RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX


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6/16/2012 14:41:37

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Agility was put to stop high HP builds which were abusing a stat.

i dont think hp had anything to do with it.

high HP builds are fine because ur sacrificing offense and defense for putting points into hp.
i dont wanna reach lvl 40 and still be forced to have 95 hp because if i dont, then im loosing defense. it makes no sense.

plus, i think u forgot, agility was put as a band-aid to stop 1 build. not every build.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/16/2012 14:45:26 >

Post #: 226

6/16/2012 14:48:48

Ranloth
Banned

Erm.. So why do you get Def and Res penality for high HP? Another one of those childhood mysteries I suppose? Or perhaps common sense.

And sure it makes no sense - some players are proposing scaled Agility which changes by Level which is best solution since you wouldn't be forced to have 95 HP and +1 Def/Res but maybe 110 HP instead. And forced, wait what? Are you that discouraged to go to 110 HP because you lose +1 Def and Res? You're not forced but taking in +1 more damage (2 total from Def and Res) at cost of 15 more HP. I don't see a big loss here, allowing yourself to take in 13 more damage total but not doing it since you're losing +1 Def and Res. e.e

Edit:
I forgot? I do mention high HP builds, which can be adjusted for every class to fit their play style. Sure say whatever you want, both are right just different wording of it or understanding (or both).

< Message edited by Trans -- 6/16/2012 14:50:06 >

AQ

Post #: 227

6/16/2012 14:52:40

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

So why do you get Def and Res penality for high HP?

because every stat point i put on hp, is 1 less stat point i put on str, dex, tec, or support.

logic (not common sense, because its common, and to be quite honest, the common person... nvm) would tell u that if ur being penalized in stats already for putting points in hp. u should not be penalized further.

and yes, i am that discouraged.

but whats the point of keeping agility now? enlightenment me with ur common sense.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/16/2012 14:54:15 >

Post #: 228

6/16/2012 14:56:46

Ranloth
Banned

What's the point of keeping it? To keep enhancements steady and not make them even more game breaking than they are now. If it wasn't for enhancements, there would be no agility since you cannot abuse one stat and then abuse other stat (possible with enhancements now).

Glad you love my common sense, surprising from you, or maybe not.

AQ

Post #: 229

6/16/2012 15:03:22

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

What's the point of keeping it? To keep enhancements steady and not make them even more game breaking than they are now. If it wasn't for enhancements, there would be no agility since you cannot abuse one stat and then abuse other stat (possible with enhancements now).

Glad you love my common sense, surprising from you, or maybe not.

i guess common sense is common indeed.

so by ur logic, ur saying keeping HP low, so that u stack more stats and enhancements in str, dex, tec, and support, is somehow not worse than having no agility, with high hp, reducing the stats used for for str, dex, tech, and support.

perhaps u should read a suggestion i made in the past.

quote:

Items
- i would change the Enhancements system that ED has and make it one thats more like AQWs. this would allow full gear customization.
meaning i could get default weapon, and turn it into a lvl 34 weapons with its respected stat depending on the enhancement type.
- changes to the enhancements from var to non var would be made so that non vars have a better chance.
a scale for this would be
lvl 34 Varium enhancement for primary = weapon has 34 stats and 34 damage. (+2 stats if the weapon is a sword)
lvl 34 varium enhancement for side arm and aux = 24 stats and 34 damage
lvl 34 varium enhancement for armor = 24 stats and armor def/res be decided on a formula. like 34 / 4 = 8.5 round up to 9 def/res from the enhancement.

lvl 34 non var enhancement for primary = 30 stats 34 damage (+2 stats if its a sword)
lvl 34 non var enhancement for gun and aux = 20 stats and 33 damage.
lvl 34 non var enhancement for armor = 20 stats and def/res be decided by a formula of 34 / 5 = 6.8 round up to 7.

the forumla for this is very simple, for variums, primary is 1 stat and 1 damage per lvl (with the exception of sword)
for gun and aux, its 1 stat per lvl, -10. and 1 damage per lvl.
and for the armor its 1 stat per lvl -10. and the defense and resistance is decided by ur lvl of enhancement. in this case, since its 34, and a varium enhancements. devide 34 by 4, and round it up and thats ur def/res for the enhancements.

