the ability to "overlay" weapon appearances over others. For example if I want the benefits of the BLoD but would like Avatar of Death Scythe as my weapon cause looks I can make it so that I get the ability to turn undead into butter but also have my cool glowy scythe with me. I think DF had this ability I "think" not sure been too long...but it would be nice just so that I don't need to sacrifice performance of fashion...except inventory space but it is a small price to pay for the sake of looking cool.

Anything else I would like to say about Classes and Enhancements has been said before but better and due to my limited knowledge on the subject (I haven't dabbled in Luck...gonna try that out) I think it is best for me to pass on this one.
Post #: 56
5/2/2017 9:19:26   

Oh yeah, another thing that people love in AQW is customization. Gameplay and damage come from class and enhancements, but aesthetics are fun in AQW.
In PVP, you have two players. One is level 65 and uses Default Sword, Peasant Rags armor, Void Highlord class, and he's chosen to hide Helm and Cape. The other player is level 65 and uses the Sword of the Supreme Lord of the Abyss (made up), Armor of Thousand Lost Souls (made up), ArchPaladin class, Enchanted Helm of the Void Devourer (made up), and Cloak of the Mischief Wizard (made up). But, still, the player with Void Highlord class will probably win. Unlike other MMORPGs, in AQW you're not forced to farm for any set. You just use whatever you like.
AQW  Post #: 57
5/2/2017 11:04:32   


Thanks! I really like the idea of micromanaging my stats and wipe out the current 'stats configuration based on enhancements', enhancements now should be used to things like Awe Enhancements and another similar things. I've done a mock-up of how I imagine this new system.


Also, would be good if we could save our "configuration" to each class we have on the inventory whenever we want or on a room specialized for this (like the armor customization's room on Yulgar's). Points should be earned as your level increases and maybe you could earn more points from another ways, like special weapons/items like... The BLoD for example (it having some extra points attached to it)
Post #: 58
5/2/2017 13:41:50   
Meloette Wells

Just saw your mock-up, I think it's pretty interesting. Excuse me as I make an additional suggestion on top of that.

Preset stat builds
Players here and there often express the wish to have the ability to have an outfit (armor, helm, & etc.) to be toggle-able. I mean that they want a way to quickly change between their various outfits without having to dig through their banks/inventories/etc.

If AQW decides to go into stat build route, then it'll need to also have a preset option for the various builds a class can need. For example, say a player want to play with the warrior, rogue, and healer classes. Each class needs its own spread for the individual stats, so it may become a pain for said player to constantly switch between their builds for each class. It would be a pain If the player didn't have an option/preset/whatever-you-want-to-call-it to quickly switch between builds.

P.S. if you do plan to implement the preset idea, for stats and/or outfits, you gonna want to include an option to name the preset. Cause people might not remember what that preset was suppose to be used for if they stopped playing for a while.

edit1: Then, I just read that you just said the same thing. . . Oh well, "read the thread thoroughly before posting" and whatnot.

< Message edited by Meloette Wells -- 5/2/2017 13:42:42 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 59
5/2/2017 14:54:12   
Battleon Sorceress

Hi guys -- we have been reading this thread and discussing ways to implement these.

What I'd like to do while that's being looked at, though, is see if we can make some changes to Luck on the new server that will help you feel more like you're on the current server.

Yorumi is making it so that luck enhancements build for all classes like they do for luck classes. This is the easiest change to undo if we need to, but it will give us some really good information about where our class numbers are at.

Please hop on tonight and tomorrow when you can and let us know how that feels.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 60
5/2/2017 15:13:42   

Alright, I did some tests.

Undead Bruiser vs. Paladin and BLoD/VLoD on old servers = 10,000+ crit with skill 4.
Undead Bruiser vs. Paladin and BLoD/VLoD on new servers = 3,500+ crit with skill 4.

Wolfwing vs. StoneCrusher and Chaorrupter Unlocked on old servers = 12,000+ crit with skill 5 after maxed stacks from first skill.
Wolfwing vs. StoneCrusher and Chaorrupter Unlocked on new servers = 900 to 1600+ crit with skill 5 after maxed stacks from first skill.

Full Luck (Class, Helm, Weapon and Cape), Level 65 version, used in these testings.
Post #: 61
5/2/2017 15:23:29   
Aura Knight

Recorded the damage I did on legion doomknight and compared it to the numbers I got when using it on a non-test server. Here's what I got.

