Exile last breath ? (Full Version)

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MrBones -> Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 6:55:03)

First, I understand this is war related but I believe this is a subject of it's own. If the AKs feel that it is not, please merge.

Now on with the discussion!

This is the second war. The first one was won by legion. While the frost war was going, and after, we saw alot of exile players switching alignment.

Now they raise the bar with this new war, adding cheevos for the winner. (Legion already have one). As players cannot change alignment while the war is going, will we see tidal wave going from exile to legion when this is all over ?

I believe we are in a critical situation for the game. If (and I say IF) legion make a clean sweep in this war, I think the exiles are doomed. Only a few will stay exile while the rest (95% of the player base) will switch to legion. War will become totally pointless.

What do you guys think ?



Jekyll -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 7:07:23)

That is what I have been trying to say all along, but I have only gotten unnecessary negative feedback from people, especially those in Legion. I have recommended that the rewards for breaking the vault be awarded to BOTH sides, with the losing side receiving a weaker version of the reward (1500 rating points --> 750 rating points). If Exiles win, same thing applies. I'm not being selfish, greedy or "going back on what was already agreed", as stated by some people.

In order to save this game, the devs MUST NOT allow this to continue.

There must not be a situation where players from an alignment do not get any recognition at all. If this goes on, trust me, we will see a mass migration of players, which will do absolutely no good to future wars. I hope this thread is not deleted, because it is accurate and spot-on from every aspect.



Oba -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 7:35:48)

I've thought of this aswell, and I think we should be having wars like this in the future, with rewards to the winning alignment. I'm not gonna switch to exile if they win this war..
Anyhow, I have a suggestion. I spoke a little about it in another thread but I think I can mention it here again :)

It should be a price for switching alignment - all the time!
Not a crazy high amount of credits/varium, but a little. So some players stop with this faction jumping.
During wars such as this it shouldnt be possible to switch alignment, no matter what. But after this war event I think it should become a small fee for switching to another faction in the opposite alignment.

Ex; Legion win this war and Exile players feel like they must switch to Legion *roll eyes..*

Now if a Exile player wants to switch to Legion, they would have to talk to a NPC called... lets say "Anonymous". He would have a feature there you had to pay, lets say 20,000 credits or 500 varium to switch alignment. Same story for the Legion players, obviously. But if a Exile player wants to switch to another exile faction, it would be no fee.



MrBones -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 7:58:32)

@OBA
I think the idea is good but I don't think it could work in-game. You have to take in consideration players getting kicked from their factions, creating new ones etc.. I dont like penalities or even negative rating cheevos.

The present war prevent players from switching alignement. I think this was a must as the developpers probably knew they would be outcries when the first cheevo was to be released.
If they had allowed players to switch while the war was still going, there would be no war at the moment, just legion knocking at the door.

As legion have already alot more players ( how much nobody knows) I think this might be the last genuine war if the Exile fail.



Oba -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:08:48)

quote:

You have to take in consideration players getting kicked from their factions


That is true, I had not thought of that. But if a player in the exile alignment gets kicked, he/she could join another exile faction just as it works today. It would only be a fee is he/she wanted to join a Legion faction.

quote:

creating new ones etc..


Well that I had not thought of either [:D] But if its possible to code, it could be like so that the fee wouldnt exist if the player decided to create their own faction. On the other hand, that would maybe cause alot of players creating their own factions instead of using the "Switch alignment" feature. Hmm.
The price to create a faction today is 15,000 credits or 300 varium. Maybe the switch alignment feature could be a little cheaper.

quote:

As legion have already alot more players ( how much nobody knows) I think this might be the last genuine war if the Exile fail.


If legion win this fight, I also think that many, many players will switch to legion in the next war. And how that is gonna get fixed, I do not know. Its not like we can give this war away to exile just to be kind, what would the point be with wars if its already decided whos gonna win and whos gonna lose?



Smackie El Frog -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:12:43)

Well Dbag I agree with you on most of what you say. And it looks like this might be the road we are heading down because the only way Exiles can win is with some developer input and we all know how much players hate that. But from looking at the experience from the first vault and how legion dominated with over 3M and I don't see why Legion would back off and fight less in the 2nd part. Which makes me think that the developers already have influenced the war. I mean look no ones taking a massive lead not exile or legion. That makes me really curious because it's so different from last week and it makes little sense because Legion should be even more rallied to win the 2nd part.

