RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (Full Version)

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5rr5 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 15:04:03)

To call yourself the best player you have to at least win everybody who is over lvl 32.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 15:22:25)

Thanks Luna O:-) I love my Tech O:-) I use Crystal Armblades, Cupids Sorrow, Delta Knight, and Machine Blaster with ALL enh on Tech. i maintain a really good 5 focus Tech Abuse moderate strength build XD



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 15:52:19)

Why not E Boomstick, Raynie?



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 16:02:55)

Calogero, and all the rest of you between 3:20pm and 3:26pm epic duel standard time I won 5 out of 5 2vs2 matches and one was by myself against a Level 34 tech mage and a level 32 merc. So that is 100% win ratio. How could I do that if I am such a bad player.

King FrostLich, I did not run I had connection lost and when I was your partner I had connection lost. Have you not forgot that many players was having connection lost after connection lost. It took them months to find the problem to the skipped turns and connection lost situation but it is taking longer for them to find the solution to their balance problem. No duh a Blood Mage have to have high strength to get high damage. Same with any skill, a Blood Mage have to have high tech to get high damage with the tech based skills. They need high dex to get high damage with Dex based skills. You probably don't know this since you are a tact merc.

When they moved deflection to tech the did not adjust the formula unless they did to a higher percentage but players with lower tech than I have is deflecting more often.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 16:18:48)

@ Hun

I was talking about your Total Win% ;)

also you didn't answer my ' Why Shouldn't I count Robot in my 5 Focus build ' question that you said to me...



King FrostLich -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 16:27:41)

quote:


King FrostLich, I did not run I had connection lost and when I was your partner I had connection lost. Have you not forgot that many players was having connection lost after connection lost. It took them months to find the problem to the skipped turns and connection lost situation but it is taking longer for them to find the solution to their balance problem. No duh a Blood Mage have to have high strength to get high damage. Same with any skill, a Blood Mage have to have high tech to get high damage with the tech based skills. They need high dex to get high damage with Dex based skills. You probably don't know this since you are a tact merc.


I know the difference between quitting a battle and a connection lost and I have experimented it by myself. When someone quits a battle via refreshing screen, logout, and being kicked by admin or closing the browser there is no lag. As in once you it happens while in combat, you're gone by split second. Connection lost by losing internet connection or unplugging the wireless connection ethernet cable will cause lag when you are about to disconnect from EpicDuel so please don't tell me I don't know the differences between them. And no, Blood Mage doesn't even need high strength if you want high damage. I was able to get 84% to 92% with a plasma cannon build in 2v2. I have already tried cyber hunter, blood mage and tactical mercenary and I know it's boundaries and weaknesses including the builds they need for them to work properly so please don't tell me that I don't know just because I'm a tact merc. I am a much older and experienced player in this game but I am not the best player.



fhiz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 17:11:49)

quote:

Fhiz, I am one of the best players in the game ask Nightwraith, Wiseman, and many staff that fought me and lost or fought with me and won.


I guess some people are too proud. Dude, you ran from my non varium tech mage in a 2v2 after both of our partners died.

quote:


Fhiz, when the staff does something as they did with the multis someone has to confront them on that especially when there is so many complaints about strength builds and only reason the rest of you don’t want to stand up to the staff and tell them what they did was wrong is because you are afraid to do so or want to brown nose for some unknown reason but me I have in the past debated staff and will force them to give me a logical reason why they did what they did.



I said nothing about multis or strength builds in my post so why is this directed at me? But I'll humor you anyway. The multis were nerfed because they were about the only way to be very successful in 2v2. It was done to create variety and so someone wasn't disadvantaged if they chose not to have multi. 75% was low, but 85% seems good to me and you can't argue with a lower energy cost. Why don't I confront the staff about what they did with the multis? It's because I thought it was a good decision, and at the end of the day, It's their decision, not ours.


quote:

Calogero, and all the rest of you between 3:20pm and 3:26pm epic duel standard time I won 5 out of 5 2vs2 matches


good for you.


quote:

2 vs 2: 80 with merc (could have been more but i only kept track of it for certain days)


^quoted from godslayer1

quote:

2v2 like 50 before support was nerfed on my tacmerc


^quoted from scarletreaper


And those are just a couple. found on this thread.


