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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII

 
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10/18/2012 18:49:24   
Ranloth
Banned


Remember that Bludgeon is locked to Physical whilst Double Strike can be Physical or Energy, depending on your primary.
AQ Epic  Post #: 326
10/18/2012 18:55:59   
laguna blade
Member

I agree with exploding penguin. I think if plasma bolt nerf like fireball will make tm underpower coz plasma ball improve with tech is not same with fireball that is improv with str. Str help player do alot of dmg but tech only res and help nuke skills. Maybe they hard to kill others if nerf like fireball.
Epic  Post #: 327
10/18/2012 19:04:58   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

TM underpowered? No
I couldn't care less if they removed all the "magic" skills
I use none of them, and win VERY often
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 328
10/18/2012 23:10:23   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


@Trans Right now, physical-locked damage is actually an advantage, believe it or not. I went around random fights and the community to look at other people's builds, and more than 60% of them out of about the 80 people had more resistance than defense, so physical-locked damage is definitely an advantage now.
Plasma bolt DOES need a nerf, it's still extremely useful even when the user doesn't have a high amount of tech, as it's unblockable and does high damage at a low energy cost. Aside from that, TMs buffs are superior as they both cost a small amount of energy and scale well with high stat-buff outputs. Blaze has a very good point as well. The casting skills are actually a hindrance on many builds that need deadly aim to function well, as you have to spend 2 skill points along the way in order to reach it. The stun at level 1 may be useful, but level 1 multi is virtually useless. Many TM builds would still be overpowered even if there were no caster skills and the mage relied totally off of their buffs, passives, heal, malf, bludgeon, and assim.
Epic  Post #: 329
10/18/2012 23:25:32   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


@exploding penguin It's generally accepted that being forced into a single element that goes against your weapon element(if even if it goes with it) when you use a melee skill gives it some boost. Bludgeon doesn't really have that boost since it trades 5 energy for an extra turn of cooldown and already has the Tier advantage on Double Strike.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 330
10/19/2012 6:26:44   
RageSoul
Member

From looking at people describing the advantages of Caster TM is somewhat making me speak similar to that someone we already know ( hint : BM ) .

My reasons why Caster shouldn't be nerfed but rather buff the other builds :

* Enhancements --> The common amount of Stat Points you'll be able to get from every item you're using ( from non-Var to Var and from low to high levels ) is around 6 to 7 ( sometimes higher , usually depends on the gear ) . So that's .... 24 to 28 Stats Points ( at least ) , which is equivalent to 6 to 7 Levels advantage . Wowzers! If all of it are focused to both TECH and EP , then i have nothing to worry about much on DEX , HP and the rest of the stats , except luck and experts , of course .
* Gear ( especially the ones that are placement-wise ) - Tesla Armor , Caden's Wrath , Dark Heart , Beta Brutalizer , Voltzooka and the like . You know , the most common things that make the similar are them giving lots / decent amounts of TECH and get this : most require NO STR! *gasps*
* Build Format --> low DEX = above 20's Physical Damage and above 20's Physical Damage = less EP and less EP means no Plasie ! That's the most common thing you'll always see . What ? Some of them have DA and Malf ? Then i guess we're going back to reason # 1 then .
* Anti - Hulks --> No , i'm not referring to the Incredible Hulk ... although that's close , but i was referring to the other classes' "ME SMASH" builds , like STR BH and STR BM . They can counter them , sure , but what about the rest? Nope .
* Naming reason --> they use "spells" thus the name "Tech Mage" . From the first time i saw it , it was meant to be a good Caster class .
*Boost Hogging --> Caster TM + Boosters = decent and sometimes big wins , but Caster TM - Boosters = "hope i fight a rinse-and-repeat-strat-using-noob" .
* Preference of the other people --> sometimes even other non-Focus TM Builds can beat this , and they happen to like this more than Caster .
* And of course , strategy --> Sometimes , we tend to focus too much on beating / damaging that we didn't even realized that they're actually strategizing carefully as if you would make a nice tower of cards stacked to each other , but yet it's not flexible , not strategy-wise , heck it can be very unrealiable too! I mean what's the point of have an amount of EP if all of them went into ... going back from the start?

Though yes , strong a low-levels ... but no longer very effective independently ( read : no Boosters ! ) . Plus , they lack stats to be able to survive while spamming PB . This scenario kinda reminds of a type of build used in another game that has a description of "Weak at first , but somewhat godlike later" , and i'm referring to the other classes ( not quite sure about Merc since you can beat it even without boosting ) .