Anyways if that's what they have to do to make a 2 sided war work I guess we have no say in the matter.



liy010 -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:16:03)

@Oba well it is an online game...You could just give Exile one door and Legion take two (Assuming there's three) [:-][:-][:-]



Oba -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:21:15)

A online game or not, I dont see the fun in special events if its already decided whats gonna happen.

Only possible way I see out of this, is to make it like FPS games and other team-baised games. If Legion have more members, no more should be allowed to join until both sides have as many players.



Smackie El Frog -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:22:36)

@Liy

This is a game, this is not a charity. You know, I mean maybe one day Unicef will get into the online gaming business, but you know, until then you gotta earn it.



MrBones -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:23:09)

@Smackie

You could be right... The fact that the exiles are still in the fight is a bit suspicious. But let's not fall into paranoia mode. Maybe the exile are just very motivated by the cheevo.

quote:

If legion win this fight, I also think that many, many players will switch to legion in the next war. And how that is gonna get fixed, I do not know. Its not like we can give this war away to exile just to be kind, what would the point be with wars if its already decided whos gonna win and whos gonna lose?

It is a very good question indeed. I wonder how this can be fix..



8x -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:28:52)

Achievements mean a lot to a big number of ED players, it's perfectly fine that the first side to break through the vault gets extra rewards, but I think those rewards should be credits and battle tokens, not achievements.

quote:

Well Dbag I agree with you on most of what you say. And it looks like this might be the road we are heading down because the only way Exiles can win is with some developer input and we all know how much players hate that. But from looking at the experience from the first vault and how legion dominated with over 3M and I don't see why Legion would back off and fight less in the 2nd part. Which makes me think that the developers already have influenced the war. I mean look no ones taking a massive lead not exile or legion. That makes me really curious because it's so different from last week and it makes little sense because Legion should be even more rallied to win the 2nd part.

Maybe exile players are just more motivated to win this time and legion is confident that they will win, so they fight less. For Example, I did only around 10k damage on the first door and over 40k 80k (just checked my vault damage) on the second door (I also used all of my grenades).



Oba -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:36:06)

Yes I also believe exile are more motivated and so on, but I dont know if its possible to keep up with 3 million more? I hear alot of Legion players saying they fight even more now aswell to rank up faster before the war ends.



MrBones -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:40:40)

Let's focus on the conversation instead of spreading misleading rumors.

I think OBa had a pretty good idea about how to fix this problem:
quote:

Only possible way I see out of this, is to make it like FPS games and other team-baised games. If Legion have more members, no more should be allowed to join until both sides have as many players.



Smackie El Frog -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:42:54)

So what when you go to create and a faction you are forced do an auto assign instead of choosing either side when one side outweighs the other by a lot?



Oba -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:43:42)

Might not be the funniest idea and many would rage. But its the only solution I see, lol.



liy010 -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:43:51)

@DBag Would that be on a first come, first serve basis?

@Smackie no, not like that. When you swear alignment, the soldier would say "We have enough forces already. Thanks anyway!" and you would have to swear alleigence with the other side. You do not need to join a new faction though, you can be in a Legion faction and still fight for Exile.



Oba -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:48:03)

^ Yes, and no. Its like that on most online team vs team games. If one side have 11 players, and the other side have 5, its only possible for new players to join the team with 5.



Arcanis -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 8:56:56)

At the moment I logged in just few seconds ago,door was almost half breached on both sides,and hp difference was 1442 points. That if 50 fights of average 200 damage ,cca.
There could be several explanations how is this possible,however to seem that difference is only 1500 points compared to already dealt 15000000 damage makes only few plausible.
1. One side has many players,other has less but more active - highly improbable that numbers would match so close
2. Close enough numbers of players and activity of both side - possible,but then all wars would be as close as this one
3. Delayed display of current door hp allows bursts of advantages which are too short to be seen, for both sides,but that would also invoke need for already mentioned balance in player database.
4. War numbers are meaningless,they are manually corrected by devs to keep the intensity of war and sense of balance in players structure.
Sadly,last point i don't mean as a joke,if it were true it could just be their effort to correct the imbalance of war sides established during earlier war,and i really hope its just my paranoia.
However, "When you rule out all impossible conclusions,those that remain,no matter how unbelievable they may seem,must be true."
Not saying that conclusions are impossible, but (sadly) i have dealt with enough math through college to know that probability of some of them is seriously close to 0.
No offense meant to devs or anyone with this, after all,even all displays could have a bug or something, not to mention i really don't have all the data for needed calculations,its just my favorite saying:

