RE: Mages are back! (Full Version)

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goldslayer1 -> RE: Mages are back! (4/11/2011 3:10:41)

@nexus
the higher ur str the more it costs to keep up ur str
i doubt u had as much tech as a str merc has str.
ur res got nerfed by maybe 2-3 res lvls while strength got nerfed 5-8 lvls
therefor we deal less damage.
also defense and dex may have been nerfed, but the block rate isn't. ur still blocking just as before.



Nexus... -> RE: Mages are back! (4/11/2011 3:21:31)

@gold

As far as I know, DEX and TECH now require 4 above 50, and STR and SUPP require 5 above 50. Thats the same ratio of +1 more than previously right? SO yes everyone got nerfed the same exact way. Your primary does less, my aux does less, you have less dex, so do I.

EpicE4

I'm going to bed so you have the last say....but think about it. This nerf didn't only effect you. It effected everyone equally so therefore everyone is just the same as they were before the balance update.

EDIT: @wisman Did I ever say he didn't have a point about bounties? Also, once again, there is more skill and strategy in a BH build. They actually have to think about how to work around shields, when to place there debuffs etc. Therefore it becomes more about the player then the build. Balance doesnt mean everyone needs equal wins and an 85% win ratio. It means that the PLAYER decided the outcome of the battle, not the build. You see what I am saying? Makes sense to me. This isn't BvB (build vs build) this is PvP (Player vs Player). Should be how the player utilizes his resources, not how the build utilizes the player right?



Wiseman -> RE: Mages are back! (4/11/2011 3:22:53)

Actually yes and no, they can go the same speed, but they would have to raise their strength and lower their hp. Otherwise they would go slower, however the drawback to this is lower percent, but as stated before people that use stun zerk don't care about their percent, they care about winning fast and losing fast (speed).

I made a suggestion for multiple levels of diminishing returns, which in turn would slow down stun zerk mercs AND strength bounties to about a mages speed. And I know for a fact that mage is the slowest class, this in turn would give all classes an equal chance to winning the 1v1 daily. The drawback? Most people don't care bout equality they want to win often and/or fast. If ED was to become truly balanced, which seems to be what most players want, then all classes would go roughly the same speed AND the HIGH percent for any build would be about 85%. Balance is equality, and equality means that everyone wins and loses equally and at equal speeds. With that said, if the players and the developers want to make the game truly balanced, then they wouldn't allow any build that gets 90+ percent all the time remain long (unless they NPC every hour which is a bit different). They also wont allow any class to be faster then the others because this also is a form of imbalance.

So therefor Heal Loop should never get 95+ percent (without NPCS) and neither Strength Mercs nor Strength Bounties should be able to get 50+ an hour (60+ with some luck). The way I figure it 42 wins an hour is plenty, if you went 24 hours that would be 1008 wins. In my honest opinion if you can get more then 1000 wins in a days time, then your doing pretty good. However if your getting 1000+ wins with over 93-96% then somethings wrong, and the only build that's been able to do that is high strength smoke/mass bounties.

Goldslayer has a point about the bounties, just saying.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Mages are back! (4/11/2011 3:31:29)

quote:

As far as I know, DEX and TECH now require 4 above 50, and STR and SUPP require 5 above 50. Thats the same ratio of +1 more than previously right? SO yes everyone got nerfed the same exact way. Your primary does less, my aux does less, you have less dex, so do I


i dont think u understood what i said.
someone who lets say has 25-30 resistance (68 tech before stat reduction)
and the str merc who has 31-38 (128 strength before stat reduction)
the resistance became 23-28
while the str merc primary became 28-34
so u lost 2 res lvls while the strength merc lost 3 attack lvls
see the difference?
we lost more damage while u lost less res.

quote:

Actually yes and no, they can go the same speed, but they would have to raise their strength and lower their hp

allowing tech mages to 2 turn the str merc.
and i have a build for tech mages where the chances of the merc stunning the tech mages are very SLIM.

quote:

If ED was to become truly balanced, which seems to be what most players want, then all classes would go roughly the same speed AND the HIGH percent for any build would be about 85%. Balance is equality, and equality means that everyone wins and loses equally and at equal speeds.

in that case if its balanced we wont be winning 85% of the time, someone has to loose, and i dont think ur wins will come from just lvl 27-28s


quote:

So therefor Heal Loop should never get 95+ percent (without NPCS) and neither Strength Mercs nor Strength Bounties should be able to get 50+ an hour (60+ with some luck). The way I figure it 42 wins an hour is plenty, if you went 24 hours that would be 1008 wins. In my honest opinion if you can get more then 1000 wins in a days time, then your doing pretty good. However if your getting 1000+ wins with over 93-96% then somethings wrong, and the only build that's been able to do that is high strength smoke/mass bounties.

or that build that did 1304+ wins at like almost 90% thats OP right there.

ohh btw i got 94% no NPCs (if u subtract my NPC battles from the total matches i did today yesterday u get about 94% and with the NPCs it comes close to 98% and it was during those tough hours right after reset. altho im willing to bet BH can do better)
but like i said i had back up plans to back up plans. altho i was a merc i could definitely say it requires ALOT of brains to strategize against all those types of builds. u have to knpow how much damage the enemy wep will do if ur going to risk pulling off certain moves when ur at low hp.