for non vars primary its 1 stat per lvl -4 (-4 is for it being a non var enhancement) and 1 damage per lvl
for aux and gun its 1 stat per lvl -10, then -4. and 1 damage per lvl -1.
for armor 1 stat per lvl -10 -4. and the def/res is the enhancement lvl devided by 5.

this would ensure that non var vs var is better balanced. non vars would only be 16 stats behind (assuming they have full gear), 2 def/res (for now atleast) behind, and 1 damage behind on gun and aux.
now, of course there would be a full scale for this on every lvl.

and the reason why something like this should be implement is, u could use ANY weapon u wish to use.
allowing us to fully expirience the Art that the game puts into weapons. because as u all know, alot of low lvl weapons look good, however they aren;t suitable for competing environment, so they aren't very used.
this system would eliminate that, and give players full customization of the game.

another issue with this would be balancing. (while i know the staff have no say in the prices, here is my suggestion anyway)
the enhancement prices for varium should be (L = the lvl of the enhancement
for Primary: L x 20 = enhancement price
for aux and gun: L x 15 = gun and aux enhancement price
for armors: L x 20 = enhancement price

for non vars credit enhancements
Primary: L x 1000 = non var enhancement price
for aux and gun: L x 800 = non var enhancement price
for armor: L x 1000 = non var armor price.

i did have an idea of having an option to buy varium enhancement but with credits. a huge load to be exact. like
L X 2000 credits for primary and armor
and L x 1800 for aux and gun.

do u see what i did there? = lowering stats.

and to give u a little extra.
remove agility
put field medic back on support
and allow field medic to be only used ONCE per battle.
and my suggested scale (since its only once per battle) is to put the same old scale it had before.

there, problem solved, no more tanks healing 3-6 times a battle. and it buffs support stat since they desperately need it.

and would allow more counter builds against tanks that doesn't consist of putting points into str. but by putting points into hp and out surviving the tank.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/16/2012 15:05:00 >

Post #: 230

6/16/2012 15:10:51

Ranloth
Banned

They plan to put small scaling back to Heal, was in Livestream FAQ but aren't fully sure about it yet so we can hope for best. And less scaling than before. But I refuse to make it useable only once per battle, I'd rather have no scaling and way it is now rather than full scaling but once per battle.

As of your enhancements suggestion, I was actually for it before and liked the concept of it since they'd be more affordable by players at all Levels (if we go by prices too), and it makes sense to give them lower price and advantage rather than pay same price as Lvl 34 character and get that advantage 'taken away' since you Level up quicker earlier on thus wasting Varium. Now I remember that it was me also talking a lot about it once, I believe in one of the old Threads, since I was for the idea.
Also there was discussion that Staff may take away Agility but that was few months back, maybe 2 or 3 even, so it's hoping for a miracle. We were supposed to get another stat decaying to stop abuse, but that was December/January so yeah.. Trusting on someone's words and hoping it'll happen doesn't work out here.

AQ

Post #: 231

6/16/2012 15:17:09

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

They plan to put small scaling back to Heal, was in Livestream FAQ but aren't fully sure about it yet so we can hope for best. And less scaling than before. But I refuse to make it useable only once per battle, I'd rather have no scaling and way it is now rather than full scaling but once per battle.

why? does it cripple ur class? perhaps if this was done, then maybe CH wouldn't been deemed "OP" and static would have probably not been nerfed, since the only thing it was good for, was constant energy pool so u can heal. but if u could only heal once, shouldn't be much problem.

i really dont get why ur so against it.

quote:

As of your enhancements suggestion, I was actually for it before and liked the concept of it since they'd be more affordable by players at all Levels (if we go by prices too), and it makes sense to give them lower price and advantage rather than pay same price as Lvl 34 character and get that advantage 'taken away' since you Level up quicker earlier on thus wasting Varium. Now I remember that it was me also talking a lot about it once, I believe in one of the old Threads, since I was for the idea.
Also there was discussion that Staff may take away Agility but that was few months back, maybe 2 or 3 even, so it's hoping for a miracle. We were supposed to get another stat decaying to stop abuse, but that was December/January so yeah.. Trusting on someone's words and hoping it'll happen doesn't work out here.