I'd like a non-Photoshopped picture of you're record to prove how 1337 you are.



5rr5 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 17:19:05)

What kind of builds do you think are the best in the game right now? According to me, str builds are still the best.



Digital X -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 17:31:06)

Kind of a hard one to answer, 5rr5. As everyone knows str builds can be, and are very quick killers but often do not have sufficient defences to withstand a barrage of attacks. Mercenary's are a little better off with str builds as their Hybrid/Mineral armour covers a fair amount of res and/or def. That being said though for Mercs, 6 points on each extra (including the armours) is not a great deal but still somewhat better than say a BH or BM which has neither. Granted you can throw up a decent shield for a few rounds which will greater benefit you than a permanent passive (taking in the amount of the defence gained at once), but wears off quickly plus consuming energy which could have been used to greater benefit yourself.

For example a heal, maybe a use of a stun grenade or maul perhaps. BH's do have the upper hand in str builds, as a higher smoke and somewhat high dexterity combination can be a pretty tough one to knock down (i used to be one, and it was pretty strong bar a couple of really high defence builds, or one with high atom/emp skills) I think it is about finding a happy-medium, a build that caters for both high str, but also incorporates a good amount of defence/resistance (where Delta Knight shines).



liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 17:51:17)

quote:

Calogero, and all the rest of you between 3:20pm and 3:26pm epic duel standard time I won 5 out of 5 2vs2 matches and one was by myself against a Level 34 tech mage and a level 32 merc. So that is 100% win ratio. How could I do that if I am such a bad player.


Yeah, I beat you twice in 2vs2. Once, you ragequit because I healed after I took damage from your aux. The other time, me and DeathGuard killed you. May not remember but my in-game name is Necro King ;)

Second of all, my low level (17) Merc just switched to a Tech Abuse build with Level 9 Bunker and level 7 or 8 Hybrid Armor (I forgot). Ever since I switched my build, I have kept up a win streak, at 22 right now. That means I have 100% win ratio, even though I lost a few battles with by old build, right?



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 18:22:15)

Calogero, due to the many months that connection lost was overwhelming on those weekends I had over 100 connection lost on the days I played and sometimes it happened when I was going to do a final blow and win the match. If it were not for connection lost I would have 10760 2vs2 wins, that would have been over %90 win ratio, but as many other players I have less. Just now logging back in I had two connections lost but thanks to automatic reconnection I did not have to re-login and if it was during battle they would be two more loses. To show use that it is a successful build refrain from using a bot, just skills and tactics. I use the bug bot special to try to take away the Cyber Hunter EMP, that is really getting annoying, malfunction, static charge, or massacre.

King FrostLich, no one knows the difference not even the staff knows the difference and when I was skipped that is when I knew that connection lost was soon to come. Now players know that pressing F5 over and over again causes skipped turns, slows down 2vs2, and sometimes freezes the match and the effect stays even after they leave. When a Level 34 tech mage was my partner, he told me I don’t like you bye and left then he logged back in just to show him how it feels to be abandon on the battle field I left. The third time we faced each other in 2vs2 I took him out then his partner and met him again and defeated his team again. The third time he faced me he ran, unless he had a connection lost. I consider you and many other players like Calogero some of the best players in the game and if Calogero could see if he could win many matches without the bot he could see that he is a very skillful player. Majority of 2vs2 matches I don’t even get to use the bot special because my team won the match in a blink of an eye. Only way you get that percentage with Plasma Cannon is on players with low tech and if you are malfunction the Plasma Cannon is basically a bb gun. I have experimented at every stat level with every skill and that is why I know that only stats at high level can get a Blood Mage any kind of match turning damage. A level 34 tech mage with nothing but beta weapons had high tech and with level 1 Plasma bolt he got 60+ damage and this was when I had 30-36 +5 +1 resistance and that is why if weapons have requirements then no weapon, from primary to Aux, should be exempt from requirements.

