RE: The Thoughts of the Changes (Full Version)

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Zeoth -> RE: The Thoughts of the Changes (1/8/2012 3:00:22)

@above
Static technically isn't a passive it's like a skill that cost no energy like assimilation and they took frenzy? O.o




Gepard Acht -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 3:03:52)

Balance team FTW

Mercs need an energy regain skill and possibly another defensive skill other than BS




RageSoul -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 3:10:25)

^Agreed .




ND Mallet -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 3:21:11)

Because 1 less defense/resistance completely destroys any hope Mercs had of winning fights. [/sarcasm] Also if you haven't noticed, not every class has a Poison skill. Why is this? Because classes are supposed to be different. The classes are supposed to be different so you can choose one that fits your playing style better, use the type of skills you like more.




Goony -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 3:56:30)

^ No the hope of winning was completely destroyed well before this nerf. This is just the icing on the cake ;)




goldslayer1 -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 4:01:29)

quote:

Because 1 less defense/resistance completely destroys any hope Mercs had of winning fights. [/sarcasm] Also if you haven't noticed, not every class has a Poison skill. Why is this? Because classes are supposed to be different. The classes are supposed to be different so you can choose one that fits your playing style better, use the type of skills you like more.

poison compared to energy regain......
i would prefer an energy regain any day over poison. as it is much better.

and while it wasn't a huge nerf, it was still a nerf. and definitely not necessary

quote:

^ No the hope of winning was completely destroyed well before this nerf. This is just the icing on the cake ;)

lol




Ashari -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 5:13:21)

Merged together the "The Thoughts of the Changes" and "Merc nerf, how lovely." threads. Let's keep this topic focused on the changes that were made last week. Other balances issues and ideas still belong in the Balance Discussion thread. Thanks!



I think the issue of class balance vs. skill balance needs to be brought up in response to your post Goldslayer.

True, Mercenaries are slightly underperforming as a class. If you look at skills individually though, Hybrid Armor was clearly outperforming nearly every other skill. This was a minor change to address both this and the uneven distribution of the bonus over the skill levels. A skill point in Hybrid Armor at level 2 was +2 Defense, while a skill point at any other level was +1 Defense.

On top of fixing up the problems with Tactical Mercenaries, part of the goal for last week's balance changes were to begin revamping skills that just weren't as useful as they should be. That's why Bunker Buster, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Bolt and Fireball have new scaling (if anyone is wondering, I'll post the new numbers below). The nerf to Hybrid Armor wasn't intended as a nerf to Mercs. It's a step to bringing skills closer to being on the same level. The change to Bunker Buster (which is quite a buff from its past numbers) more than offsets one lost defense point.

Mercs are still stuck with two of the most underperforming skills-- Intimidate and Field Commander --but those will get addressed soon enough. With those changes, the class will definitely be back on its feet.

New numbers
A quick rundown of how this works. The base is the base damage of the skill at level 1 (with a level 20 character). The level factor is how many levels it takes to improve the skill by 1 damage. Below level 20, you subtract the level factor, instead of adding it. The stat factor is the amount of stat points it takes to improve the skill by 1 damage (ie: a stat factor of 3 on Plasma Bolt, means Plasma Bolt receives one extra damage point for every 3 Technology). The step is the improvement from investing 1 skill point in the skill.

Here's a simplified plug-and-chug formula (it doesn't account for diminishing returns or base/random damage on Bunker and Plasma, but this should give you a good estimate):

Final Damage = Base + (Step * Skill Level) + (20 - Character Level) / Level Factor + (Stat / Stat Factor)
				-- Factors --
			Base	Lvl 	Stat	Step

Plasma Bolt		23	3	3	2
Plasma Bolt (old)	17	3.5	4	3

Fireball	 	 	23	3	3	2
Fireball (old)		17	3.5	4	3

Bunker Buster		25	4	4	2
Bunker Buster (old)	19	5	5	3

Plasma Cannon		25	4	4	2
Plasma Cannon (old)	19	5	5	3




Goony -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 21:55:37)

Played a bit of 1v1 today, tried a lot of builds! Mercs are a total loss at the moment... Those upgrades to intimidate and field commander better be good!!!




Wraith -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 22:07:00)

CH is OP.

