RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (Full Version)

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Archlord Raistlin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 2:27:14)

@gold
well...it could replace reflex, and then you have no defense buff except for bot, like CH and resist. Doesn't sound that OP against physical opponents with smoke. Or, if you're already that OP, then replace bloodlust and see how it goes...

There are definitely ways to give everyone a passive armor without making them completely OP



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 8:13:38)

Wahahhahahha
Giving everyone passives is a TERRIBLE idea.
The classes that do not have a passive armor have great offensive power.
They make up for their defense with their offence.
Giving those classes passive will make them UBER OP.
Even if you replaced bloodlust.
Bloodlust doesn't give you 11hp a round, but a passive armor would save you it.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 8:47:52)

^

Would it really?

Mercenaries and Tactical Mercenaries have passive armour yet balance discussion today is not ranting about how overpowered these 2 classes are. Cyber Hunters are ranted about today, yet the synergy is the main cause; not just 1 skill.

I do however believe that compared to Reroute or Bloodlust, skills like Hybrid Armour or Deadly Aim may be considered stat advantages over other classes without these passive skills since for example a level 10 Hybrid Armour can save the user 48(approximate) stat points if using this passive skill to replace conventional stat points from leveling or enhancements. This may give the incentive to players of the class to sacrifice their Dexterity or Technology to exploit their Strength or Support without major drawbacks (excluding pure stat bonuses like deflection), and the opposite for players with Deadly Aim; Tech Mages may use a casting build with Deadly Aim to cover the fact that their main speciality in battle is tanking with skills.



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 8:50:37)

Mercenary isn't OP because it doesn't have HP or EP regen.
TLM Isn't OP because it's offensive skills are mostly meh....



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 8:57:31)

If you read what I said very very carefully, you will find that I have not stated that both of those classes are overpowered really.

(although overpowered being a relative term in the forums, we often say that the class with the greatest number of players is the overpowered class)

EDIT: *mischievous face*



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 9:08:51)

quote:

Mercenaries and Tactical Mercenaries have passive armour yet balance discussion today is not ranting about how overpowered these 2 classes are.

He meant that bit, and by the way you worded it, it sounds like you implied it. We don't need any excuses, you explained that you didn't mean it so no harm was done.

Anyway, since that thread has turned into all-out discussion and it's really all over the place, I'm not even bothered to suggest anything anymore thus 'retiring'. <.< Thanks for fun time, maybe Staff will consider some of our suggestions but I'm not bothered anymore. Will update my sheet once in a while if people will bother, but I'm slowly out of this section of the Forum for obvious reasons..



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 12:04:46)

quote:

Mercenaries and Tactical Mercenaries have passive armour yet balance discussion today is not ranting about how overpowered these 2 classes are. Cyber Hunters are ranted about today, yet the synergy is the main cause; not just 1 skill.


really? did u hear anyone say CH was OP before Plasma Armor was released?



ansh0 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 12:12:33)

My suggestions for CH

Make EMP cost about 2 more EP per level and make it tier 3, replacing plasma grenade.

Due to the increase in cost, bring back old static charge.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 12:15:44)

quote:

Due to the increase in cost, bring back old static charge.

and have heal looping tanks again?
i would be inclined to making static charge how it was before, if plasma armor was removed.
since the class proved to be good without plasma armor.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 12:47:45)

@Gold,

Yes, synergy. Static Charge and Field Medic is revolved around surviving. Plasma Armour is a quaint little aid to save stats in the race to achieve better durability. Without Plasma Armour there is less of a defence providing a Cyber Hunter the means of absorbing damage... enough so that they will survive long enough to use Static Charge... and ultimately, Field Medic. Unlike Reroute, Static Charge thrives on player damage to produce energy. Reroute only converts health, but Static Charge has infinite potential providing that the player endures long enough to use the skill. It is for this reason why Plasma Armour is benefitting Cyber Hunters bad synergy in the defence aspect allowing said players to potentially be immortal in any given battle.

If I have any spelling mistakes then my apologies I am using a phone to text.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 13:23:38)

@void
yes im well aware of how it works.

which is why plasma armor shouldn't be there.
CH already has good offensive capabilities. it doesn't need to tank.
and did good before plasma armor.

i remember doing 94% with str CH. and this was during the time when tlm was considered the most OP
i have seen other players get good ratios aswell. the addition of plasma armor never made much sense to begin with.



