RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (Full Version)

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Shadronica -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 20:28:27)

OMG I can't believe that people are now complaining about strength mercs!

Mercs have had to evolve to overcome the OP BH with all their strength abuse and luck.

Go and work out how to evolve your build yourself!

As for mages ... don't worry you will get your buff in April as usual. Then watch everyone become mages with high abuse builds.

What goes around comes around.



InceptionAE -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 20:32:35)

"What goes around comes Around" thats Fay Beee's saying isn't it?

On Topic: Use a +5 build and any "OP" build will just be a simple kill.

So many "OP" builds lose to +5 builds..



Shadronica -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 20:39:38)

^DungeonHunter I do believe that saying "what goes around comes around" is not exclusive to Fay Bee. [8D]

There is antidote builds or classes to overcome OP abuse builds just most people are too lazy to think about it.

However there is NO build to beat everyone. That is a 100% fact of EpicDuel!



InceptionAE -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 20:50:19)

Well i'm a merc and with a +5 build, it beats every1 just need to have the "good" weapons, right enhancements, and strategy.



priest_hidan -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 21:10:30)

Besides the high strength build, most Mercs train their support to 50 +. The level 32 with variums have something like "70+36" for their support. It gives them the chance to go first 99% of the times. So on the first turn they use "bunker buster" which always does crits (since they have extreme support) with an average damage of 44..ish... then comes the "artillery strike" which is improved by support and boom... 50+ ish damage... and they have that +13 defense as a passive skill... which is like one less thing to think about defense... and then the only thing they have to worry about is tech which by training improves the bunker buster.... Utopian isn't it?



Larcell -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 21:25:53)

^ No, Utopian. A support merc's weakness, like Dungeon Hunter mentioned, is a +5 focus build. For me, I have a +5 focus build with physical armor.
Also, high emp kills a support merc. After an emp, a support merc can only aux then use weak attacks.



3Xdoomd -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 21:26:33)

Is it even possible to have that much support but enough energy for the BB and AS?
And if they did have enough energy, there is no way their attacks could be doing that much damage,
with the exception that your defense/resistance is too low.




DeathGuard -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 21:42:14)

Not only requirements but also their nonvarium weps got likely varium stats mods. I think is not fair for Bh and TM cause they got it really easy and if you don't believe me most emperors mercs use Str builds and I have proved it because how mages can abuse? malfunction is not that easy to get up you must put almost all stats to get -47 tech.They're no Str cause of requirements and what about deadly aim requirement support, it ruins mostly tank builds all hate that becuase we cant use them for npcs.[:@]



priest_hidan -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 21:53:19)

my defense and resistance are 22-27... not that low. but it breaks through it because they crit... all the time. and yes its possible to have that much support. the highest i have faced was "76+48".



DeathGuard -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 21:58:17)

your a mage or bh man?



Nailboss -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 22:00:42)

a much more elegant solution would be to make it so you can *only* use berserker on *non-stunned* opponents. ie there is always a chance to block it and you won't be killed without getting a turn in. this makes especial sense since berserkers are traditionally low-accuracy classes in combat games, relying on brute strength rather than finesse...



priest_hidan -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 22:02:14)

i am a bounty hunter :D



DeathGuard -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 22:03:56)

Well bh are most probably to get strenght mercs :/



Lectrix -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 22:15:31)

@Shadronica: I'd like to hear a good Tech Mage Build that can take out Strength Mercs (or any other Merc, especially in 2v2).

As many people (including me) have pointed out before, Mercs were designed to take out other Mercs. Mercs are the only Class that has a Strength Nerf Skill (not to mention a Strength BUFF Skill). They obviously gain the most from abusing Support. Bunker Buster, coupled with a 5 Focus Tech Build, DEVASTATES Tech Mages and Bounty Hunters.

Why?

