RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (Full Version)

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Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 15:43:59)

WHy don't we revert to Gamma balance?

Focus/Heal-Looping Tech Mages, Focus/STR Bounty Hunters, Focus/STR/Supp Mercs. We all complained about it, but we dealt with it and it was very fair...

What's the forum flavor of the month? Should we nerf xxx, buff yyy, and keep zzz the same?

I see arguing with no real statement...enlighten me [:D]

Personally I think STR BH is somewhat OPed, but IDC. Just buff CH.



Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 15:50:35)

For the love of god, don't buff CH
Especially not reverting Static Charge back to normal

I say:
Nerf: Strength
Buff: Nothing really
Keep: A lot the same



Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 16:09:22)

@Blaze: So Static is basically: Strike, even when I can aux/bot, with the bonus of getting 3 energy back...



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 16:13:14)

^
Exactly. It is not even worth the skill points you have to put into it. If you get 12 energy back then you are pretty much fighting a noob so you end up not needing it anyways or you get a critical and still can't really do anything with it other than EMP or cheapshot. Here's the funny part, it is still blockable. [8|]



Metallico -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 16:57:44)

IŽd say that blood mage should not have bludgeon because they can do a really high damage with a very low energy, with berserker atleast they used to need like 45 energy for do +75%, now they need 28 for do +50% damage.

IŽd suggest double strike for blood mages.




Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 17:02:44)

But Metallico double strike is yet another move powered by strength, and even if you did do this they can still get the same result of damage at max only for 3 more stat points which If I know them they will take from dex tech and support (1 each) which won't make that much of a difference.



The Astral Fury -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 17:20:05)

Blood mages need to lose deadly aim or blood lust and be replaced with another skill that will still support the class so it's balanced. Also for TM's give plasma bolt a stat requirement, leave it's EP cost alone and make it increase every 4 tech instead of every 3. And maybe reduce Super charges damage a tad little bit.



Rayman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 17:20:47)

^
Just Deadly aim.



The Astral Fury -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 17:24:28)

Yes OMG I'm scared now when they whip out they sidearm. I literatly chant DEFLEC DEFLEC, but it dosen't seemd to work.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 17:58:16)

Dragonman what would you suggest replacing deadly aim with for BM? Remember before you can even think about taking away a passive you need to replace it with another. None of the current passives would be a good fit and would OP BM even more. Plus while BM can make Deadly aim stronger with str builds, what about TM? They now only have the same passive, but they can malf making the deadly aim ability even stronger if using an energy gun? Does this mean we need to take away deadly aim for TM as well?

Also with Supercharge no since it is on par with surgical strike with the way it improves. Otherwise one ultimate would be stronger then the other which isn't very balanced.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 18:27:37)

Adrenaline ^^



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 19:29:14)

Nope BM get rage faster then most other classes especially str BM. Last thing they need is to get it even faster hence the reason why I said it would overpower them.



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 20:23:39)

How about if Deadly Aim cannot be applied when a BM's strength is above a certain amount? If the gun's highest damage is 60+ without Deadly Aim, it cannot be boosted by Deadly Aim.



Metallico -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 22:06:42)

AND WHY NOT REPLACE BLUDGEON WITH ASSIMILATION...



zippinbolts -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/30/2012 22:36:34)

Ya'll had assimilation. The community whined UP and you got Reflex instead.



Nub Apocalypse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (10/1/2012 1:59:20)

quote:

Nope BM get rage faster then most other classes especially str BM. Last thing they need is to get it even faster hence the reason why I said it would overpower them.

It isn't possible to get rage in two hits, it would take at least 3 which means rage will be at Round 4, which is pretty much the round where either a Str BM wins or loses (due to their high dmg, low def, and the fact that massacre from opponents are ready at round 4). It won't make much of a difference, Adrenaline is a skill only beneficial in slightly extended battles. And even if we're using the scenario of a 5 Focus BM (which Adrenaline may be more suited for), I highly doubt they would last for 2 rages, meaning the only benefit of Adrenaline is bringing one rage to one earlier round. If they had Deadly Aim however, assuming the player is an experienced one and knows to use their sidearm the first round to make the most out of Deadly Aim by being able to use it once again in Round 4, this would equate to an additional 18-20 dmg in a game (seeing how most BMs use level 6 or level 8 DA). This amount of damage, IMO is far more overpowered than simply being able to rage a turn earlier.