i been suggesting this type of enhancement since beta when they were first coming out.
idk who came up with this kind of enhancements. but its not very good.

it forces the game to constantly come out with new weapons every week.
with this system, u could use ANY weapon and make it of ur lvl. allowing more customization in the game.

for example, ill use frostbite as an example.

those claws are to me, the most beautiful claws in the game, but whats the downside?
its lvl 32. so i cant use it like a lvl 34 weapon because im at a disadvantage.

now with this enhancement system, i could make it lvl 34. and be able to use it.
the same thing goes for armors, guns, and auxes.

Post #: 232

6/16/2012 15:26:01

Ranloth
Banned

To clear it up - Static was nerfed due to Plasma Armor. And yes it cripples builds, not one but many, since Support builds will get bigger advantage whilst other classes will be played for suckers resulting in significantly lower heal; somewhat same as now but limited to once per battle.
Looping is the problem here then, this can be done by longer cooldown really. And the looping is in favour of 3 classes that can get EP back, others are kinda falling behind on it.

And adding to your suggestion - I believe it'd allow players to also buy new weapons and not suffer cost of 2-3K Varium per item (buying an item + enhancing it, unless you're rich on Credits).

@below
Massacre will NEVER be made blockable. It's Ultimate skill, they are meant to be unblockable even with their skills. If that happens, SS and SC have to be made blockable too so it's fair. Sure Mass does higher damage but it has no additional effects such as Rage drain, HP steal or ignoring defences. :)

< Message edited by Trans -- 6/16/2012 15:28:42 >

AQ

Post #: 233

6/16/2012 15:26:25

Hun Kingq
Member

Balance in this game is beyond sad it is pitiful.

Blocking needs to be seriously looked at, players with a lot lower dex is blocking more than players with high dex.

Due to multis be weakened to being the most leased used in the game I have seen strength builds in over 90% of the 2vs2 battles I have done so far today with one account.

Intimidation cannot take enough strength away at max to make a difference so for the Blood mage class, that class needs a new unique debuff skill.

For Aux I have notice it is giving base damage not the weapon damage, that needs to be looked at.

EMP, too powerful for energy drain, yes it is , when at Level 3 takes away 44 points of energy, Cyber Hunters have abused that skill more than the Bounty Hunters especially in 2vs2 when they take away energy up to 4 times from one player especially the Player that don't have energy regain. So Hunters you brought that upon yourselves.

Massacre needs to be made blockable since the Hunter classes have a better chance at blocking than any other class and with Cyber Hunters having malfunction giving another reason for it to be made blockable.

Berzerker I used to block quite a bit but in all 2vs2 matches I did not block once and I had higher dex.

Delta Armor, is not good for the non passive classes because for those classes +5 defense/resistance makes it feel like they are wearing low level armor and against level 30 and up it really is not adequate primary protection.

Deflection needs to be adjusted because every turn seems like there is nothing but deflection reducing the weapon damage to a point it is like a high level weapon gets less damage than a low level weapon.

When it comes to balance nothing should be left out from weapons, which includes Alpha and Betas, to skills.

Epic	Post #: 234

6/16/2012 15:32:31

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

To clear it up - Static was nerfed due to Plasma Armor. And yes it cripples builds, not one but many, since Support builds will get bigger advantage whilst other classes will be played for suckers resulting in significantly lower heal; somewhat same as now but limited to once per battle.
Looping is the problem here then, this can be done by longer cooldown really. And the looping is in favour of 3 classes that can get EP back, others are kinda falling behind on it.

i dont see how a longer cool down is gonna help.
EVERY class is going to be affected by this, mainly being tlm, tech mage, and cyber hunter.
but u make it seem like those classes have no other alternative in builds.

with a heal once field medic that runs on support, it stops heal looping completely, gives support a buff, and classes dont have energy regains, can use support as a viable build more effectively.

tell me, how often do u see a support merc, tech mages, or BH?
one that has like 120 support 95 hp, low energy, only enough for multi and then have low defense?
while right now CH can tank, regain energy, heal loop, and if it doesn't need to heal it can go with offensive skill sets by regaining energy.