Regular Servers

Legion Doomknight Full Luck Level 64 Enhancement w/ Static Weapon

Base Damage on each skill

Auto Attack: 253 non-crit 828 crit
Touch of Doom: 317 non-crit 1035 crit
Soul Siphon: 254 non-crit 834 crit
Legion Dark Blast: 636 non-crit 2083 crit
Imminent Doom: 558 non-crit 1823 crit DoT 98

15 stacks on Touch of Doom Skill

Auto Attack: 647 non-crit 2177 crit
Touch of Doom: 810 non-crit 2646 crit
Soul Siphon: 650 non-crit 2132 crit
Legion Dark Blast: 1626 non-crit 5324 crit
Imminent Doom: 1426 non-crit 4659 crit 431 DoT

Test Server Zorbak: Legion Doomknight Level 64 Full Luck Enhancement w/ Static Weapon

Base Damages

Auto Attack: 180 non-crit 287 crit
Touch of Doom: 225 non-crit 359 crit
Soul Siphon: 144 non-crit 230 crit
Legion Dark Blast: 360 non-crit 575 crit
Imminent Doom: 396 non-crit 633 crit 75 DoT

15 Stacks of Touch of Doom Skill

Auto Attack: 456 non-crit 728 crit
Touch of Doom: 570 non-crit 910 crit
Soul Siphon: 365 non-crit 583 crit
Legion Dark Blast: 913non-crit 1459 crit
Imminent Doom: 1004 non-crit 1606 crit 334 DoT

Started healing monster with each hit after a while. And monster was doing very low damage to me. This was ektorax. I'll report this if it's not supposed to happen.

AQ DF AQW  Post #: 62
5/2/2017 15:26:03   
Battleon Sorceress

Aura Knight: this is an AMAZING post! Thanks for all that detail.
You, too, chronoeye. These are exactly what we need.

< Message edited by Alina -- 5/2/2017 15:32:52 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 63
5/2/2017 15:31:23   
Aura Knight

Happy to help. One thing I wish were different with the test server is the stat screen for classes. I don't understand what any of the numbers mean. It's easier to know what everything means on regular servers. There, I can know what my DPS is, my damage range, passives, and other useful things. The c function on the test server gives me a bunch of numbers that I cannot make sense of.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 64
5/2/2017 15:31:59   

You're the most welcome, Alina. We have faith in you, even if some of us sometime thinks otherwise.
Post #: 65
5/2/2017 15:33:10   
Battleon Sorceress

After seeing those numbers, we got this response: "Dear god, the math has been busted on old servers all along!" This explains why, when the calculations were re-done for the NEW server, they were drastically, vastly different.

But what is great is NOW we know what we need to get back to, to help the game feel like it does on the current servers.


< Message edited by Alina -- 5/2/2017 15:34:26 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 66
5/2/2017 15:33:26   
Aura Knight

And now I'm healing monsters with every attack. Guess it's a class bug, but I reported it as a gameplay issue. Likely caused by legion doomknight somehow.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 67
5/2/2017 15:38:09   
The ErosionSeeker

Yeah, that's a bug associated with any class that has a buffs or debuffs.

Try again with something that won't accidentally increase their damage resist, because even though those numbers are good for convincing people that things are wrong, using VHL and giving everybody infinite dodge doesn't actually help very much.
DF AQW  Post #: 68
5/2/2017 15:39:17   

@ChronoEye and @Alina I have faith(/hope) AQW will survive for 100 more years, I would like to still be playing AQW in the year 2117, maybe even in the year 3017. I am an eternal being after all. :)

< Message edited by ghoal -- 5/2/2017 15:40:34 >
AQW  Post #: 69
5/2/2017 15:46:03   
Battleon Sorceress

Yorumi dug back into his code cave with "Give me a sec, I have to look at some stuff." Then popped back out and asked for the Luck shop ID. He's been silent since.

I am calling that progress!
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 70
5/2/2017 15:55:24   

I think I found the problem with damage.

I ran some tests with Void Highlord, here are my findings.

Void Highlord vs Red Dragon

All tests were done without using damage boosts
Unarmed was used.

Full Luck (Artix):

1. 13.32

2. 11.07

3. 11.23

4. 15.04

5. 12.73

Full Luck (Testing Server):

1. 22.53

2. 23.06

3. 24.10

4. 23.46

5. 22.98

So the times were still significantly lower on the testing server than they were on Artix, so I decided to look a bit deeper into what might be causing this.

I started by taking a picture of the stats page on both servers and this was the stat comparison. http://i.imgur.com/YzhwCts.png

The first things I noticed were the Attack Power and Crit Mod stats. My Attack Power is about 20% less on the testing server than it is on the regular servers, and the crit modifier is 1.72X more damage on critical hit, while it is 3.35X more damage on critical hit. Proof on these multipliers below.

Void Highlord Damage Tests

Unarmed was still used.
No damage boosts were used.