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (10/1/2012 2:11:02)

Strength BMs are pretty vulnerable to luck. If they do not kill you within their 1st rage, most of the time, they are cooked. I won a battle where I went against a Strength BM. His rage gun got deflected and he had low HP, so I won since I was able to deal damage that would kill.



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (10/1/2012 4:10:21)

quote:

It doesn't force 5 focus, it forces not str abuse

And I would also like to see the high lvl bounty hunter battle tracker

It does force other stats to get higher, because no one really wants to get blocked all the time. So you'd generally see players with around 45 Strenght, low Strenght stat modifiers and other stats would probably be around 45, so that they can have a varied range of strong attacks, plus the Bot.




Bunshichi -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (10/1/2012 4:12:38)

so when a person uses field commander or blood commander.....blocks?



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (10/1/2012 5:42:01)

how to make deadly aim less op, the only way to make deadly aim and strength bloodmages less op is to make a energy cost version of deadly aim, so it costs 10 energy at max level each use so its not a passive anymore because the only thing that makes them so op is that they now have 2 must need skills which 1 of them cost too less energy to deal such high damage and 1 of them which it deadly aim cost no energy at all. and replace plasma rain or other unpopular skill with a new passive which is called "no name yet" it increases 1 or 2 damage for gun and primary for every deflection and block, so they will b encouraged to have moderate strength and have balanced stat points to b able to inflict a block or deflection. and almost all strength or non strength bloodmages invests almost no energy points at all so they can have more stats than other strength builds to they get to have more health and points to their other stat. and that would then make bloodmages think bounties will b more powerful than they are and the way i think that should still make strength builds still have equal chance in winning is that the more strength u have the more u are vulnerable to debuffs because the higher the strength the more ur defence and resistance fades away so its like a strength monitoring feature like agility, so at 26-30 strength their resistance and defence would go down 5-7 points. and all strength hunters use massacre and rarely i see a focus hunter use massacre so decrease the % more damage at lvl 1 to 40% and gains 8% each level maxing at 112% more damage and to not let it affect cybers cybers will need a different version of massacre a physical version of original massacre so its a unerfed version well maybe it could b nerfed a little but its not too op bcus it doesnt add more damage with malf bcus its a permanent physical damage ultimate skill.
please comment or have a feedback to wat u think of my idea to balance strength bloodmages and boutyhunters.



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (10/1/2012 6:35:10)

quote:

so when a person uses field commander or blood commander.....blocks?

Obviously, which would make the buff rather stupid.




Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (10/1/2012 7:24:02)

Nub Apocalypse I have seen some Merc rage on turn 3 with Adrenaline which isn't a pretty thing. Remember BM rage real quick because that have high strength and are attacking armor plated (Meaning characters which high defenses) targets. Adrenaline would just boost that big time. Also did you forget about the other moves hey have with strength? Even if they don't use deadly aim the nerfed fireball with rage can do 40-50 damage and the bludgeon packs a punch as well. So even if you took away deadly aim for adrenaline it would still be a bad call.




Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (10/1/2012 9:21:06)

@ Trizzz

Why take such drastic measurements?
Deadly aim only works every 2 turns.

Same with this Firebolt Nerf, it didn't do much due to the problem being STR and not FireBolt.

Give STR a decent nerf, not to big so that Tanks don't become unbeatable, and you'll fix every STR Abuse build that every class has



Drianx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (10/1/2012 9:26:14)

quote:

Why take such drastic measurements?
Deadly aim only works every 2 turns.

Because most fights only take about 5 turns. Unlike Beta, when you could easily see fights lasting until the 3rd Rage. Not only Str is to blame, but the general balance between damage and defenses.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (10/1/2012 9:29:10)

I think destroying Deadly Aim would be the end for BloodMages due to not having an enery regain whatsoever.
Not only would you nerf STR BMs, but you'd nerf any other build that uses DA aswell




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