RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (Full Version)

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shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 19:17:02)

So which passive are we replacing DA with? Nvm. I think SA would give blood mages too much block power with thier low dex.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 19:20:00)

New passive that raises critical chance by (.75% * Skill level) + 1 (Rounding) might be good. At max it would be 8%.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 19:20:36)

It's luck based and less reliable than DA. But low Dex and SA will be equal to like mid-high Dex only as opposed to Dex abuse and SA like CHs. Your "too much block power" is luck not real balance statement and luck is random.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 19:21:57)

@King Helios

But then there would be a few levels where adding a stat point to your new skill would not help at all.

@Trans

Luck is affected by percentages, although I guess percentages mean nothing in this game. So I suppose we could give them SA.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 19:23:25)

Well that's the point of passives. They aren't supposed to be must to train and nor make a major difference since they are passive not normal skills.



Nexus... -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 19:27:06)

I cannot support any passive that increases luck. That is going in the opposite direction of where we should be going. How about a passive that decreases the block chance of an enemy, increases your connect rate, decreases your chance to be deflected, or increases your stun resist?


Those sound great to me.



Prophet



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 19:30:34)

All of the ones you mentioned are luck based too, since even if you have say 20% to block, there's still luck involved. Probability is pretty much luck.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 19:30:50)

Level 1: 2% (1.75 %)
2: 3% (2.5 %)
3: 3% (3.25 %)
4: 4% (4 %)
5: 5% (4.75 %)
6: 6% (5.5 %)
7: 6% (6 %)
8: 7% (6.75 %)
9: 8% (7.5 %)
10: 8% (8.25 %)

Yeah, 3 levels. But still, it would be better than Deadly Aim, which skips 5? damage with a 35 dmg gun.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 19:31:18)

^I wonder if the staff can do .5%. [&:]



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 19:34:18)

It rounds up to 1% since engine does that with BL and decimal points with HP returned. So it'd need tweaking to make it whole or something.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 19:42:01)

I hope they do it with Bloodlust, or I could be at like 89.9 HP if i wasn't a TacMerc.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 19:42:58)

quote:

Critical Strike:

Critical Strikes ignores 50% of your opponents defense and resistance and deal increased damage. The chance to cause a Critical Strike is increased by Support.
[Formula] Chance to Critical Strike = 4 + (Support Advantage / 7)
The minimum Critical Strike chance is 1%.
The maximum Critical Strike chance is 20%.
quote:

Critical Strike Calculation
I want to first provide some details on how your chance to deal a Critical Strike is calculated. To approximate your odds, take the difference between your Support and the target enemy's Support. Divide that difference by 7 and add the number you get to the base chance of 4%.

Let's use these numbers as an example: Your Support - 64 Enemy Support - 20

The difference in Support here is 44 points. Now, divide 44 by 7 and you get 6 (after rounding). So your chance to inflict a critical strike now becomes 10% (4% base odds + 6% Support bonus).

Also be aware that while Support improves your chance to inflict a Critical Strike, it also reduces your Enemy's chance to inflict a Critical Strike on you! In the same example, your opponent's odds to inflict a Critical Strike are very low (the minimum chance of 1% actually). This chance is calculated by taking the base chance of 4% and subtracting your Support bonus (which in this case is 6%). Since 4% - 6% = -2%, the minimum chance of 1% is used.

Understand that a 10% chance to inflict a massively damaging blow is an enormous advantage. Consider this... if in your average battle, you live to see 5 turns, each with a 10% chance to inflict a Critical Strike, your projected odds of inflicting at least one Critical during the battle become about 41%.



Taken from the Wiki. So if someone was using King Helios's new skill at level 9, then the critical strike chance they would be gaining would be the same as a 56 support advantage against the other player. And 8% is very close to that 10% mentioned in the guide. Maybe that might be too much? Feel free to correct me.



Nexus... -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 19:46:27)

Raising crit chance is highly destructive, lowering crit chance isn't. Raising the critical chance means a BM with no support could Fireball somewhere near 70 with a nice crit, and do it pretty frequently (1/10 battles). Lowering crit chance of your enemy allows for LESS destructive luck in the match. Yes, it means someone who has more support than the other won't be as likely to crit, but it does mean that the match will probably go quite farely, and without any crits, blocks etc. Do you get it now Trans? This idea has the potential to raise destructive luck, while all of my ideas, lower destructive luck and make a fight much more likely to be fair (without any luck at all).


Prophet



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 20:07:35)

Edit my formula to (.5 * Skill level) +.5

Level 1: 1%
Level 2: 2%
Level 3: 2%
Level 4: 3%
Level 5: 3%
Level 6: 4%
Level 7: 4%
Level 8: 5%
Level 9: 5%
MAX (10): 6%

With a 6% Crit Chance, your chance to inflict a crit in 4 turns is about 22%.

This is not "game-changing" or "overpowered". About 2/9 battles is not that much.




shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 20:10:28)

^But then 4 skill points would be wasted trying to get to level 10, and 4 skill points is a lot.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 20:11:01)

DA works in the same way if you look at it. It doesn't always raise each Level so you know.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 20:12:38)

Gong to Level 10, 3 are wasted with little reward.

(With a 33-35 damage gun)



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 20:17:01)

DA doesn't stop increasing until around level 7; I think we should make King Helios's skill scale the same way DA does so that people don't need to max it out to get decent results.



King FrostLich -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 21:27:25)

What is with this balance adjustment for BM? Just improve fireball with support and you got a balanced blood mage already.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 22:21:34)

How about this:

Smash Boost: Gives an added boost to Critical Hit chances. (Far right 4th tier)

Level 1: +1%
Level 2: +2%
Level 3: +3%
Level 4: +4%
Level 5: +5%
Level 6: +5%
Level 7: +6%
Level 8: +6%
Level 9: +7%
MAX (10): +7%

Requirements:

Level 1: 25 Dexterity
Level 2: 27 Dexterity
Level 3: 29 Dexterity
Level 4: 31 Dexterity
Level 5: 33 Dexterity
Level 6: 35 Dexterity
Level 7: 37 Dexterity
Level 8: 39 Dexterity
Level 9: 41 Dexterity
MAX (10): 44 Dexterity

I think this is better.



Drianx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/2/2012 23:55:59)

^This would be overkill. Picture this, combined with high support and Infernal interdictor.
Not supported at all.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 0:08:25)

@King Helios

Maybe it would be better to have Level 9 stay at +6%, and adding slightly higher requirements(maybe starting at 27 or 28). Looks good overall, though. Still a little worried about BM's being OP even with this change, though. Especially if they're running Infernal Interdictor as mentioned above.



doomturtle -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 0:25:38)

Um blood mage strength builds will work just as well if they don't have deadly aim. They will do like 7 less damage without it. They will still be op.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 5:16:02)

7-10 damage less that's unblockable. If that's not a difference then what do you suggest? Major nerf to all the skills by the same amount? I mean it'll be like 7 damage less on the skill, they will still be OP. Difference is, Gun improves with Strength and is unblockable, and so is Fireball, so taking DA out would lower the power of unblockable Gun and Support requirement on Fireball (Strength on Bolt (TM)) wouldn't allow such a spam of Strength already since for max, they'd need like 42 Support.



Darkwing -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 6:48:24)

bm is not op, strength is op. if gun damage would be : 50% strength + 50%support( for example) = strength builds nerfed.
Also rage... str BM gets rage in 3rd turn? and they have low support.



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