RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (Full Version)

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GoldenNeo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 6:58:29)

It still would be best, if tactical mercenaries get their smoke screen back, 'coz I can see, that they're the only classes without debuffs. [8|] [I'm forever tactical mercenary]



Drianx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 7:00:24)

@darkwing: rage gain is indeed improved with support. But it is increased VERY fast if the opponent has tank defenses, regardless of your support.

generic example:

player 1: high str, low defenses, low support
player 2: low str, high defenses, high support

if both players attack each other, 1 will usually get rage faster than 2.



Arcanis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 7:10:36)

@Neo: Don't tacticals have intimidate?



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 7:12:56)

Has anyone ever noticed that Merc is both the most ignored AND UP class up to this time? It's getting irritating to see that nobody ever tries to take notice of it .



Cookielord12 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 7:13:06)

^No, only Mercs and BMs have intimidate



Arcanis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 7:15:54)

@Cookie: No wonder I haven't seen many of them lately then -.-



GoldenNeo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 7:27:01)

They always thought Tactical Mercs were OP, talk about Strength abuse CH's/BM's/BH's...
They kept nerfing Tactical Mercs until it became a dead class. :I I hope the next update will have a balance.



Sh4d0wMast3r -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 11:30:04)

I just realized you can't make a good 5 focus build as a BM cause of the noob EMP abusing CH's, 1 single EMP and you're as good as dead... and yet all you say is OMG NERF BMZ PLZ, how about they nerf that friggin emp???



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 12:14:24)

^I don't think BM's were supposed to have 5 focus builds, and EMP is the only counter against high-damaging, high energy consumption attacks like fireball, plasma bolt,bunker buster, and ultimate skills. And the last time we were updated on the balance tracker (right after the CH static charge nerf), CH's were completely in par with all the other classes, so I don't think CH needs a nerf right now.



Digital X -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 12:40:14)

@Shadow, i use a 5 Focus BM. Even getting EMP'd i am still able to retain a decent amount of HP left whilst surviving roughly the same amount of turns, and i barely heal for any build.



Rayman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 14:30:47)

Shadow: Focus BMs Pwn hard, its very good build. You just need to know how to do one. Thats it.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 15:02:27)

quote:

It still would be best, if tactical mercenaries get their smoke screen back, 'coz I can see, that they're the only classes without debuffs.

quote:

They kept nerfing Tactical Mercs until it became a dead class. :I I hope the next update will have a balance.

Define "dead". I can see players use it still and much more than original Mercs meaning it's not dead. Don't moan if you cannot abuse one stat anymore (Strength) and beg for Smoke back since it will NOT come back at all. Passive Armor + HP/EP Regen + Debuff - class can have only 2 of these skills, and TLMs have Armor and EP Regen. CHs are on par too since it's Armor and Debuff and if you point out SC for Energy - sorry you have Frenzy for HP so that's fair.
It doesn't need Smoke, it was OP with it so Devs aren't fools to give it back to you. Technician and Maul should be enough to "bring back" your beloved Strength abusers and still retain balance.

BMs don't need any major changes either, people don't see DA is the problem yet they deny it and tbh, people were right before Zerker was taken away - it was DA's problem not Zerker's so if they took away DA now and gave some good (new) passive, it'd be fine. Something luck based so it doesn't give fixed boost such as DA but not a major jump in power either so anything can do at this point. Shove Support requirement on Fireball and (I'll say it again) Strength on Plasma Bolt and we're dealing with 2 abusing builds at once and then we can take care of BHs and CHs. But why go roundabout method of putting Str+Support scaling on Fireball? They will need 42 Support for maxed Fireball so a bit more than they have now which will bring their Strength down and lead to lower damage. And lower damage + no DA will bring Str BM's power down. Other builds can do fine without DA since they'll either focus on defence or do jack of all trades and get a good base damage and DA would've been handy there but they can play without it.

Str BHs will be dealt with in due time. I spoke about it with one of the Devs and they may just take one skill out, CS, to reduce power of BHs a bit and give a new skill - Energy, improves by Tech, unblockable, similar to Bolt but may ignore some defence too - so it doesn't work with Smoke, they get unblockable attack, and get a decent Tech build since it's hard to get one for BHs. Pretty sure that won't be only change to Str BHs so we may see a bit bigger nerf probably on some other skill which may be Massacre; in reality, it can get better scaling of 10% per Level so it'll be weaker than now until about Lvl 6 where it'll be same as now and a bit better.



Naruto Uzamaki -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 15:09:39)

To be honest I would like to see feel skills get remove like deadly aim off blood mage.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 15:31:44)

Actually TLM has HP regain, passive armor, and EP regain.

They should just give TLM technician and buff stun grenade.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 15:39:22)

Well not exactly HP regen. People say CHs have debuff, EP regen and passive Armor yet TLMs only have passive EP regen and passive Armor. CH's EP regen is equivallent of Frenzy which means both classes have 2 of the 3 skills allowed which is fair. Technician + Maul or Technicial + buffed Grenade could work.



tgod -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 18:43:05)

Tactis are debuffed..... again and blood mages are left alone..... really?



suboto -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 19:03:25)

Tlm and merc need a buff to multi i did 112support and it was not even 70+



liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 19:59:13)

quote:

Has anyone ever noticed that Merc is both the most ignored AND UP class up to this time? It's getting irritating to see that nobody ever tries to take notice of it .


