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RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles

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2/18/2013 13:06:37   
Mother1
Member

@ he who lurks

The logic behind this idea is flawed. For starters the only way the chain can be broken is for them to leave the battle before it is over? This means no matter what said person in 2 vs 2 would have an unbreakable chain win or lose as long as they stay. Also on top of that with the conditions like this the reward will promote the most OP builds. You say it is crazy to think this but it isn't. It is simple human nature. We want more and will do anything to get it. People will just make the most OP builds they can find to win matches and get this extra reward because of simple human greed.

But even if I could get pass that part there is also the fact that the reward wouldn't be fair to cap level players. remember cap level players have no need for exp so they would get only one reward while everyone below them would get two. It wouldn't be fair or equal for them either.

Epic  Post #: 26
2/18/2013 15:32:21   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@above yup exactly, its human nature, i don't think he who lurks get that, why would there be OP builds in the first place? its because players want more than they should, i just fear for the battle mode if this idea is implemented, 1v1 is totally over-run with stat abusers but 2v2 still remains a bit more fair/fun, the reason why OP builds appears more in 1v1 is that they gain credits quicker and wins than the 2v2 mode, with this suggestion the human natures of players would take over, it doesn't matter if (remorse. he who lurks) don't see it, but it happens,

sure, this idea would help with people leaving 2v2 but its the word fun/enjoyment that we are talking about, this is a game and it should be a place where you can have fun, I'm just afraid that your idea would destroy it.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 2/18/2013 15:33:05 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 27
2/18/2013 17:53:36   
He Who Lurks
Member

I'm sorry, but until you 2 can can develop an adequate enough argument to justify your concerns which I have already abated, I will no longer respond to you as there's no need for me to.

quote:

The logic behind this idea is flawed. For starters the only way the chain can be broken is for them to leave the battle before it is over? This means no matter what said person in 2 vs 2 would have an unbreakable chain win or lose as long as they stay.


You say this idea is flawed yet you give no basis as to how this is flawed. If I remove the first sentence within your post, I don't believe any members wouldn't see any flaws with what you have said. The sentence would be as followed: "For starters the only way the chain can be broken is for them to leave the battle before it is over? This means no matter what said person in 2 vs 2 would have an unbreakable chain win or lose as long as they stay."

To the argument of "OP'd" builds, you're implying that they're several unbalanced builds? If so, what are they exactly? This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've dealt with. Giving players extra credits/xp has absolutely nothing to do with balance. Your arguments are weak, nonsensical, and trivial.

The argument concerning players at the level cap, please stop involving "fairness". This has nothing to do with fairness, quit tossing the word "fairness" around as it doesn't pertain to this suggestion. I refuse to explain as I believe it can be inferred that you're unwilling to agree with my suggestion, regardless of anything I state.

I'm tired of responding to senseless dribble. I'm not attacking your character, just your arguments. Your arguments are "ifs", these are weak. Present me with "it" instead of the former.

Also, you haven't actually responded to my last post and you're repeating things you've already stated. I refuse to respond to anymore of your arguments until you start making "sense". Sorry if I come off as severe.


< Message edited by He Who Lurks -- 2/18/2013 17:54:29 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 28
2/18/2013 23:11:44   
arthropleura
Member

Eh. In what.. four, five years ive seen one 2v2 botter? Its not like people now dont already use OP builds. And 2v2 can take much longer than its worth...
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 29
2/18/2013 23:53:10   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@above i like strategic and long battles, there isn't much strategy if the battle ends quickly, the reason why 2v2 is not full of OP builds is that like you said, the reward isn't worth the time you spend in there, thats why people who likes to have fun with creative builds usually go into 2v2 while the OP builds dominate 1v1, if this suggestion is implemented then i fear that it would destroy the fun in 2v2. i do not support this until the devs make every build/class balanced.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 30
2/19/2013 6:41:51   
Remorse
Member

Could always SLIGHTLY lower the reward in 2v2, But then make up for it with a chain reward, which caps at SLIGHTLY higher the orignal 2v2 rewards,


This mean this suggestion would be giving very little if any extra of a reward but still having the positive effects of stopping on purpose Disconnects.



Plus you argument you don't want OP builds in 2v2 is one of the silliest reasons Ive seen for not supporting a good suggestion.


Have you even played 2v2 recently?


2v2 has the most spammers you can have.


Most frequent builds I see is, STR abuse, Tech abuse caster mages, Support abuse mercs and TLMs, and extreme defense abuse tanks.


How ever this is not suggesting that I think 2v2 is Unbalanced, it's actually ok considering, But that doesn't mean "OP" builds as you call them aren't being used,

< Message edited by Remorse -- 2/19/2013 6:43:09 >
Epic  Post #: 31
2/19/2013 6:58:33   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

quote:

Plus you argument you don't want OP builds in 2v2 is one of the silliest reasons Ive seen for not supporting a good suggestion.

how is that silly? it can happen, while i like the idea but I'm not entirely sure if it would do more good than harm.
if you do not think this would happen then you clearly do not know much about how the human mind works.

quote:

Have you even played 2v2 recently?

yes i have, and i do not meet as much spammers, I'm not sure what kind of 2v2 you are playing but it's certainly not what i have seen.
2v2 is currently more fun compared to 1v1, and i don't want this idea to ruin it.

i would support this if i was just thinking about myself and not others.
i know this seems like a good solution to stop people from leaving 2v2 but there are flaws in it that can also take the fun out of the mode.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 2/19/2013 7:19:20 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 32
2/19/2013 11:24:28   
Remorse
Member

^

More like thinking for yourself and forgetting about others...