Because Mercs were obviously designed to fight OTHER Mercs. Two (or four) Mercs can just keep Nerfing or Buffing Strength, and blasting each other with Defense/Resistance ignoring Skills that can be partially nullified thanks to Hybrid Armor. But throw in a Bounty Hunter or Tech Mage, and suddenly, we have an unfair (and in some cases, very unfair) Battle.



od -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 22:32:15)

@lectrix
str mercs are really weak vs caster mages because they can deal damage at the same rate and have better defenses



goldslayer1 -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 22:36:02)

ok guys some of u guys are forgetting that str/dex is more OP than str merc,
and some people seem to forget that we loose just as fast as we win.
BH can get wins just as fast as us, except with way better winrate. they debuff ur defense and combined with their str it does just as much damage as a str merc, (and we have no defense/res debuffs) not only that, because the BH has alot of dex and shadow arts he will block u 50% of the time.
so from what i see here, str/dex bh is more OP than str merc.
dax u know what build im talking about, that classic 125 hp build with like 80-88 str and 84 dex?
that build is can be just as fast as str merc win wise, except it will have a way bigger winrate %.
so i dont see how str merc is more op than str/dex BH.
most str merc will get 80% winrate while bh can be just as fast in wins except have upto like 95% winrate
so in the end str merc is more OP how?



Shadronica -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 23:13:24)

@Lectrix. I can give you an idea for a good mage build but it depends on your level and whether you are a varium user.


I recently changed class from mage to merc as I am happy doing either of those two classes. (I have but don't currently use a strength build).

I found the strength abusing BH's with high HP, Shadow Arts and boosters against my mage was not much fun. However, I had not exhausted all the mage builds I could have used to overcome the BH's. My mage averages around 94+% wins.

Mercenaries history against mages have not fared well for the mercs as they usually had lowish resistance. Todays merc has evolved which is great to see as in the past malfunction was deadly to a merc and still is to a degree.

If you want to stay ahead of a stun/zerker merc you really need to think out your build/strategy. Having a good build is one thing but using that build to advantage is another. We all make the odd mistakes especially if we are tired.

And it is true that the zerker does not always hit the target which is most embarrassing for the merc going for a kill shot.



voidance -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/16/2011 23:19:18)

I agree that you should think your build out on how to counter them BUT if they go first and happen to stun you, it is extremely hard to recover. I use a 80 support build and it still annoys me when 20-30 support goes first and if their stun is even maxed it only has a 28% chance on me, so the odds of both happening is very unlikely but still seems to happen more then it should.



Lectrix -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/17/2011 0:06:56)

Yeah, the Stun & Beserker Combo is a major weak point for most Builds, Tech Mage, Bounty Hunter, or Merc. If both hits connect, and Maul Stuns, then... well, good luck surviving that...



BlueKatz -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/17/2011 0:34:38)

why people keep complaining about complaining people? I mean... we just want to make the game more fun than 2 turns kill, it has no strategy... I hate game without strategy...



PivotalDisorder -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/17/2011 2:26:05)

@bluekatz: as much as I agree [my merc has the best win/loss ratio ive achieved while levelling] mages can also do it.
Overload to stun, plasma bolt to finish. just the build is a little bit trickier because the skills dont work together as well.



Lectrix -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/18/2011 0:54:28)

But if EpicDuel is attempting to create Balance, then shouldn't every Class's Skills, more or less, "work together" just as well?

Mercs are honestly unfair to the other Classes. Tech Mages and Bounty Hunters don't have a passive Shield to protect them from Defense/Resistance ignoring Skills. I've noticed many Mercs are now complaining about Bounty Hunters (it seems that Tech mages are too weak to complain about at the moment...). The truth is, they're well equipped against Bounty Hunters -- too well equipped. In addition to the Defense/Resistance ignoring Skills, they also have Intimidate and Hybrid Armor, which can ruin most Bounty Hunter Builds. Has anyone ever tried a Smoke Build at low Levels? I have a Bounty Hunter for my secondary account, and I can confidently tell you this: The only Battles that I have ever lost were because of higher Level Players (particularly those with Varium), sheer dumb luck,... and Hybrid Armor.

With the recent Update and the new Celtic Cleaver, I think it's even more important for Mercs to be given more Club Requirements. Beserker would be a nice start.



beastmo -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/18/2011 1:27:19)

what about 1 turn? :P



voidance -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/18/2011 2:56:33)

I like how the new mace's Big stat req is 45 str, prepare to see abunch of Epicness wannabe's



Dudewithexperience -> RE: Merc's and their two turn kill needs to be fixed (3/18/2011 5:00:57)

I reckon Hybrid and high strength is wicked combo, especially with intimidate and bezerker



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