Auto Attack damage on Artix (non-crit): 298
Auto Attack damage on Artix (crit): 998

998/298=3.35 (rounded up)

Auto Attack damage on Safiria (non-crit): 200
Auto Attack damage on Safiria (crit): 344


Unshackled damage on Artix: 679
Unshackled damage on Safiria: 233

Note: Every class seems to have slightly different crit modifiers, Chronomancer's is 3.31X more damage for example.

The base stats seem relatively unchanged, but my DoT did almost 3x as much damage to the Red Dragon as it did on the regular servers.

Crit Chance seems the same.

My HP was also significantly lower on the testing server. I had 2524 HP on the testing server but I had 3015 HP on Artix, I'm not sure if this has to do with the Endurance stat being calculated different on there, or if it's something with Void Highlord's rank 10 passive (my guess is the former).

Possible Solution?

I am almost positive that if the Attack Power and Crit Mod stats on the testing server were changed to be the same as on the regular servers, I would get roughly the same kill times for Red Dragon on both servers.

Changed image to direct link to avoid forum-inappropriate content. Please try to get direct links for images from Imgur for future posts, thanks! ~Shadowhunt

< Message edited by Shadowhunt -- 5/2/2017 16:49:33 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 71
5/2/2017 16:02:31   

I don't get why hit chance is so high in the testing servers stat window... 23.9 is, like, 2390%, isn't it?
AQW  Post #: 72
5/2/2017 17:04:16   
AQW Lead Coder

Well I've figured out what went wrong. This is one of those days that make a programmer want to pull his hair out. So when looking at the numbers people were posting here I was noticing auto attacks, and in general non-crit damage was pretty close between the two servers. Not enough to make a big difference anyway. Crits though were crazy, 3, 4, or 5 times the damage of normal attacks. Now there's a stat in the game called "crit mod", this is essentially how much bonus damage you get on a crit, it's a direct multiplier. So when you get a crit it does (damage x crit mod) pretty simple. Base crit mod is 1.5, so if you were auto attacking for 200 and did a crit you'd crit for 300.

A crit mod of 2.0 should be pretty hard to achieve and 2.5 impossible. That's the way the testing servers were set up. So you have crit mods in the roughly 1.7 to 1.8 range(200 auto would be a 340 crit). The old server should have been similar(if anything crit mod should have been higher on the new servers), so why are people seeing 12k crits? Well when the server was first build all those years ago the math was done wrong. I'm not sure how, I wasn't there then, it could have been a typo, or maybe you were never supposed to be able to increase your luck stat. The result, well high luck values were generating crit mods of 3.0-5.0. No other secondary stat is raised so much by it's controlling primary stat. Dex for example will raise your crit chance or haste by only a small amount. Well since luck is the only way to improve crit mod, and it has such a drastic effect on it, that meant luck was by far the most valuable stat in the game.

Luck was already pretty powerful to begin with but this explains why we could never successfully balance against luck. It's why luck was always the best enhancement. Luck was so much more valuable than every other stat in the game by a lot. You'd probably need a hundred points of strength to equal 1 point of luck. Ouch.
Post #: 73
5/2/2017 17:10:23   
Battleon Sorceress

With Yorumi's post in mind, we have a new plan.

For all those of you who have come to know and love the feel of combat/gameplay on the current servers... Luck will remain the same on the new server. No changes, same power. You'll be the heroes you always have been.

We are also going to change over to have 1-2 new Hardcore servers. These will have updated math, ultra challenge monsters with skills that hit HARD. You'll need to have the proper set-up, and you may just want to bring your friends. Yorumi and co will try out the stat pool set-up, and some other fun things he's had in mind to add more challenge to the game.

There will be exclusive drops and some additional rewards (that is not new... we have always put drops on ultra bosses... now new ones will just be restricted to a unique server).

We will, as always, adjust plans for the hardcore servers based on your feedback, since it is such a new plan.

But what this does is give us the best of both worlds -- all you players who love the feel of the old servers get to keep them. For those who want a real challenge... we'll get that for you. Rest assured. Yorumi's already plotting.

PTR Server Luck Update #2 - thanks to everyone who sent us details. A BIG Luck buff just went up; it should feel much closer. Let us know!
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 74
5/2/2017 17:12:45   
Snow Angel, Bug Hunter, Class Tester

That's honestly kind of rough for you Yorumi, I'm sorry to hear that. People are so used to the way the game and Luck run right now, I imagine it's going to be a fair bit of thinking to figure out how to even it all out. Let us know if there's anything we can do to help you with balance issues or anything! We have a good number of people around here who like doing testing with classes and builds, so the combined might of the forums could likely help you figure some things out.

Edit: That sounds like a pretty good gig Alina, I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out!

< Message edited by Shadowhunt -- 5/2/2017 17:13:59 >
AQ AQW  Post #: 75
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