"Once is accident, twice is coincidence, third time its act of enemy"



ND Mallet -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 9:34:35)

People are always so quick to blame the Devs for just about anything. I personally think that the reason it's so close this time around is that both sides are full aware of their potential, and that they both want this cheevo. Exile did manage to clear out the last million or so health on the 1st vault in about an hour to get just an armor. Imagine everyone's motivation this time around with the possibility of another cheevo as well as new guns.



MrBones -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 10:18:47)

I agree with the Mallet.
(Although I would like to have your opinion on the subject matter instead of complaining about the complainers)

This thread was not create to have false rumors and mislead players thinking the war is rigged. I would like forumites to refrain making this kind of insinuations.

This thread is about the unbalance in players numbers from both sides. Stay on track !

Let's keep the conversation moving forward, let's keep this thread open.

Thanks to all



Arcanis -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 10:46:41)

My apologies for being a bit off topic.

But i do like to have things clear:
If player numbers are balanced, then it contradicts idea that most people joined legion side after last war,because legion would be more dominant if nothing else then in numbers.
If current players base is unbalanced, then how come the war numbers are so close, law of big numbers would prevail?
And no ,ND, i'm not blaming devs for everything, but neither you or me created this game, and when something seems to be just a bit odd, i am sure as hell going to look at them.



Calogero -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 10:55:39)

You know what this reminds me of

MechQuest.
In that game, WolfBlade has the most players followed by MystRaven and slacking behind RuneHawk...

What did they do to lessen the impact of the ' Numbers ' game? They gave WB a bigger amount to reach compared to the other houses. I'm pretty sure something like that was done with this war because noone can convince me
that after us beating the first vault with +3 million lead, ALL of the sudden it's a neck on neck race...

Not buying it



Nightwraith -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 11:05:31)

It might be surprising to know that total numbers of Legion and Exile players are about the same. However, on the first Vault door we saw much stronger participation from the Legion side. Another tipping point was when we allowed 2v1+NPC matching. Legion seemed to break away after that change as more active Legion players waiting for battle would make them more likely to match against an Exile player + NPC, but that scenario has since been corrected. The tighter numbers may be a result of that, but there are many variables that may also be contributing. Also, conducting the war in phases or "rounds" has kept the scores from running away to insurmountable numbers like we saw with the Frysteland War.

As for the main question posed by the OP, we have interesting scenarios planned for an Exile or Legion victory so I don't suspect there would be the massive exodus that you are predicting.



Cinderella -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 11:15:24)

If I may add: if we were artificially controlling the war, then why am I scripting out two alternate endings?



nico0las -> RE: Exile last breath ? (7/12/2012 11:25:07)

We also have to observe the facts as to why this probably won't happen.
First and foremost, there are a LOT of players that have been loyal to the Exiles for generations. These are more notably older, more experienced and more influential players. Also, Exile wins the daily alignment war more frequently than the legion. Seeing as there is an achievement (or two, I suppose) related to your factions influence (world domination and flag capture), players will remain and/or join up with the exiles for the sake of the achievements and bragging rights. Lastly, and maybe the most important, the strongest factions in ED history have been Exile (or at least 3 of the top 5, these being Legion Kings, CaD and DSX). There are outstanding Legion factions as well, Evil Council, ED war Tribunal, MEGANET to name a few, but the show stoppers are Exile. Players want to win, and seeing as these super-factions are Exile, they will join up as well.

So in a nutshell, players won't switch out of some (misplaced) sense of pride/trust that the Exile will pull through. We have proven TWICE this is not the case, but old habits die hard.
In conclusion, players won't switch because Exile has a lot more to offer (not in a question of rating points, so much as in opportunity), and that's why it remains, and will remain well populated.

However, their war skills are questionable at best... they're not good at it ;)



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