Nexus... -> RE: Mages are back! (4/11/2011 3:37:09)

You have less res and lose less in res. We have less STR and lose less in .... STR. It all evens out. Since we have lower res, you do just the same damage as before.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Mages are back! (4/11/2011 3:40:24)

@nexus
nope ur wrong.
if i did exactly 10 damage PER strike, every time on someone with 25-30
when i had 31-38 str
and then stat reduction came and brought ur res down to 23-28
and my strength down to 27-33
im going to be hitting 8 not 10
its called math.
ur res got reduce by 2 my strength got reduce by 4.
if u knew the math for it, u would understand.



wario the great -> RE: Mages are back! (4/11/2011 4:03:58)

one day i will try no npcs and see what i get =)

my build isnt realy spamming anything btw just 4 focus highish dex highish tech and 78 support



Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: Mages are back! (4/11/2011 4:41:33)

The problem here is both builds are extreme polarities. There are many players who like to play balanced for the ability to adapt, yet compromising one extreme it hurts more then solves.


The best defense to high strength and compressed attacks is sufficient HP to buffer the damage and ability to recover.

Wiseman saying, High HP heal loop is most overpowered, I must disagree. Being a mage who has one basic true balanced build that adjusts slightly, there are builds can compete against them. At lvl 30-31, I used a compressed build at 88hp to cause problems for the most seasoned high HP heal loop builds. I outlooped the loopers, yet strong defense and timely shielding protected me against rage aux/gun and still competed well against all the other builds.

The high strength mercs/bhs or High HP Mages Heal loopers can be defended, but the issue is, does one wish to create one defense for one build? Do players enjoy defensive play. I surely do, and it is the sole reason I still play this game. I adore challenging myself to solve problems. Failing or Succeeding means nothing to me. If I feel I did my best, and I feel satisfied after the match, then I continue to play with a smile.


My personal feeling, the area that should be "nerfed," it is Class Change. Since the introduction of this feature, it sways the most popular builds into extremes. Instead of problem solving, the impatient players just go with the tide and follow the trend. This should be set for Selective Class Change either time dated or amount of times used. Either players will solve the game puzzles, or they quit. Quit? I remember this feature was only mentioned to be in-game for a limited time, yet it has remained. Thus, now you have a over abundance of a single class when a popular class/build is in play.



I don't want any class to be OP'ed. but every class should have an opportunity to compete.


Saying Stun/Zerker is fun and heal loop build is boring, this is strictly your opinion. To me, both in the long term will find boredom. High HP is fun now, because so many Strength Mercs are ready to be broken down because their build is only affective against under 100hp builds. 114+ HP mage builds would put stun/zerker into retirement as a vogue build, and personally, I think it is time.


Players are awarded for how many and how fast. Once the developers add better/multiple layers of achievement pvp play where it also includes more strategy and less novelty (how many how fast), this game will continue to keep people's attention and support.

~JZaanu




wario the great -> RE: Mages are back! (4/11/2011 4:52:40)

^^
nicely said jzaanu

i think the problem is class change i only changed to mage from bh when i was lvl 26 and then 1 day to try out merc ive always been a mage and a proud mage idc if i win or lose i just want to try my best if i gave it my all im satisfyed.

if some one thinks of a good build is it fair to nerf their build because they have a creative mind and let the senseless spammers of 1 skill be equal to someone who has actually used time to think about their build not just 'put all your stat points on 1 stat'



The UnleaShedWolfZ -> RE: Mages are back! (4/11/2011 6:55:40)

Yh , Mages Are Great But You Need To Know How To Play With.



tigura -> RE: Mages are back! (4/11/2011 11:53:53)

I think that mages arent UPed.... It just takes a lot more skill to find a succesful build (at least right now). Im currently testing 140 hp builds, since the update kind of destroyed my 152 hp build ;). I have found that the problem is the lack of damage output. IMHO, str mercs are OPed in the sense that they can get kills really fast. However, i was a str merc for about 30 mins myself, and I can tell you that the number of losses is way up there. It may be fast, but the success rate isnt the best. For example, I lost to a lvl 29 (?) mage went first and malfed. I tryed stunning and was blocked. Then he used maxed overload and stunned me. To my horror, he then used maxed plasma bolt and killed me. I retrained. I do think that the str mercs need to be nerfed in some way. However, str merc builds are only good for getting fast wins. If you're looking for a high percent, go mage.



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