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 13:50:41)

@Gold
Well it only made sense to the balance team in the fact that the few cybers around were complaining about how they did not have a reliable passive. Soooooo they slapped a passive armor, the easiest and laziest solution to that balance problem.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 14:12:45)

quote:

Well it only made sense to the balance team in the fact that the few cybers around were complaining about how they did not have a reliable passive. Soooooo they slapped a passive armor, the easiest and laziest solution to that balance problem.

can it be really deemed a solution to a problem if said solution caused more problems?

people who did good with the classes (and i seen many) didn't complain about the lack of passive, because the class was doing good.
players just didn't understand cyber hunters.
its only reasonable that people complain and not like something they dont understand.



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 21:19:54)

@gold
It was seen as a solution to them, albeit a poor one but a solution to them all the same



liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 21:50:27)

quote:

Wahahhahahha
Giving everyone passives is a TERRIBLE idea.
The classes that do not have a passive armor have great offensive power.
They make up for their defense with their offence.
Giving those classes passive will make them UBER OP.
Even if you replaced bloodlust.
Bloodlust doesn't give you 11hp a round, but a passive armor would save you it.


I am a Cyber Hunter with a Passive Plasma Armor.
I meet a Bounty Hunter using Full Physical Weps
Oh, crap. Where's my 11 HP per round?

I am a Blood Mage with passive Bloodlust
I meet a * Insert Class here* using a mix of both P and E Weps
Cool, I still get HP back on hit :D



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/17/2012 23:45:33)

There are factors affecting bloodlust & passive armors.
Like if the person blocks you or has a defensive buff etc.



Nemesis30 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/18/2012 7:56:01)

Please Remove "Field Commander" (The #1 Useless skill in Epicduel) from Tactical Mercenary, and restore back Smoke Screen.



Luna_moonraider -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/18/2012 9:40:27)

@Nemesis30

that is not gonna happen tlms will nvr get their smoke back. if tlms want smoke their reroute will have to be removed. yes fc is the most well useless skill in game and i do agree the devs should remove fc and replace it with intimidate.

@ below

that is the build i m using. it is good to field commander your partner but only if u get good partner using a decent str build. it would be useless to field commander on yourself. unless u wanna skip a turn cause u wanna rage aux and it is not ready( i rather use blood shield cause no energy usage and it give ya a shield and well that the only function of blood shield to me)



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/18/2012 11:48:59)

'O'

Have any Tactical Mercenaries used Field Commander in a 2v2 Support build... because if you have, you will know that Field Commander can be used to great extents.

Try:

1 Field Commander
10 Reroute
10 Mineral Armour
5-10 Artillery
Remainder to Field Medic (do not exceed 5)

Maximize that Support stat, and the health count should be around 125 ± 15 (that means 110 to 140).

Field Commander becomes a cheap source for weapon backup. If you view Field Commander to be weak compared to Reflex Boost or Technician, we should discuss it here.



dark warrior31 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/18/2012 12:52:52)

@Luna_moonraider @Nemesis30 They really need to replace Field Commander with something more useful like Smoke screen,intimidate or my suggestion SMOKE GRENADE :D



Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/18/2012 19:46:11)

I think bludgeon needs a higher energy cost.



Whirlwindstorm2 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/18/2012 19:52:08)

@above- Agreed. I believe the energy cost should be scaled accordingly to double strike. Although bludgeon only outputs physical damage, it deals a slightly higher % more damage than double strike. This way, strength blood mages won't be able to spam bludgeon at a low energy cost, and tech mages who use the skill at level one will not be affected as much.

@ ND- If a reason for being so low of energy cost, I think that bludgeon can be pulled up to a higher tier on the BM skill tree, as points in bloodlust are a must for strength blood mages, and will not affect getting points to the skill bludgeon.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/18/2012 19:53:15)

@bloodknight The cost is fine. It's locked to Physical, has a longer cooldown, and is a higher tier than Double Strike.



Demon Emperor -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/18/2012 20:02:26)

@ND Mallet Guy
I agree. Bludgeon is so much worse than berzerker, it needs the small advantage of having lower cost.

quote:

The cost is fine. It's locked to Physical, has a longer cooldown, and is a higher tier than Double Strike.







Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/18/2012 20:02:37)

@ND,

All are reasonable points except for tier height. A skill may be as high as "tier 6" and require level 30, but for PVP's balance sake could never mean giving the skill power above other skills below it. If this is the hierarchy of skills then level capped players may as well all be using max level skills from the bottom of the skill trees. Players may assume that tier placement would infer the magnitude of a skill's power, but as far as Plasma Bolt compared to Surgical Strike goes, both have great power but the tier placement only determines the genre of skill (like basic attacks at tier 1 and ultimate attacks at tier 4).



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