Fhiz, many matches I had connection lost as I wrote many times before and many of you ran I could claim when many of you was my partner in 2vs2 but I just figured it might have been a connection lost and many times just before the strike hit the player as the final blow I get a message connection lost. 85% reduction on the multis is still too weak and that is why in 2vs2 you maybe see 1 player out of 100 matches you see using a multi, then when they get 18 damage on one player and 20 damage on another wit high dex players state, that is sad, so that damage maybe good enough for you but for the rest of us that does not help win the match at the cost of 40 points of energy.

liy010, and I have beat you with one of my alternates but which one you will never know and I have been experimenting with different builds in the last month just to see the damage and how much damage I take in. I have defeated DeathGuard and you many times but as you see in any of my posts I have not rubbed it in your face. Try not using EMPs over and over on me next time and see if you can truly win but nonetheless this is about balance. You are the players the brought attention to how abusive the EMP skill have become and that is why a change is needed to that energy drain skill and any high energy drain skill.

I have learned to deal with the connection lost and accept the losses because of it but I will not accept the illogical reason what they did with the multis and no one here should. This far into Delta there is still balance issues, is unacceptable. The staff should know every time they make a change, formulas need to be adjusted, skills need to be rescaled, and one thing other than multis that need to be dealt with is the energy drain skills.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 18:52:55)

@hun And let me guess, you used a physical attack on that TM and one shotted him right? Because unless you purposely try to have everything into Tech and have a partner with a high Technician then there is no way you could possibly get hit for 60+ damage with those resistance numbers. 90+ damage potential on PB requires well over 200 tech to happen. I tested it out with all into tech and 61 tech boost and I only got to 85 potential damage with PB at level 1.



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 19:07:50)

quote:

I have defeated DeathGuard and you many times but as you see in any of my posts I have not rubbed it in your face.
Sorry dude but I must say I have met you only twice, the battle with liy010 and the other 2 vs 2 battle was minutes after and that you beat me. Haven't fought you more times.


@Fhiz: That made me rofl xD



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 19:18:18)

Apart from that, this is the main reason why I have no hope in this thread.. If we don't agree on balance or try to help each other with it, it'll surely end up as a joke as seen by few people's posts. It's nice to see Remorse being back though, someone nice to discuss with again. :) Although, it's actually good to see more people engaging in the discussion here than there used to be few months back - seems like more people are "smartening" up. xD



liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 22:36:38)

quote:

liy010, and I have beat you with one of my alternates but which one you will never know and I have been experimenting with different builds in the last month just to see the damage and how much damage I take in. I have defeated DeathGuard and you many times but as you see in any of my posts I have not rubbed it in your face. Try not using EMPs over and over on me next time and see if you can truly win but nonetheless this is about balance. You are the players the brought attention to how abusive the EMP skill have become and that is why a change is needed to that energy drain skill and any high energy drain skill.


I was not "Rubbing it in your face" I was simply pointing out that I had beat you before, which means you do not have a perfect, 100% 2vs2 record. Also, in the first time I fought your main, I'll admit I did EMP you but only for a low amount of 24 EP. You proceeded to use an Energy Booster and just Plasma Rained on us in the next turn anyway so I don't see how that affected you much. Please, don't even complain how EMP is unblockable because I staticed you in the next turn and it connected so even if I used Atom, I would've hit.

