RE: Boosters (Full Version)

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Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Boosters (12/15/2011 0:54:24)

It is possible to consider luck as a factor in battle when planning a build. However there is a limit to how much negative luck any build can take. In a game of mathematical precision and control, boosters are a method to counter the uncertainties of the RNG. Some enjoy risk; others prefer to tread the safer path. Hence I don't think boosters are a sign of weakness - they are rather tools to give players a greater advantage over the RNG and a sign of caution, more than anything else.

Neither are they unfair, since boosters are easily attainable.

I don't quite understand the distinction between Field Medic and boosters in the context of this discussion. If the issue is whether one has boosters or not, you can simply view your opponent's character page and judge whether (s)he is likely to boost.

I emphathise with those who detest booster-users in an otherwise equal and enjoyable match, where luck factors are limited or equally distributed. Yet if one should look at it from another perspective; if using boosters is something expected, like using a gun or a robot. Something that isn't an underhanded deus ex machina but rather an expected part of one's arsenal. In that light, boosters aren't a sign of weakness.

Furthermore, though this really is rather evident, the opinions and mindsets of a few booster users may not necessarily be representative of the majority, as with other groups such as the varium-using community.



AQWPlayer -> RE: Boosters (12/15/2011 1:38:24)

Boosters are cheap when it is a TLM that boosts o.o



Baron Dante -> RE: Boosters (12/15/2011 3:41:48)

As I think I've mentioned before, luck is part of your skills.

However, you cannot directly affect your luck, but what you can do, is minimize the effects of luck. The Boosters are a very good way to do so.

On which note, I could care less what others think of me potentially using them. However, I will only use them if I feel it can actually help me to win. If someone is taking minimal damage while mauling me in obscene amounts where I'm completely outmatched, why prolong the battle?

Anyways, I would use them, but I rarely do, because I'm lazy. :P If someone uses theirs though, I will step out of being lazy.



Soldier 1124 -> RE: Boosters (12/15/2011 20:10:21)

Well, I am a 4/5 varium player, and I use boosters alot, but does that make me bad? Nope. Boosters are part of the game, so they are meant to be used. One thing that people should consider, before saying that a booster user is noob, is the stat difference. For example, I have 100 stat modifers, while the average full varium player has around 116. While not as much as the nonvarium gap, it is still a big gap. So if one booster is all it takes to beat someone with 4 more levels worth of stats, then wouldnt that be skill?



Rush -> RE: Boosters (12/15/2011 22:42:26)

If you've got bazooka would you use them? Of course they are in your arsenal, same goes for boosters.

The better player takes full advantage of whatever he has.



Lord Nub -> RE: Boosters (12/15/2011 22:49:57)

Man I'm tired of fools hiding behind their primaries...

Primaries are cheap, especially when TaM's use them...

Only noobs use primary weps....

Real men like myself don't need a primary weapon, we just enter the match naked and pwn these primary wielding, armor abusing nubs...



Vendile -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 4:25:33)

Screw honour, I have boosters.



endtime -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 6:14:59)

It's part of the game. Those who are not using them for an advantage clearly lacks a strong grasp of this game, probably has a low win rate, and is the true "noob".



frogbones -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 11:05:55)

^ Really? Last time I checked, I had 16000 wins and 4000 losses. And I despise NPCing as much as I do Boosting---I earn my wins---so my record isn't a fraud and my wins aren't cheapened by crutch victories. And implying that I lack a strong grasp of the game? Lol. I was the pioneer of the BH smoke-mass-emp build way back in the day. I've experimented and had more builds than you've probably seen in your ED career.

In the future, if you're gonna come, at least come correct, son.



Remorse -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 11:11:32)

^ SO basically this is my guess

You like using abusive power builds were you start, you win (providing no luck)

But by the same tocken boosting would be worse then striking/watever you do to abuse power, because thats not how power abusing builds work, basically if you boost your worse of usally cause you oppenent will hit more then the boost healed ending up wasting a turn.

SOO you want people to stop using boosts aginst you because you cant sucsefully use it in you game ruining builds such a shame.



