RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (Full Version)

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goldslayer1 -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/7/2011 17:49:19)

@lectrix
well of course sherlock, reroute, bloodlust shadow arts, deadly aim, and hybrid are essentials to their respective classes.
saying that mages are UP because they need reroute and deadly aim doesn't give u much of an arguement.
mercs need hybrid, its in everyone of their builds, BH need bloodlust its in everyone of their builds.
shadow arts is also needed or used alot altho some choose not to.



Lectrix -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/7/2011 17:55:18)

@Above: You misunderstand me.

What I'm trying to say is that Mercs have more variety, and more freedom (after all, they only have two Skills that require a Club).



goldslayer1 -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/7/2011 18:02:19)

@lectrix
that really doesn't say much about how "OP" they are when they are not.
all of their skills are blockable except surg, art, and BB.
mage has skills that require staff, but most are unblockable
(plasma bolt, overload, plasma rain, supper charge, and deadly aim should count since ur gun is unblockable)

all classes have their varieties
u must have misunderstood me.

@below
typo lol, fixed it.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/7/2011 18:04:36)

quote:

all of their skills are unblockable except surg, art, and BB.

umm i think u mean blockable or did i misread this?



Lectrix -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/7/2011 19:31:21)

quote:

mage has skills that require staff, but most are unblockable

That makes all the difference. Tech Mages' unblockable Skills aren't the most powerful to begin with. But the fact that each and every one of those Skills requires a Staff means that Tech Mages have an incredible lack of freedom. The fact that there are only 3 Physical Staves doesn't help either.

quote:

all classes have their varieties

True, but because of their lack of freedom, it seems that Tech Mages have less variety than Mercs.



goldslayer1 -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/7/2011 19:34:14)

@lectrix
well no one said u had to have an energy aux or gun.
have u tried a physical gun and aux but energy staff? with the caster skills?
most people say lack of freedom because they want to have energy gun and aux.



Lectrix -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/7/2011 19:46:27)

quote:

have u tried a physical gun and aux but energy staff? with the caster skills?

As a matter of fact, yes, I have.

quote:

well no one said u had to have an energy aux or gun.

That still doesn't explain why we should have only 3 Physical Staves, while the other Classes have many more Class-specific Physical Weapons.



goldslayer1 -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/7/2011 19:48:08)

quote:

That still doesn't explain why we should have only 3 Physical Staves, while the other Classes have many more Class-specific Physical Weapons.

well i do not know the reasoning behind only 3 physical staffs.
but be sure that mages are well capable of defeating any other build/class/strategy in the game.



Lectrix -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/7/2011 19:53:15)

quote:

mages are well capable of defeating any other build/class/strategy in the game.

Ah, but can they do it as easily as Mercs can? Especially in 2v2?

I don't think so.



MrBones -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/7/2011 19:55:27)

LOL GoldSlayer you will never see the end of this. As soon as you win an argument, he starts complaining about something else.
This quote is the icing on the cake:

quote:

Ah, but can they do it as easily as Mercs can? Especially in 2v2?

I don't think so.


Now he complains about not winning easily enough.



Lectrix -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/7/2011 20:00:13)

Balance is "a state of equilibrium". If all three Classes were truly Balanced, we would all but equally powerful, and equally powerful at the same time.



goldslayer1 -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/7/2011 20:26:16)

quote:

Ah, but can they do it as easily as Mercs can? Especially in 2v2?

dude, merc isn't easy.
i like to see u handle a situation after ur out of energy. and u just spent ur rage aux on him, and he's still coming at u.
and i was a 2 vs 2 mage back in my low lvls.
at lvl 29 i reached like 80% at the end of the day with 280 something wins, the only reason i didn't win was because i couldn''t play the last 3 hours of the day and had to leave, so they guy that was behind me (a merc btw, he also had a bad %) cought up during those 3 hours i was out.

rogue ninja plays 2 vs 2 as a BH most of the time and he's capable of 80%.
other BH like PRIMAL ASSASSIN are capable of 80% in 2 vs 2
there are more mages in 2 vs 2 aswell.

seems like every time i win the argument u look for more to keep arguing about, eventually u will run out.
and IMO i did WAY better as a mage at LVL 29 than i did at lvl 32 merc. when i went for 2 vs 2 the scond time with merc i got 75% and about 250 wins. and btw the build i was using was not support.