The second time with DeathGuard, I remember I did not EMP at all. I just went heads on Striking and Healing at times. I remember this perfectly because I was in the US (Crossed the boarder to visit friends), At a Wifi-Hotspot, My first 2vs2 battle in the US and I was battling with 2 people from the forums which I knew very well. I think I would remember .-.

quote:

I have beat you with one of my alternates but which one you will never know


That's just like saying "Hey, I buried $1000 somewhere here but I'm not telling you!" for all I know, I beat you with my alt who's name is "Picsoritdidnothappen"



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/22/2012 22:38:06)

@Luna and Raynie
Well , that's good news for ya guys , but the problem is that it sometimes leaves BH vulnerable compared to the current CH .



Luna_moonraider -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/23/2012 0:39:59)

lolz nice 1 trans XD *calls all the water benders*

@ Lord Aegis

bh have their blood lust and shadow arts as protection( most tech bh build use the 2 passives to help) plus u can always have more than 95 hp. hp can also act as a line of defense for tech bh.



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/23/2012 0:44:40)

@Luna
I wouldn't call SA a "protection" for anything because 10% Block isn't gonna help ya counter Casters and STR builds due to Block being luck-based .



Luna_moonraider -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/23/2012 0:58:56)

@ above

smoke destroys str build provided he/she has no debuff bot and u will almost always go first against them so emp and bye bye mass and skill. caster- emp kills casters. i wont use tech bh for 1v1 but in 2v2 and when u r the noobs being bashed up by jugs tech bh build is gr8.yes sa is based on luck but it helps to have it to lean against. smoke+ sa = blocking chance quite high as tech bh would have high smoke. problem here is debuff bot is so common now.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/23/2012 7:00:06)

Could someone summarise all the legitimate problems there currently are with balance? Currently I take the view that the main source of imbalance in the game stems from the vast gap between enhanced and non-enhanced players.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/23/2012 7:43:15)

Perhaps blocks and crits could be nerfed? Blocks could take out about 75% of a melee attack, and crits ignore 25% of defenses instead of 50%. Blocks should still take out more damage than deflections, else the tech stat progression will have to be rescaled, since apparently the sole reason why the tech stat progression is superior to the dex stat progression is because blocks take out more damage than deflections.



dark warrior31 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/23/2012 7:49:21)

Add smoke Grenade To TLM
it would be on skill list in SG
0-0-0
0-0-0
0-0-0
SG-0-0

It would take of Dex.
1. -10
2. -14
3. -17
4. -20
5. -25
6. -27
7. -30
8. -32
9. -34
10.-37
Improves with Support
Requires Tech



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/23/2012 8:30:25)

What about you Zeoth, I'm confused? :P And thanks Luna, had to say it. XD

Edit: Got back home, now I get what you mean. :P Well few people can behave themselves here and their suggestions are nice, they pretty much know who they are (it's more like obvious too) but some make really pitiful statements and expect to be supported by others by posting false information. :s



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/23/2012 8:43:30)

@King I think he meant that the Plasma Bolt did 60+ damage to him after resistances were calculated in. I already figured out it would take well over 200 tech since my 217 or so tech only got me 85 damage potential at lvl 1.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/24/2012 1:19:06)

The ND Mallet Guy, you are correct, the exact damage was 64 non critical, and just imagine if it was a strength blood mage with nothing but no requirement Beta/Alpha Weapons or any class with those weapons. Just imagine massacre with strength above the charts.

The balance problems are:
Weapons: Primary, sidearm, and Aux
Armors, Regular armors with passive armors have caused a great lack of balance between the Passive armor classes and the non passive armor classes.
Multis
Energy Drain skills
Deflections
Blocking
Debuffing skills
Reflex boost need a better energy return than 15% at any level
Health regain comparing to energy regain one gives too much the other too little

Massacre should be a Block-able skill

Blood Mages need a skill that boosts tech to counter act malfunction so they could use Plasma Cannon but does not improve DEX, you will see more variety of Blood Mage builds if this happens.

So when will we see the new Ultimate skills and the new multis for the new classes this phase or next phase?




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