quote:

And adding to your suggestion - I believe it'd allow players to also buy new weapons and not suffer cost of 2-3K Varium per item (buying an item + enhancing it, unless you're rich on Credits).

alright then, ur common sense has inspired me to write a more detailed post on this topic.

quote:

Due to multis be weakened to being the most leased used in the game I have seen strength builds in over 90% of the 2vs2 battles I have done so far today with one account.

yes multi were huge problems.
sadly tho, the biggest nerf was for merc.
artillery strike relies on support, a stat that has been nerfed several times.
they took deflects away from support, and field medic no longer works there.
then they nerf multis.
but failed to realized that artillery strike, is the only multi that doesn't rely on a defensive stat.

CH and tech mages were "abusing" the multi by having HUGE defense thru stats that powered the multis, and the capabilities of regaining energy. but artillery didn't need a nerf, because when u use high support, u almost have no defense. its a big difference.

i should also point out the deflection change to a defensive stat was probably worse.
u use tech to recieve less damage. now with high tech, not only do u take less damage, but u also have the chance of that damage being cut in half. as if the tech tanking wasn't bad enough.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/16/2012 15:37:55 >

Post #: 235

6/16/2012 15:40:25

Ranloth
Banned

It stops looping for 3 classes, Mercs, BHs and BMs cannot loop effectively and it's in favour of Support builds only. And buffing a skill isn't a buff to the Stat, this is a skill not a stat you're talking about - yes Heal is universal skill but power of stat isn't powered by skills because some classes have advantage in certain stat; could be like saying X stat is OP for Y class but isn't for Z Class.
Also glass cannon builds could end up better or classes with BL since they get passive heal that isn't limited, yes lower but with no Support you would waste Energy on low Heal with low Support. Also Support is equivalent of AQ's Luck stat, shouldn't be a build on its own at all since it's all about luck with the stat.

Lolwhut? 95 HP and 120 Support resullts in low defence? I can pull that with moderate Defences, or go for a bit less Support (a bit over 100), 124 HP and quite decent defences as well as strategy to cover weak points. Although that's as TM, so a bit biased on this.

Last sentence: Not sure if agreeing or trolling.

If you think about it, Deflections back in Support would solve the problem of Support being weak and solve Tech tanking which is a pain and abused by certain classes.

< Message edited by Trans -- 6/16/2012 15:41:41 >

AQ

Post #: 236

6/16/2012 15:46:17

Xendran
Member

quote:

100k credits is actually far too high, what i actually propose is this.

32*60 = 1920. 60 wins per minute, this is some seriously hardcore farming. A player should be able to buy a brand new endgame primary item with 18 hours of serious win farming. (This is akin to making 1mil/hour on runescape and buying a bandos godsword for 18mil)
However, because you'll be selling your weapon from the previous level, a level modifier is added to the cost.

1920 * 18 = 34,560. This is a bit too low in my opinion, so let's add the level modifier. (1920*1.[LEVEL])
For a level 34 primary: (1920*1.34) * 18 = 46310 (Round to 45,000)

As for armours, i believe that you should have to grind much longer than weapons, as armour is a much longer lasting upgrade. Around 25 hours for an armor.
For a level 34 armor: (1920*1.34) * 25 = 64320 (Round to 65,000)

A new endgame sidearm / aux should take around 8 hours in my opinion, something that you could get in a solid day of pure grinding on a weekend if you REALLY wanted to.
For a level 34 aux or gun: (1920*1.34) * 8 = 20582 (Round to 20,000)

This means for a complete level 34 set you would need 150,000 credits. This seems like a reasonable price.
Enhancements should just be set to a flat cost of 7k credits per stat point.