BlueKatz -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 11:16:38)

Even in a PvP game... people just never can understand what's the difference between real cost and opportunity cost [:(]



Fay Beeee -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 11:19:41)

Guys. Chill

Boosters yes or boosters no. Always a free choice whether you like it or not.

Simple answer - yes or no.

Problem solved. :)



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 11:27:38)

This topic is becoming pretty heated. People are becoming offended. I suppose you guys chill before this gets locked.



Lord Nub -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 12:27:27)

Agreed with Endtime.

Using a Str BH smoke, mass build is a horrible case to back not using boosters, especially back in the day because defenses weren't nearly as high and bloodlust was far more advantageous.

Without boosts the game would rely even more on luck because matches are so fast paced. HP boosts are even more needed now to survive after some garbage player gets a 4% block, 2% deflect, and then crits you at a 1% chance. Amazing how all these things happen in the same match also.

Was I outdueled and I should just accept defeat as frog suggests? Or should I boost and allow my percentages more time to even out and perhaps win the match?

Most cases I see that are against boosting are from those that suffer losses from opponents doing it because they rely on some low dex str build and end up getting blocked eventually. Others simply don't know the proper times to use them or want the battle to be over 20 seconds sooner whether they win or lose.

Your choice, but for those of us who wish to win in a PvP game(I know that's just crazy), we have every right to use every strategy at our disposals.



frogbones -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 12:42:43)

I guess you all missed the "have made and had more builds than you've seen" part. My wins have come from Support, Dex, and Strength builds spanning from the beginning of Beta to now. And I've never been a Booster.

Currently, my total Str is 44. My battles are long, strategical, and, for those reasons, fun. My opponents call my build words like "frustrating," and "annoying."

I've succeeded with all types of builds. This game bores me, and one of the ways I keep interest is frequently coming up with new or different builds. I don't ask for them on the forums, like some do.

If everyone used boosters, it'd be a wash. There'd be no point for their existence. Therefore, boosting does not prove you are better than your opponent. You may win the fight because of them, but you definitely aren't a better or more experienced player.

If you have to boost, I'd argue that you're less experienced for having to do so.



TrickoTreat -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 12:58:24)

Argh boosters .... It was kinda irritaing when I fought a tac merc while I was a TM and he boosted.. ( No fair! ) But , I boosted him back :D



Lord Nub -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 13:01:42)

So the argument isn't about boosts but rather this is a ermmm how do I put this in Artix Entertainment terms....It involves measuring a piece of equipment...

Yeah you've made more builds than anyone has ever seen lol.

Lets begin here, assuming your the best thing that ever hit EpicDuel, your record would not be better using boosters? I'm at 11,300 1v1 wins with 800 losses and I also dread NPC's. I also boost and have a much higher win percentage than you.

Since your implying that your the best and everyone that boosts is garbage, then I can only assume that you should be at 16k and about 800-1k losses if you used boosts without using builds that have no strategical advantage using boosts ie. Str Bh's used in your example against endtime.

quote:

If everyone used boosters, it'd be a wash. There'd be no point for their existence.


Proves you have much to learn. We all have much to learn about this game and no one has fully mastered it. Timing should not be something I should have to explain. trying to survive until blocks start functioning as they should against a low dex str spammer isn't something I should have to explain to such a pro.

Surviving to outlast ones energy only strategy ie. Tech BM's with rain and plasma cannon, BH's with high dex Multi-Shot and Stun Nade, Poison Tac Mercs that are all def and aux or just support mercs in general with an aux and artillery.

All great reasons to utilize HP boosts. Whose admitting defeat in these situations? The guys with many abilities and attacks to survive multiple situations? Or the guys with no endurance who are tired after a few rounds and end up losing from poor strategy?

I guess we should all just have super fast builds that are incapable of surviving beyond round 3 and let first turn decide our fates then...

Nah imma keep boosting and increasing my win rate while you keep some misguided perception that players shouldn't use everything at their disposals. Why should I suffer a loss from a booster while not boosting? That's the poorest strategy I've ever heard of.