Anyone that is not a Cyber Hunter should agree (excludes TLM).




hardcore59 -> RE: The Thoughts of the Changes (1/8/2012 22:07:09)

they did practically nothing for le BM




goldslayer1 -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 22:08:08)

people say that Tech mage beats CH.
i find that a lie, if the CH went first against tech mages before, the CH would win. if tech mage went second the CH could still win.
now with this huge energy shield plus an energy armor, it destroys tech mages.




BlueKatz -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 22:12:56)

@gold I did some test fight with CH, my TM build (which is stupid) win against him just because he tank so much and make too much mistake plus letting me MP steal like 3 times and he get blocked Charge

Technically their build is bad and they make horrible decision and TM just get some luck with the block (36 Def SC build is the only one can actually block their attack but without MP steal they can Mass TM to dead)




goldslayer1 -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 22:20:38)

quote:

Technically their build is bad and they make horrible decision

with the wave of build copiers switching to CH i wouldn't be surprised.




Zeoth -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 22:23:24)

The smart people wouldn't lose to often to TMs no offense to the. Class it's great but CH wrecks it now




goldslayer1 -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 22:27:28)

did i mention CH can solo Armored Hazard?
that proves its power.
and i tried soloing with tlm before, and it couldn't do it.




xxmirxx -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 22:56:23)

quote:

CH is OP.
I said CH would be over power class b4 even delta Guess who right I am. I said this before staff always make bounty OP class always.




goldslayer1 -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/8/2012 23:03:51)

@mir
well i always said after the tlm nerf, mage and CH would be the top 2 classes.
i knew CH was getting a buff, but i didn't expect something huge like this.
i mean, even without the plasma armor before it was capable of 95% (i myself and others have done it)
i cant imagine what it could do now.




The Joker X -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/9/2012 0:50:29)

Not much was done to the mages. I hope we get a buff as well.




Gepard Acht -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/9/2012 1:37:04)

the wave of jumpers goes CH now and most have crappy builds, but sometimes a couple of them got me so this is getting quite annoying

CH needs a buff before, true but they didnt need anything this big so I hope the balance team will try fixing this




Lord Nub -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/9/2012 23:28:56)

@Asharis post,

Why is important information like this hidden? No where are we able to see how things really work except the wiki which is usually off and takes weeks to update.

When things are changed with updates like this it should be posted in a more public place so all the players are given the information.





Ashari -> RE: Merc nerf, how lovely. (1/9/2012 23:50:56)

@Lord Nub: The wiki is generally up to date, but I'll admit the class pages need some work. They're one of my top priorities-- I plan on redoing them some time this week to show all the skill information.

These numbers weren't ready at the time of the Design Notes posts, otherwise they would've been included there. For everyone's convenience, I'll include them in the Design Notes thread.




*Nova* -> RE: The Thoughts of the Changes (1/10/2012 0:10:55)

They finally gave TLM Blood Shield instead of Techinian. Problem is CHs are where TLM just were with a energy armor and a physical defense buff. (It's even better than techinian)




Algorithm -> RE: The Thoughts of the Changes (1/13/2012 2:15:01)

Static Charge >2<
Atom Smasher >2<
EMP >2<

spoiler:

Assimilate >3<




Rui.. -> RE: The Thoughts of the Changes (1/13/2012 2:27:53)

Cybers are fine at the moment.. u just need skill to beat them. i hardly loose to any cybers.

Mercs are awesome. 150 tech does 50 non crit and 72 crit damage on me ( i have 110 + dex)

Blood mages are pawning with the blood sheild .. take a look at prophets support build.. its just awesome.

Tact mercs yeah they had their share of fun.. now try something diff ... some new friggin strategy,.. invest more points on blood sheild or get a assault bot.

Mages need some love on the assimilation skill thats all i can suggest for them they pawn as it is .. i know it cause i am a mage

Bountys.. no comment.. their win just depends on who starts the game first.



overall the game seems balanced, it would be kinda good if the emp energy drain effectiveness could be reduced but yeah hell epic duel is much better than before :D:D





Stabilis -> RE: The Thoughts of the Changes (1/13/2012 6:46:20)

If you're not a real Ch put your hands up! If don't know how to use it put your hands up! If you wanted more power... GTFO.




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