The thing that makes Merc UP is lack of an Energy/Health regain skill (Aside from the universal Field Medic)

Now, we can't just give it an EP/HP regain skill because that would wreck originality. Merc is suppose to be a class without HP/EP regain skills and if we did give Merc an EP/HP regain skill, it would make all Classes the same, 1 either HP or EP regain skill and 1 damage boosting/Passive Armor

As you can see...
BMs (BloodLust regains EP and DA increases damage)
BHs (Bloodlust regains EP and Smoke increases damage)
CHs (SC regains EP and Plasma Armor is a Passive Armor)
TLMs (Reroute to regain EP and HA is a Passive Armor)
TMs (DA to increase damage and Reroute to regain EP)

If you have a way to balance out Merc without giving it a Super OP/EP or HP regain, skill please, suggest it.



suboto -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 20:05:33)

Useful skills for tlm
passive armor
heal
double strike
frenzy
Useful skills for cyber hunter
heal
passive armor
malfunction
shadow arts
cheap shot
masscure
defmartix
Useless skills for tlm: stun nade atpmic smash blood shield(by far) toxic nade
useless skills for cyber hunter: only the grenade

With this being said tons of issues mostly that if u want to use the excuse of frenzy(being a heal regain) then change it to smoke and then equal to cyber hunters. That equals it all out




Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/3/2012 20:45:53)

^
So reroute, surgical strike, toxic grenade, and atom smasher are useless? Also SA isn't too useful.

Atom smash is one of the most useful skills in the game and toxic grenade goes through a tank like nothing.

Venom strike is kinda useless since it's 1 less poison damage, blockable, and requires a wristblade.



wolfhawk spy -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 1:01:12)

I think BM's do need some debuffs, though im a bloodmage. i used the last of my varium changing class to bm and have no enhances.i think they should give bm's passive armor, take away overload and replace it with something else. also, i think firebolt could be remved and replaced with a different type of move less OP. since i have no enhances, all moves i have are underpowered, my firebolt is 15+ damage weaker then most BM's.i hope they make more skills to make creating a flexible BM build possible.



Renegade Reaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 1:36:10)

@wolfhawk spy yes, lets give ANOTHER class a passive armor. better yet, lets give every class passive armor, so that its like we actually don't have passive armor. since every class having passive armor would negate the benefits of it. O.o

bm's definitely need a debuff, since I've seen them damage a ch (38+1 defense and a lot of tech as well) 70 in two moves. this is ridiculous. also for some reason bm's almost always go first even though they have super bad support. they block when you try to hit them even though you have a lot more dex, and somehow they can do that twice in a row. the majority of them have really bad resistance as well, and they manage to deflect a lot, but not get deflected as much. amazingly, they don't get too many crits though.. and don't tell me that this is luck, i have seen this type of thing way too often for it to be just random luck.

@suboto
quote:

Useless skills for tlm: stun nade atpmic smash blood shield(by far) toxic nade
stun grenade is gives a strategic edge in certain situations, though it is based on luck like so much of this game. atom smasher is extremely useful, especially in juggernaut. blood shield is useful, though not in a lot of situations, ill admit. as Mr. Black OP stated, toxic grenade is very useful for defeating tank builds.

~Renegade Reaper




RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 1:55:50)

quote:

The thing that makes Merc UP is lack of an Energy/Health regain skill (Aside from the universal Field Medic)

Now, we can't just give it an EP/HP regain skill because that would wreck originality. Merc is suppose to be a class without HP/EP regain skills and if we did give Merc an EP/HP regain skill, it would make all Classes the same, 1 either HP or EP regain skill and 1 damage boosting/Passive Armor

As you can see...
BMs (BloodLust regains EP and DA increases damage)
BHs (Bloodlust regains EP and Smoke increases damage)
CHs (SC regains EP and Plasma Armor is a Passive Armor)
TLMs (Reroute to regain EP and HA is a Passive Armor)
TMs (DA to increase damage and Reroute to regain EP)

If you have a way to balance out Merc without giving it a Super OP/EP or HP regain, skill please, suggest it.


Okay , i'll make some :

yes , like you said it , they lack EP Regen , but adding a EP Regen skill might not be enough , and if we add Reroute , it'll make them a Offense version of TLM , probably stronger . So i thought of these during my free time :
* Siphoning Rage - a skill that increase damage for 2 turns , 1 turn cooldown afterwards , activates again for 2 turns , w/o clicking and bases on amount of EP lost . Can be seemingly OP , but really , it won't be . Replaces Adrenaline . Requires 25 Support ( lvl 1 ) then +2 Support after .
* Adaption Armor - decreases the damage taken after getting hit by an attack . % of it will be the bonus . Probably not enough
This is an improved version of HA. Requires 16 Dexterity ( lvl 1 ) then +2 Dex afterwards .
*Blood Rage - Similar to Siphoning Rage but % of the 50% of the Health lost will be an additional damage for 3 turns, then 2 turns cooldown , and 3 turns afterward and so on . Replaces Adrenaline . Requires 26 Support ( Lvl 1 ) then + 2 Support for next levels .

These are the only things i can make yet , but i will be making more.
Notice that these are all passives , and besides , I don't think any of these will make them OPed since they're supposed to make them in Par with other classes that can get 95% win ratios .



GoldenNeo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 1:58:08)

Speaking of nerf, they even nerfed the TLM's poison. They removed 1 poison damage per level. .-.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 7:18:20)

@ Golden Neo


I believe that the 1 point in poison damage is coming back to level 35.


All skills nerfed (so far)


Field Medic
Hybrid Armor
Toxic Grenade



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