I am Primal -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 13:28:17)

boosters are needed to out beat luck but it is cheap when a tlm uses them like aqwplayer says.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 13:31:30)

@Frogbones No offense. But I'm not understanding your logic at all. Thats like saying if your about to die in battle and your opponet is about to win using your aux to kill them real quick on rage or healing means you are less experienced. That doesn't make sense to me. Just because someone is about to die and be beaten by their opponet does not mean they have been outmatched and is the less skilled/experienced player. Just like what Lord Nub said. What if your noob opponet has the minimal or a very low chance to block,crit,deflect, and so on. And they block 4 times, crit twice, and deflect three times! Your going to say that they are more experienced? When their the one still having their starter weapon and a level 19 aux at level 30?! Thats bs to me. I don't see why you believe using everything you have at your disposal to win means you've been outmatched and you are a unskilled player. So you can believe what you want. But I'm doing all I can to win.



frogbones -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 14:36:56)

Hmmmm, where to start...lol.

quote:

Since your implying that your the best and everyone that boosts is garbage.


Nope, not implying anything. People who boost will have a higher win ratio than those who don't, like you said. All I'm saying is that a higher win ratio does not a better (experienced) player make.

quote:

Timing should not be something I should have to explain. trying to survive until blocks start functioning as they should against a low dex str spammer isn't something I should have to explain to such a pro.


You're talking probability, and in the end, it all evens out. One match vs. a low-dex str spammer you never block, and the next one you block four times. Happens all the time. But over time, the numbers don't lie. If your chance to block an opponent is 40%, if you fight them enough times that's where it will end up. Really, the difference between us is that I don't feel the need to boost when I'm going through one of those "not blocking" periods. Statistically, like I said, it will even out, so I take the good with the bad like everyone else does. The first word of RNG is random, in case you forgot, and it works for you just as much as it does against you.

quote:

I guess we should all just have super fast builds that are incapable of surviving beyond round 3 and let first turn decide our fates then...


If you want a super fast win build go for it. As for me, right now I'm really enjoying my 10-turn, 2-heal, Tecnician, Static Charge like 4 times build. It's slow as molasses and very reliant on blocking and not being blocked. And the funny thing is, sometimes I beat 34 full varium "Wall build" tac mercs who boost twice.

quote:

And they block 4 times, crit twice, and deflect three times! Your going to say that they are more experienced? When their the one still having their starter weapon and a level 19 aux at level 30?! Thats bs to me. I don't see why you believe using everything you have at your disposal to win means you've been outmatched and you are a unskilled player.


I know it's several pages before this, but in the beginning I specified that we're assuming an even-leveled, Varium vs. Varium fight. Furthermore, in your example, I'd say that player earned that win---even if it was lucky. Good for them! Me beating a player 4 levels below me means absolutely nothing. But to that player, think how awesome they feel when that *extremely rare* win does happen!

I guess I'm just not so wrapped up in my win ratio as some of you are.

All I know is that boosters ruin good games, not make them.



Algorithm -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 16:30:42)

Loving this thread.



Wandering Guardian -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 16:35:09)

If you feel affronted by someone you are facing using a booster there is a simple solution. Use one yourself. I always find that doing this appeases my momentary annoyment as i feel that the battle is then 'fair', and thus we carry on from there.

As one of the people i'm subscribed to on Youtube likes to say at the end of each of his videos, "Keep calm and carry on."

~WG



Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 16:45:54)

With the new skills attached to weapons which are percentage based and rely nothing on the stat placements or skill tree settings, booster use will be more prevalent more then ever.

With booster use, there is a sacrifice. It costs credits, and if a build is booster reliant, it will be expensive over long term. Also the critical percentage and rage is raised against the one who uses the booster.

So when looks at both aspects, booster use is not a cheap disrespectful method, but also a risk and sacrifice for the player who does use them.




Zean Zapple -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 16:59:02)

Using a feature available to you is perfectly fine. I don't see why people wouldn't keep a booster or two at a time.



Epic Pwnser -> RE: Boosters (12/16/2011 17:00:29)

So I think everyone here is in support of using boosters except frogbones lol.
Well it seems most of us anyway.

Now what does that tell you about general opinion.
If everyone keeps saying: Boosters are OK and the games isn't affected by it to the point you can't even play the game (boosters don't do this).

Then I'm pretty sure that boosters don't do much harm.
quote:

Loving this thread.

True dat. Everyone's saying exactly the same thing lol.



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