IMPORTANT EXTRA NOTES: - Credit cost should be removed from varium gear, for the trade off of varium not being an option for enhancements. This allows players who can't get on as often to pick up some rares without having to buy or farm credits, but having to use credits to get the full benefits of the weapon.
- All house items converted to varium only
- Armor color system as mentioned previously
- ALL CURRENT CREDIT ITEMS REMAIN IN GAME AS THEY ARE, AND A WEAKER TIER OF CREDIT GEAR STAYS IN THE GAME. I believe that having a lower tier of credit items is a very important part of the game, meaning that instead of farming for very long hours, you can still choose to use the weaker non-premium credit gear if you don't have the time, or you want to save up for something later along the line

What this does:
-Pay for convenience and time
-Pay for cosmetics and unique character appearances
-Promotes more regular use of the enhancement system
-Promotes a more fair, but more competetive environment
-Fosters consumer goodwill and brand loyalty

Since you all seemed to miss this.

AQ

DF

Post #: 237

6/16/2012 15:50:09

Luna_moonraider
Member

well i decided to have fun by playing my alt which is lvl 28 atm so i tried clicking 2v2 but in the end it felt like i was clicking the feed the juggernaut button. 75% of my 2v2 battles were guess what juggernaut. how on earth am i gonna get 2v2 wins if i keep facing jugs. basically jug mode is making low lvls under farmed/ low in credits. thank god i know how to npc. some noobs dont know how to npc and they think 1v1 is hard because the run into too many varium players so they click 2v2 hoping for a 2v2 not a jug. the devs should limit the number of jug a noob/low lvl can face. or increase the range of juggernaut so that well the same few noobs will not get smacked into 3-4 jug battles in a row.

< Message edited by Luna_moonraider -- 6/16/2012 15:52:34 >

_____________________________

Post #: 238

6/16/2012 15:50:21

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

It stops looping for 3 classes, Mercs, BHs and BMs cannot loop effectively and it's in favour of Support builds only. And buffing a skill isn't a buff to the Stat, this is a skill not a stat you're talking about - yes Heal is universal skill but power of stat isn't powered by skills because some classes have advantage in certain stat; could be like saying X stat is OP for Y class but isn't for Z Class.
Also glass cannon builds could end up better or classes with BL since they get passive heal that isn't limited, yes lower but with no Support you would waste Energy on low Heal with low Support. Also Support is equivalent of AQ's Luck stat, shouldn't be a build on its own at all since it's all about luck with the stat.

yes it stops looping for all classes.

and i think u missed the point. its to buff support. since field medic is universal, all classes have to gain here when using support builds.
and i guess u didn't know that all classes have viable support builds.

tech mages:
malf
defense matrix
Field medic

BH:
Dex boost
Resistance shield
Field medic

Merc:
intimidate
blood commander
Artillery strike
Field medic

TLM:
field commander
Artillery strike
Field medic

CH:
Malf
Defense matrix
Field medic

BM:
dex boost
Resistance shield
Intimidate
Field medic

quote:

Lolwhut? 95 HP and 120 Support resullts in low defence? I can pull that with moderate Defences, or go for a bit less Support (a bit over 100), 124 HP and quite decent defences as well as strategy to cover weak points. Although that's as TM, so a bit biased on this.

and what do u consider moderate?
if it isn't 30 defense and 30 resistance on a non passive shield class, then its not moderate. its low.

quote:

If you think about it, Deflections back in Support would solve the problem of Support being weak and solve Tech tanking which is a pain and abused by certain classes.

i was gonna get to that, i believe deflects should be on support.

@xendran
thats pretty good.
except ur the average winrate isn't 60 an hour. its more of around 40-45

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/16/2012 16:14:14 >

Post #: 239

6/16/2012 17:30:25

Hun Kingq
Member

goldslayer1, with Artillery strike improving with support the merc classes had a chance at critical strike with Aux and Artillery strike where as the other classes had a very small chance of critical strike with their multis.

For the mage classes the tech mage had to have malfunction with high dex and the Blood Mage had to have dex to the extreme with reflex boost to even get in the mid 40s damage and for dex being at 180 the damage should have been high but it is all how they had it scaled. A merc of either class that had support at half of my dex with reflex boost got the same damage. Players will point out it is the same potential damage but in the game you expect they get less especially with Reflex boost on but more often Reflex boost failed.

The classes that can still get alright damage with the multis is the cyber Hunter and tech mage due to malfunction.

