TLMs not as OP as ppl think (Full Version)

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Zeoth -> TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 22:42:36)

I love how everybody thinks that TLM is the OP class. TBH, IMHO there is no real OP class. Its just that there are so many they seem OP. What makes them so tough is they have 2 passives. Hybrid which lets them worry about physical defense and Reroute which makes them makes them forget about energy management. Btw Im a mage.



PD -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 23:03:51)

You just said there's no OP class because there are none.

Your argument is useless.

Please mathematically prove that all classes are mathematically balanced. Comprehensively.

Proof or it's not true.



Zeoth -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 23:09:00)

its in my honest opinion im not asking u to go along with it



ND Mallet -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 23:11:42)

The two biggest flaws to mercs, 1. High energy skills, no regen. 2. Blocked when using strength. But what about TLMs? 1. Reroute for high energy skills. 2. Smokescreen for less blocks. Not only do they hit harder , they hit more often and get to do that multiple times while still being well defended. A Str build is dangerous. A Str Merc is even more so. A Str Tank Merc is much stronger and a Str Tank TLM trumps them all since it can regen energy and not get blocked as often.



Zeoth -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 23:13:46)

that still doesnt make them OP. Just more dangerous than other classes. If ur a mage use defense matrix it actually helps alot



PD -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 23:14:53)

quote:

its in my honest opinion im not asking u to go along with it


But you are asking me to go along with it since this is a balance thread. It's not an opinion once it's a balance thread.

Can you actually use some math to PROVE that the game and classes are fine in complete entirety? Stop using anecdotes. We want proof.



Zeoth -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 23:16:02)

its not a balance thread. Im not asking anybody to agree with it. Its just a statement of what i believe



PD -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 23:19:47)

You're talking about balance and a class's state of balance which isn't supposed to be subjective when it comes to knowing their status.

Stop evading my request. Do the math. Prove to us all that they're all ok. If not your opinion is a lie and invalid.

Stop deluding yourself. I suppose you don't really know what balance is do you?



Zeoth -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 23:20:59)

Ive played long enough to know what balance is. Im not evading ur request for math. I just dont wanna do it. Call my opinion whatever u want its what i believe



PD -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 23:23:18)

You're not supposed to have an opinion about balance. That contradicts the whole definition of balance. You can't say "I think X and X are overpowered". Either it is or it isn't.

Then tell me, what is balance? Educate us and enlighten us all.

If you know what it truly is without subjectivity, how come you won't come up with the math that's supposed to come with it?

Understand I'm not flaming you - I'm asking you to back up your statements with irrefutable proof.



Zeoth -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 23:27:17)

Im not suppose to have an opinion about balance? If the world worked how things were suppose to be, everything would be even nice and smooth and the world would be fair to everybody or some stuff like that.
Im not stating that "I think X and X are overpowered" Im saying to me NOTHING IS.

Sorry didn't see your edit ill calm down :P



PD -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 23:32:33)

You're not supposed to have an opinion about balance because most of it is gleaning what something does, what value it displays, arriving at a clear conclusion, and making a fair and lasting solution from there. Opinions have nothing to do with the state of the world. Everything works for a reason. A BACKED UP, IRREFUTABLE, and RATIONAL reason. You're using a strawman.

Balance is about correcting the values on stuff and fixing the mechanisms that make the game work. It's supposed to involve math so everyone gets a clear picture of what's wrong and a clear-cut solution that lasts without making more problems.

Can you at least TELL us why with GOOD evidence why you believe that everything is fine? Honestly, how do you "think" everything is fine without 100% certainty without any guide of math or reference? If you can't back your balance statements with evidence and math, and proof, then you should think about recanting your statement.



kittycat -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 23:54:08)

TLMS are a little "OP" because they have 2 major passives. Every class has only 1 major passive, and some have 1 minor passive. The major passive is what makes it powerful in a way. However, TLMs have 2 major passives, which lets them defeat more opponents than they can. The norm class balance should be 1 major passive for each class.



Zeoth -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/8/2011 23:55:34)

Which is what im trying to point out. I said theres no OP class but i didnt say that things were balanced



Xx DooooooM xX -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 0:00:20)

sigh tlms are a pain but it dont take alot to make a good build with them they arnt op they are just copying most of the other classes like mage and bh and reglar merc. thats my opin



ND Mallet -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 0:01:01)

@Zeoth If nothing is OPd then nothing is UPd and therefore everything is equal and balanced. You can't have balance with having UPd or OPd anything. If it's balanced then nothing is OPd or UPd.



AQWPlayer -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 0:01:59)

@ND
Agreed. As long as one class is better than another, there is no balance. (or balance is incomplete)



kittycat -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 0:02:11)

It is considered "OP" in terms of balancing equality. There is no "OP" class in terms of class definitions. People are saying it is "OP" because it is beyond the norm power. So, You're right, but they're right also.



Xx DooooooM xX -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 0:07:08)

tem (tech mage) have the abilty to kill tlms but tem are almost gone expect the low lvls i found tem more of a problem



Zeoth -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 0:08:45)

finally someone who sees in between the bold lines. theres the obvious OP and UP but theres also the stronger and weaker which doesnt completely define a class. skill levels are what make the difference



Xx DooooooM xX -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 0:10:36)

that true a good build and brains you should be abitly to beat everyone almost but some you cant thats life



kittycat -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 0:14:03)

Well, Skill levels make a difference, but how about their stats? Their stats influence the power of a certain level. Such as a 74 Dex - Max Overload is equivalent to a 80ish Dex - Level 9 Overload.



Zeoth -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 0:17:31)

true ive nver been able to compared the stat progressions, but im sure its not that big



Xx DooooooM xX -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 0:18:22)

yea almost any skill you can over power but certain builds like a max super charge if the other guy max out his tech so some builds dont work on some ppl with thier builds



Midnightsoul -> RE: TLMs not as OP as ppl think (12/9/2011 1:14:13)

I've been all evolved classes (each for at least a month)...this is such as disgrace that ppl still complain...TLM isn't OP'ed. We just need cyber's shadow arts to increase hit chance instead of block chance.



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