And no , i'm not that guy who defends it only just because he/she likes it , but it's because for the sake of variety + balance.
AQW Epic  Post #: 331
10/19/2012 6:50:03   
laguna blade
Member

Ya i ageee with lord ageis. Tech mage was designed as the best caster class in game. Thats y if pb nerf like fireball will weaker their caster build.
Epic  Post #: 332
10/19/2012 7:27:55   
rayniedays56
Member

So being able to do 70+ damage while having a skill that can boost this, while having a skill that can weaken the enemies resistance to it, while having a super move that boosts with tech, while having a skill that needs TECH and gains it back well while also having a skill that requires TECH (field medic)


Sure....not OP.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 333
10/19/2012 7:35:04   
RageSoul
Member

quote:

So being able to do 70+ damage while having a skill that can boost this, while having a skill that can weaken the enemies resistance to it, while having a super move that boosts with tech, while having a skill that needs TECH and gains it back well while also having a skill that requires TECH (field medic)

1) How's that possible ? The guy just let himself get carnaged?
2) How much EP will he need ? PB alone has 29 EP required while SC , if around 6 - 10 , costs quite a lot , so what more if Malf's in there?
3) More TECH = Less DEX , and less DEX = nooby DEF
4) So you're saying it's OPed because of Heal Looping? That's funny , isn't that the same to TLM and , if they survived , BH and BM ?


< Message edited by Lord Aegis -- 10/19/2012 7:43:20 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 334
10/19/2012 7:53:42   
Wootz
Member

quote:

1) How's that possible ? The guy just let himself get carnaged?
2) How much EP will he need ? PB alone has 29 EP required while SC , if around 6 - 10 , costs quite a lot , so what more if Malf's in there?
3) More TECH = Less DEX , and less DEX = nooby DEF
4) So you're saying it's OPed because of Heal Looping? That's funny , isn't that the same to TLM and , if they survived , BH and BM ?


1) No one lets it, the Plasma Bolt has a huge raw damage which just cuts like hell through the Resistance
2) That's a low cost, I managed to loop a Maxed Plasma Bolt and Bludgeon on level 16 with 56 Energy ( 2 times both skill during one battle ), also there's always the 100+ Energy Casters who just glass cannon everything
3)Less Dexterity proven to mean nothing. I ran around with 20-24 Defense which is almost nothing and I didn't even get blocked and managed to kill faster then Strenght Bounty Hunters who have a Dexterity debuff, ohmigod
4)Tactical Mercenaries win by making the battles lenghty, healing is a core part of the strategy for every Tactical Mercenary. Bounty Hunters & Blood Mages have passive Health regens which isn't the same thing. Bounty Hunter could heal loop with a Support build back when Field Medic increased by Support, but it was no where near the level of the Heal looping Tech Mages.
AQW Epic  Post #: 335
10/19/2012 8:04:55   
RageSoul
Member

Ok , fine . If you guys wanna nerf it , then nerf the other classes ' STR builds as well . But like i said , the reason #'s 1 and 2 are the most likely to be the cause of it . It's kinda impossible for a guy with starter EP to do something like that - unless the guy boosted or just have a lot of Stat Points .
AQW Epic  Post #: 336
10/19/2012 8:20:15   
Wootz
Member

It is possible. Ever battled a fully offensive Support Tech Mage? I don't think you haven't.
AQW Epic  Post #: 337
10/19/2012 8:22:08   
RageSoul
Member

I had , and yes , it's quite devastating . 12 - 15 base Pri/Side Damage , then 22- 27 base Aux damage . But i don't think he had a PB that's maxed out though .

< Message edited by Lord Aegis -- 10/19/2012 8:23:27 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 338
10/19/2012 9:20:47   
laguna blade
Member

Had u seen that caster's win rate? It is just around 90-94 not t so high compared to 5 focus bm which is 95-100(not during ebil war) .The casters not unstoppable like 5 focus bm. Im not caster.
Epic  Post #: 339
10/19/2012 9:37:11   
Stabilis
Member

Does anyone see anything abnormal in the Tactical Mercenary? I do not experience many overly powerful synergies, but Robots and Tactical Mercenary can be considered abnormally strong since Mineral Armor suggests more points for Technology, massively high damage and defences with mainly the lack of an extreme skill and health. Surgical Strike is not optimized for 5th Focus TacM because of the requirement for energy points, which reduces total health. I still recommend that armor skills reduce incoming damage by a fractional amount of the total damage. The main issue with Mineral and Plasma but not Hybrid is that solely Defense or Resistance boosts may entice exploiting the opposite defence's stat. For example with Mineral Armor, Defense is at least 25 minimum while Resistance is not increased, so to cover that hole, the player may match their Defense with their Resistance in Technology points... even possibly using that hole to exploit Technology for damage. And it did happen, with Gamma Bot, and even worse with Infernal Android (with their endurance).