Firewallblast -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/8/2011 1:05:55)

Um.. goldslayer don't take this the wrong way but on page 4 i started imagining ur words were coming from a Mexican with a thick accent. Lol

Well back to the topic all this looks like is an up and down argument and now Lectrix is losing ground. Casters and Heal Loop are not dead they might be not as great as before and they pack quite a punch. There are builds that empower the use of plasma bolt,plasma rain,overload,supercharge,or even bludgeon for that matter. You might want to try to make a build like that before you say the build is dead. The build is only dead when not even one person uses it or imprints it in to the build in some way or form. Right now only the OP'd build are used and only a few are actually unique what makes a build OP'd is the players from copying and pasting builds and/or making a minor change and saying it's theirs.I would also like to point out a thing about ur assault bot argument, mages and bh's don't need to use an assault bot they could use one of their skills and have quite a punch, the ppl who choose to have assault bot have to give up gamma bot which packs a big punch. Oh and really I don't care if u put a stat requirement on all our skill most mercs use clubs anyway and if that happened ppl would probably find a way around that unlike you. Lectrix face the facts....



Mr. Black OP -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/8/2011 1:14:05)

@above
clubs, or celtic cleaver/azrael bane lol



edwardvulture -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/8/2011 1:18:16)

lol Mexican accent
Anyways this is all enhancements fault because it caused those balance updates to be needed. you might not know this but that actually crushed a lot of creative merc and mage builds in 2 on 2. But I truly feel bad for you Lextrix and how you are unable to win more than half a time with a plasma bolt build.



xxmirxx -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/8/2011 1:58:09)

quote:

@Above: You misunderstand me. What I'm trying to say is that Mercs have more variety, and more freedom (after all, they only have two Skills that require a Club).


actually Merc were nerf in beta times and are FC now has 4 cool downs.



Lectrix -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/8/2011 2:20:38)

@edward: I hope you're not being sarcastic... and how do you know about my Build..?

quote:

Lectrix is losing ground.

Says who? The only thing I'm losing are Quotes from myself that I can reuse.


quote:

i like to see u handle a situation after ur out of energy. and u just spent ur rage aux on him, and he's still coming at u.

Varium Mercs will find a way... there's always the Gamma Bot. And Boosters, of course. But the battle would probably be over by the time the hypothetical Merc used his Auxiliary with Rage.

Hybrid Armor certainly helps in situations like the one you mentioned. Let's not forget that.

quote:

rogue ninja plays 2 vs 2 as a BH most of the time and he's capable of 80%.
other BH like PRIMAL ASSASSIN are capable of 80% in 2 vs 2
there are more mages in 2 vs 2 aswell.

"Capable of" is one thing. Actually doing something is another matter. While Bounty Hunters and Tech Mages are "capable of 80% in 2 vs 2", how many have actually done this? How many Bounty Hunters or Tech Mages are trying to get an 80% win rate in 2v2, RIGHT NOW, in the midst of so many Mercs?


quote:

There are builds that empower the use of plasma bolt,plasma rain,overload,supercharge,or even bludgeon for that matter. You might want to try to make a build like that before you say the build is dead

Alright, I'd like to clear this up before it becomes a big issue. I DO, in fact, currently use a Build that involves Plasma Bolt. When I mentioned "Caster Builds", I was referring to the ones that don't involve Malfunction. I wasn't aware of the fact that Caster Builds can utilize Malfunction. My bad.

quote:

I would also like to point out a thing about ur assault bot argument

"Assault Bot argument"? I don't think I mentioned the Assault Bot in this Thread...



edwardvulture -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/8/2011 2:29:25)

How do you have so much trouble? I actually don't get you.
Here's my build, it gets more than 50% in 2 on 2
Equips: Imperial Warstaff, Seraph E, Hypertalon, Graphyte gun
Stats:
110 Life
48 MP
39+9 strength
38+20 dex
35+19 tech
Iforgot but it goes 67
5 3 1
1 1 1
4 8 1
3 0 6



Lectrix -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/8/2011 2:38:52)

For Discussion purposes, my Build goes like this:

Equips: Caden's Wrath, Seraph P, Hypertalon, Backpackzooka, Gamma Bot

Stats:
108 HP
54 MP
40 (+5) Strength
50 (+4) Dexterity
40 (+40) Technology
42 (+7) Support

Skills:
4 2 10
4 1 1
4 7 0
2 0 0

Perhaps my problem lies in the fact that I don't have Stat Enhancements (yet)? Or maybe I've just been very unlucky..?



goldslayer1 -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/8/2011 7:00:30)

quote:

Um.. goldslayer don't take this the wrong way but on page 4 i started imagining ur words were coming from a Mexican with a thick accent. Lol

what? lmao im not mexican



Wootz -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/8/2011 8:39:22)

Aight, I'll try making a new build on my characters. I'll keep you guys updated on how it works.