Because the multis still take a lot of energy to use they should be the powerful skill in the game due to you are hitting two targets and you are trying to get health down low enough to win the match not keep it high to loose match after match. If Plasma Rain did the 100% potential damage as they tell people it did then I would love it because I would get 80 damage on each target but it did not sometimes it just took resistance from one target and applied the same damage to both with two different resistance levels.

Restore multis back to what they where and give the new classes new multis.

Return a tech boosting skill back to the Blood Mage so they can take away the effect of malfunction if they want to use Plasma Cannon and have protection against energy attacks.

If the Blood Mage class is suppose to be raw power, a power class, then stop doing things to take away that power.

Will staff actually come up with a better idea for the multis after seeing that skill used less than ever before? Will they finally come up with new multi skills for the new class. For the Blood Mage a multi skill of fire and plasma since they are half physical half energy and if that skill is powerful then that shows the Blood Mage being powerhouses once again.

For Blood Lust it should not take being at max to get 23% and this is speaking both for the Bounty Hunter and the Blood Mage more so for the Blood Mage.

It is had to win 2vs2 since they messed with the multis and if you want to see those losses go up just do an hours worth of 2vs2.

There is more issues of balance or lack of balance then ever before and when will it be fixed, the next phase, if that is the case then bring in the next phase since balance issues will increase when the level cap rises.

Epic	Post #: 240

6/16/2012 17:40:39

goldslayer1
Member

here

thats for those interested in enhancement expansion ideas.
that should generally allow players to use old and low lvl gear.
essentially being able to use any art in the game at the lvl u desire.
and allow a large amount of customization.

quote:

with Artillery strike improving with support the merc classes had a chance at critical strike with Aux and Artillery strike where as the other classes had a very small chance of critical strike with their multis.

yeah, thats 13% critical chance at max, and thats depending if u have 63+ support over ur opponent. if support becomes a viable good build, then chances are, ur not gonna have over 10% crit chance on ur enemy every match, because some of them will be using support.
and the chances are lower than merc's bunker buster, or hunter's cheapshots, or BMs plasma cannon who both have 25% critical chance.

also, with plasma rain and using lots of tech, it increased their tanking and chances of declting along with robot damage.

with multishot, they use high dex to increase defense, and blocking chances.

right now, support is nowhere near as good as those stats.

quote:

The classes that can still get alright damage with the multis is the cyber Hunter and tech mage due to malfunction.

yes malfunction, but u cant possible tell me thats it not worth more spending stat points on plasma rain or multi shot on those classes, so that u have tanking capabilities than just support alone. not to mention both of those classes u mentioned have energy regain capabilities. (and yes im aware of TLM) + a debuff (which merc doesn't have, atleast for defenses)

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/16/2012 17:41:47 >

Post #: 241

6/16/2012 19:23:19

Xendran
Member

I know the average winrate isnt 60 an hour, it's not based on an average, it's based on an extreme.

AQ

DF

Post #: 242

6/16/2012 19:25:25

goldslayer1
Member

@xendran
ahh ok, altho in delta the most i been able to do in an hour is 50 (consistently)

but its possible to do 90 from npcs + brainwash altho thats only for 1 single hour.

Post #: 243

6/16/2012 19:37:07

Archlord Raistlin
Member

@khalidon Doesn't stat abuse LEAD to skill abuse? How OP could a skill be if you couldn't spam the improving stat?
Would you consider a lvl 10 heal to be OP now? Of course not...it's better than level 1, but the player had to sacrifice some
other skill improvement and use alot of energy to get it, etc...

You ask about how to "reduce the ability of those skills to go OP". Why not consider some more universal changes...

Tanking a problem? make upper stat progressions more costly, e.g.(dex) 91-96-106-116-126, (tech) 93-97-107-117-127, etc.
Spamming a problem? (str) 92-102-112-127-142 (sup) 93-103-113-128-143, etc.
Enhancements a problem? make the skill improve on what YOU put into the stat and ignore enhancements. Enhancements
can still apply to basic weapon damage and defense improvements.
Synergy a problem? Change or eliminate the improvement stat. Add or adjust the stat requirement.

The idea is to make it MORE COSTLY for everyone to spam a stat or skill. That does not mean make a skill weak. If a
player tries to spam it, go for it, but they should be left open somewhere else that others can capitalize on, etc...