(texting on my phone is a pain)

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 10/19/2012 9:39:24 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 340
10/19/2012 11:18:55   
Promiscuous
Member

TLM is fine, enough nerfing... Bring back staff req for bludgeon and maybe for PB/FB? Everyone and their mothers are using that effin Infernal Slayer now.
Post #: 341
10/19/2012 11:31:28   
Stabilis
Member

No one is nerfing TacM Promiscuous.



Infernal Android: still requesting resetting damage. In the present, the Android is not the scope of players... it is still Strength and Technology. Some of the Technology players subside in Focus, but more in skills. Beware. I see the Infernal Androids returning in the future, especially if Strength or certain skills are nerfed.
AQ Epic  Post #: 342
10/19/2012 11:32:14   
Mother1
Member

@ Promiscuous

Str builds are overpowering the masses (meaning strength needs a nerf) not to mention because of it people are suggesting nerfing other things around strength instead of dealing with the problem as a whole. I mean if the staff did a major nerf to support what is stopping them from nerfing strength? I mean look how fast they took care of the infernal android when it first came out. Howe hard is it to make strength progress slower? If strength was put in check a lot of things that are OP wouldn't be OP at all, and all of these crazy idea to nerf skills, items that only strength builds abuse would stop.

Also Plasma bolt needs a small nerf as well. While Caster TM are suppose to be strong, since the move doesn't have a stat requirement, nothing but the weapon stats are stopping people from spamming tech to overpower it. I mean look at how OP fireball was before they nerfed it, and unlike with TM BM didn't have moves in their build to power this up or weaken you like TM has. For all those who think nerfing this skill would hurt the entire class remember they have technician and malfunction to sync.

Epic  Post #: 343
10/19/2012 11:35:13   
Ranloth
Banned


Focus 5 BM is unstopable? Can someone stop joking around and take this thread seriously? Before Focus 5 BM rose to what it is now, it was small minority using it whilst all BMs were Strength abusers. Focus 5 wasn't OP. Now it's OP? Seriously? Caster TM's win rate is higher than Focus 5 BM's easily, unless you cannot abuse one stat and 2 skills properly which I'd be really surprised in.
AQ Epic  Post #: 344
10/19/2012 12:34:55   
Darkwing
Member

Focus 5 BM is not op, strength is. they spam bludgeon/gun+DA( 2 skills that work good with strength) and the more damage they do...the more they heal thx to bloodlust. Not to mention they have 3 skills( intimidate, energy shield , dex buff) that work with support, this is like a bonus

< Message edited by Darkwing -- 10/19/2012 12:38:03 >
Post #: 345
10/19/2012 14:47:46   
Calogero
Member

Seeing I'm a 5 focus BM for a long time now and I can't win everything, I doubt that qualifies as OP...

_____________________________

Having a Signature is too mainstream
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 346
10/19/2012 19:04:05   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Some builds I can beat 5 focus BM's
Some I just plain can't
I don't like them, I lose to them far more than Str Bounties, but I'm fine with it
5 focus BM is effective but beatable
No need to nerf
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 347
10/19/2012 20:01:55   
King FrostLich
Member

quote:

Caster TM's win rate is higher than Focus 5 BM's easily


I don't think so. But the whole strength abuse from other classes is the ones that really need nerfing.
Epic  Post #: 348
10/19/2012 21:11:47   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

anyone here thinks that the 2 changes and also 2 nerfs for me to the platinum's pride armor shouldnt even been made?
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 349
10/19/2012 21:18:15   
Mother1
Member

@ TrizZzCENTRINO

It was meant to be a physical attack since it is an uppercut with a fist. You aren't hitting them with your club or staff or claws but your fist which unless your hands are made of energy (which in this game they aren't) is correct.

Also there have been people who were complaining about using rage uppercut when their bar wasn't full which isn't right in the least. I don't know how many times I wanted to take rage away from my opponent without using mine but used it anyway because the rage I stole plus the rage I had added up to a full rage bar. So I am happy with the change.
Epic  Post #: 350
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