Wootz -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/8/2011 8:47:46)

Experimental build, no. 1.
Noob Merc build, low credits.

Mercenery:

Level 27
HP: 71
EP: 61
STR: 70
DEX: 30 +5
TECH: 30 +10
SUP: 33 + 10

Primary: 16-20 + 20 (Energy Damage)
Side: /
Aux: /
Bot: /
Defense: 11-14 +1 (+12 HA)
Resistance: 14-17 +1

Skillset:
1-1-M
0-M-0
0-3-1
0-3-0

Battle Notes: Works pretty good when Fightin STR build characters. Works on Medium STR- SS to Massacre build. Low Defense and Resistance. The character needs better equipment then just a Mjolnir. If berserker is blocked. You're good as dead.

Experimental build no. 2. Low Credits. High Tech, BB to Heal build.
Merc
Level: 27

HP: 77
EP:65
STR:27
DEX;:36 + 5
TECH:62 + 10
SUP:33 + 10
Defense:13-16 +1 ( +12 HA )
Resistance: 24-29 +1
Prim: 6-8 + 20
Side: /
Aux: /

Skillset:
8-1-M
0-0-M
0-0-0
0-0-0

Battle Notes: Actually managed to defeat a higher level Mage. The healing really helps. Poor damage, needs a physical weapon. BB does plenty of damage. Has a good resistance. Low Defense. Was able to defeat a STR build Merc. This build could work with some decent gear. Had a fight with a Energy weaponed BH, lasted 15 rounds and lost due to Blocking.



Firewallblast -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/8/2011 14:03:10)

@ goldslayer I know I was just tired and i wanted to type a 5 and not a 4

@ Lectrix

quote:

Assault Bot argument"? I don't think I mentioned the Assault Bot in this Thread...

I think u mentioned something about assault bot debuffing or something but ignore it if u didn't.

quote:

Varium Mercs will find a way... there's always the Gamma Bot. And Boosters, of course. But the battle would probably be over by the time the hypothetical Merc used his Auxiliary with Rage.

Not all mercs have Gamma Bot some have Assault Bot. A mercs auxiliary has a 3 turn cool-down a mages gun has a 2 turn cool-down.

quote:

Hybrid Armor certainly helps in situations like the one you mentioned. Let's not forget that.


Of course Hybrid Helps it's like saying blood lust and SA help in these situations or DA and reroute like really.

quote:


"Capable of" is one thing. Actually doing something is another matter. While Bounty Hunters and Tech Mages are "capable of 80% in 2 vs 2", how many have actually done this? How many Bounty Hunters or Tech Mages are trying to get an 80% win rate in 2v2, RIGHT NOW, in the midst of so many Mercs?


The key word is "trying" as u pointed out ppl don't want to try or when they try they just give up.







goldslayer1 -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/8/2011 16:19:20)

quote:

Varium Mercs will find a way... there's always the Gamma Bot. And Boosters, of course. But the battle would probably be over by the time the hypothetical Merc used his Auxiliary with Rage.

Hybrid Armor certainly helps in situations like the one you mentioned. Let's not forget that.

and so does SA, reroute, bloodlust, deadly aim.
tech mages have 2 usefull passives, BH has 2 usefull passive.
and mercs only have 1. im aware of bloodshield but i dont think giving up ur HP when ur out of attacks and energy is the best thing to do.

and i said support mercs, so they wouldn't have focus damage -.-
right now ur just looking for more excuses.

quote:

"Capable of" is one thing. Actually doing something is another matter. While Bounty Hunters and Tech Mages are "capable of 80% in 2 vs 2", how many have actually done this? How many Bounty Hunters or Tech Mages are trying to get an 80% win rate in 2v2, RIGHT NOW, in the midst of so many Mercs?
thats the thing, people dont want to try. but dont come over here and tell me BH and tech mage is UP in 2 vs 2, because they aren't


@speedy
please use this Stat Progression to get ur stats calibrated right.



The Shadow Dragon -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/8/2011 19:01:03)

To all you Bounties.

Just add one point to a Emp grenade and get 10 more energy point's and BAM, problem solved, Merc's wont be a problem anymore.



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