On the million to one chance it slightly increases the amount of OP builds, the bigger problem people face is leavers, Having no regard for this fact is more selfish IMO.

Also 2v2 is the EXACT same with spammers, if not a lot more.....

If you honestly cannot see that you must be blind.


Plus the amount of STR spammers is in 2v2 dominating is very close to the amount in 1v1.



Plus you are yet to explain properly how this solution would EVEN IN THE SLIGHTEST have ANY effect on increasing the amount of "op" builds.


Please don't give me this, players doing 2v2 play to be creative and not care about losing nonsense, Players try to be creative yes, an abusing in creative ways still count but they are still abusing and the same % of people want to win at all costs in 2v2 as it is in 1v1.
Epic  Post #: 33
2/19/2013 15:21:01   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

quote:

Please don't give me this, players doing 2v2 play to be creative and not care about losing nonsense, Players try to be creative yes, an abusing in creative ways still count but they are still abusing and the same % of people want to win at all costs in 2v2 as it is in 1v1.

now you are just not making sense, there is nothing creative about abusing a stat, you just put loads of points into a stat, get decent health and defenses then go into 1v1 or 2v2, i don't see that as creative in any way.

quote:

On the million to one chance it slightly increases the amount of OP builds, the bigger problem people face is leavers, Having no regard for this fact is more selfish IMO.

Also 2v2 is the EXACT same with spammers, if not a lot more.....

If you honestly cannot see that you must be blind.

how do you know its million to one chance that this suggestion would increase stat spammers in 2v2? its more like 60% chance, worrying for the battle mode is selfish? XD
now now, making false accusations again, show some proof if you would, i would show some of mine, there is one abuser in every battle but 3 others who isn't, atleast that beats 1v1 greatly.

quote:

Plus you are yet to explain properly how this solution would EVEN IN THE SLIGHTEST have ANY effect on increasing the amount of "op" builds.

I"m starting to wonder if you have read through all of my previous posts........

this suggestion is just bribing people to stay in 2v2 with more credit rewards, that is a good solution but not the best, I'm sure there is a solution out there but not this.
you might think that I'm overreacting but I'm just thinking outside the box and the possibilities of unwanted consequences.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 34
2/19/2013 15:30:53   
He Who Lurks
Member

quote:

i like strategic and long battles, there isn't much strategy if the battle ends quickly, the reason why 2v2 is not full of OP builds is that like you said, the reward isn't worth the time you spend in there, thats why people who likes to have fun with creative builds usually go into 2v2 while the OP builds dominate 1v1


I'd just like to state here that you're equating the balance of a class to how potent a build is which is false and I'll explain why. Balance of a class IMO has nothing to do with how powerful a build is, but rather the capabilities of a class in comparison to the synergy of the other classes. If that sounds confusing(which it may), then think of the OP'd class as an "apex predator". Nothing dominates over it. As of now, ALL if not most builds are beatable. I don't use a strength build, however I'm still capable of taking on 90+ strength players.

The words in bold within the quote above shows that you believe builds that kill quickly are OP'd(mainly their residing class). This is plain wrong. According to that statement, all strength builds would be OP'd. Balance is not based on how quickly you kill, I stress this point again.

It's also clearly evident that you're fearful of excellent builds, not OP'd builds because otherwise you wouldn't have used the words "creative builds". The words "creative" and "excellent"(in the sense of builds) are not synonymous with each other. Creative builds are creative, powerful builds are powerful, powerful yet creative builds are powerful and creative. Use those 2 words by themselves instead of synonymously.

It also seems as thought you're being slightly "misinformed"? You don't wish EpicDuel to be a competitive game, but rather a slower-paced game should be favored where-as a well-thought build that exceeds the capabilities of "creative" shouldn't be allowed within EpicDuel. I end my argument, and also you continue to ignore my past 2 rebuttals. I continue you to give you my opinions and you chose to ignore them. There's no reason for me to continue these posts if they come into one ear, and out the other, never being fully retained within your head. Again, I'm not bashing you but rather your senseless(and if they can even be called)arguments.

< Message edited by He Who Lurks -- 2/19/2013 15:31:45 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 35
2/19/2013 15:39:25   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse and he who lurks

This isn't getting us anywhere. I think a better idea would be to have the staff put this idea on a poll and see what the masses say. The forums only represents a small amount of the epic duel community at best and as it stands we are at a stale mate here.

Epic  Post #: 36
2/19/2013 15:48:53   
He Who Lurks
Member

A stalemate you say? They're at least 5 verifiable supporters of this idea v. 2 who say "nay" towards this idea without any substantial reason whatsoever. I hardly call that a stalemate. You refuse to reply to my rebuttals, and I sincerely wonder why. Not attacking your character, but rather your willingness to ignore my previous posts.
AQ Epic  Post #: 37
2/19/2013 16:10:22   
Mother1
Member

My point with that last post was that we are a small part of the game community were are the masses don't even post here. Just because 5 people think it is ok to bribe people into staying in battles they feel they stand no chance in doesn't mean everyone in the game does.

Epic  Post #: 38
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