Do you like being led by the nose down the str build path? If so, then continue on with these continual nerfs. They will lead
us all down some different path eventually...

Post #: 244

6/16/2012 19:50:15

goldslayer1
Member

@achrlord
tanking by stats isn't so much of a problem but by passive shields and and armors +stats.

before delta, only 1 class had a passive shield (hybrid armor)
now after the delta release, 3 classes have it.
eventually creates a rift in builds.
because comparing tank merc to tank tlm or tank ch is unfair.
the merc looses most of the time. why? because that class is built for tanking capabilities. hence why it doesn't have a defense/res debuff. nor shields.

now u have CH, that can regain, put up shields, and ontop of that deal massive damage.

its a big difference.
if they removed plasma armor, and mineral armor. merc would be better in terms of win rate because other classes cant tank like merc.

for CH:
remove plasma
give back technician
put static's % how it was before.

for tlm:
remove mineral. replace with something else.
return smoke screen

Universal change:
field medic back to the old support with the same scale.
field medic can only be used once per battle.
Deflect back to support (possibly)

this stop tanks from completely just tanking while heal looping.
and gives support a buff.

btw i made a suggestion here. (u might like it)
it lowers the total amount of stats from fully enhanced top gear at lvl 34.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/16/2012 19:52:13 >

Post #: 245

6/16/2012 19:59:42

Magiskee
Member

@GoldSlayer
^ Fully supported except the only being able to use field medic once per battle idea. Maybe make the cooldown longer by 1 or 2 turns instead?

< Message edited by Magiskee -- 6/16/2012 22:27:15 >

_____________________________

Quit EpicDuel.

Post #: 246

6/16/2012 20:41:15

Death Jr
Member

At goldslayer

A Merc is actually a bezerker type of class. Hybrid armor was put to make up for the low defenses a Merc had since most of its stat points should be put into Str. That is why a Merc has a Str boosting skill and most of the skills go well with Str except or surgical strike and artillery strike.

Post #: 247

6/16/2012 20:50:36

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

A Merc is actually a bezerker type of class. Hybrid armor was put to make up for the low defenses a Merc had since most of its stat points should be put into Str. That is why a Merc has a Str boosting skill and most of the skills go well with Str except or surgical strike and artillery strike.

if thats the case then why did the staff deliberately nerf merc str build even tho it was already weak?
the class to me is more of a tank.
while CH and tlm can do fine without their passive shields. add passive shields, and no wonder people complain saying they are OP.

take away' merc's hybrid, and it wont be anywhere near the lvl of CH or tlm without a passive shield.

thats the difference there. and why i feel CH and tlm passive shields should be removed.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/16/2012 20:53:09 >

Post #: 248

6/16/2012 23:03:53

Archlord Raistlin
Member

@gold Yeah, I would luv to bring frostbane up to current weapon standards, not to mention the armor i'm wearing...
However, this might cramp the "how quickly can we obsolete weapons strategy" currently in place.

...and as far as passive armors, I am all for giving one to all classes, but I could also live with taking them all away.
Not sure if anyone would appreciate un-ringing that bell...

Post #: 249

6/17/2012 0:18:30

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Yeah, I would luv to bring frostbane up to current weapon standards, not to mention the armor i'm wearing...
However, this might cramp the "how quickly can we obsolete weapons strategy" currently in place.

yes, it would allow founders to use their founder armor on par with current lvl 34 armors. along with many old weapons.

i remember frostbite claws, frostbolt, founder/bunny borg, and eggzooka looked epicly amazing.
boy what i would do that have that look again. sadly those items are lvl 32 except aux. which is 33.

quote:

...and as far as passive armors, I am all for giving one to all classes, but I could also live with taking them all away.
Not sure if anyone would appreciate un-ringing that bell...

well giving it to all classes could be another bad idea.

my str BH build can have 9 extra skill points if i remove 4 from reflex, and 5 from SA. this would easily let me get a passive armor while maintain a shield. it would be OP. (same for BM, which is the only thing that can beat BM, their lack of defense)

me personally, i would pull plasma (which CH were fine without before it got here)
and pull mineral off and replace it with something else. and leave merc alone.

Post #: 250

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