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RE: Into Pandora's Box(An Interest Thread)

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3/28/2014 14:06:42   
Arthur
How We Roll Winner
Dec14


 @BK, now that's what I originally thought. The world of the Wizard could be a medieval setting whereas the other worlds could have indigenous settings.

However, a balance in technology must be maintained in order to avoid the immense mismatch in character levels.

What measures do you guys propose?
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 26
3/28/2014 15:56:39   
TJByrum
Member

I would be happy with my character being at a disadvantage of a more advanced character.

To me, it's all about skill, determination, and creativity. I ain't saying that's all you need to defeat an opponent, but through careful planning, strategy, and the correct tactics, I think certain characters can defeat other potentially-OP characters, or at least come very close. That's why I like my basic characters. Give me a sword, a shield, and some armor and I'm fine. I envy the day I can defeat a... a robot with missile launchers using nothing but a shield and sword...

But I know what you mean. I'm not entirely sure what balance would be needed, unless everyone receives a specialized item that corresponds with their timeline.
DF AQW  Post #: 27
3/28/2014 16:12:10   
Arthur
How We Roll Winner
Dec14


 @TJByrum, true that.

There's nothing better for a true warrior than finding himself against insurmountable odds.

However, for the sake of the RPers and to keep liberty from being abused, I think I'll keep the standard slightly lower than what the Worlds may make it seem.



Anyways, onto the Characters, I was thinking a mix of magic and technology. Should the technologically advanced species be given access to magic?
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 28
3/28/2014 17:01:00   
black knight 1234567
Member

It depends on how you want to view magic in this roleplay. While it probably appeases to the inner child of many people, magical robots with fireball rifles, I think having magic being limited for non-magical worlds would work best. Would be kind of lame, to be frank, if the mage could adopt an AK47 and the robot can adopt a staff. This way each party still has certain difficulties to overcome.
Does this make sense?
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 29
3/28/2014 17:10:57   
TJByrum
Member

I see technology and magic at odds with one another. Anyone from the future should have 'magic' as if the Jedi or Biotic individuals do from Star Wars and Mass Effect, respectively. It's a good contest: magic vs tech, but that's up to you.
DF AQW  Post #: 30
3/29/2014 11:40:46   
Arthur
How We Roll Winner
Dec14


 I personally don't have any problem with people using both magic and technology, it's just that it gives them too much on their plates and also, also allows them to create some unbeatable combinations which I seriously don't want in such an RP where the real experience is more important.

I guess we CAN limit the usage of magic for the technologically advanced characters, but how, exactly?
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 31
3/29/2014 13:38:49   
Starstruck
Member

Well there are 2 ways we can go about it.

One way is to view this RP as technically based, and the other way is to create some plot devices. I'd prefer the former, but it's me.

If the RP becomes more technically based, with a few metagame interactions, it becomes possible to include guns, fireballs, and "lethal" interactions without becoming way too powerful. Consider:

Player 1 shoots Player 2.

Either: Player 2 Dodges/Player 2 Misses
Or: Player 2 is Hit:
~Either: Player 2 is Dead.
~Or: Player 2 is Injured:
~~Either: Player 2 is Partially Injured.
~~Or: Player 2 is Crippled.

This is not a favorable dichotomy for any RP, but it simply isn't fully realistic any other way. In a technically based RP, the following could occur:

Player 1 shoots Player 2:

Either: Player 1 Misses/Player 2 Dodges
Or: Player 2 is Hit and takes damage.
~Either: Player 2 continues as normal
~Or: Player 2 is defeated or killed
~Or: Player 2 is struck in a critical area:
~~Either: Player 2 can continue with limited function
~~Or: Player 2 is defeated.

It's a wider and more forgiving dichotomy, albeit with less suspension of disbelief.

Because we don't play D&D, it might be best to do something that pretends to be more mechanical. Imagine a character who is a wooden dummy. You can hit the dummy with a sword, punch it, shoot it with a gun, and light it on fire, and it will basically be fine. In essence, it is a breakable juggernaut that can take a lot of punishment before breaking, and even more before "dying" and shattering into pieces.

The idea would be that all characters have hidden stat values and levels and hit points and mana points that basically simulate into real life. We don't decide exact values, but we can tell trends and compare values. This one hits hard. That one can take a lot. This one is very fast. See: animals. Gorillas hit hard. Rhinos can take a lot. Gazelles are very fast.

And then multiply those things by like four, introduce explosions and magic spells and spears of ice, and you're golden.

But wait, where do magic and technology factor into it?

Well, what's stopping a wizard from using a gun? It's not exactly difficult. Point and click. He's bound to get lucky eventually. And people who "use technology" are hardly immune to magic or have 0 propensity for using it; that would be unfair to them. Wizards can hold guns, why can't they pick up fireballs?

The best way to go about magic and technology in a technical roleplay, I think, would be for magic to be universal to all worlds, with varying degrees of awareness across the worlds we visit. That one doesn't even know about magic. This one knows, but killed all the people who tried to learn it or showed great aptitude for it. This one embraced it. Etc. Etc.

So if you come from a "technology" world, you can learn how to cast a fireball as easily as you can learn to shoot a gun. It's just a matter of building up your mana, learning the "trigger" (a symbol, a word, just the intent to shoot a fireball), and releasing. Aiming and stuff comes later. Suppression of magic would be as easy as taking someone's gun away from them, by taking their mana or "trigger" away somehow.

The other possibility that can be introduced to reconcile the debate would be a barrier that prevents worlds from completely interacting. It's sort of a universal defense mechanism that keeps worlds in line. If you go to visit a world, your magic/technology/clothing/appearance would change to fit the world you're in. So, if you go to a "medieval" world, your rocket launcher becomes a rock launcher, and your wizarding would become something a little more shamanic, like calling weather or lighting small objects on fire. Wizards would become cyborgs in high-tech worlds, and the peasant warrior would get futuristic-looking armor. In high-magic worlds, the peasant warrior would get resistance to magic and the high-tech guy's stuff would be powered by magic.

These are only suggestions, and I'm still trying to fully understand the RP, but I think they'll be good enough to work with with perhaps a slight change.
DF MQ  Post #: 32
3/29/2014 13:57:31   
Arthur
How We Roll Winner
Dec14


 That cloth and equipment alteration idea actually seems pretty amazing. I think this'll have to work when RPing as the bio can't possibly factor in these many details.
do let me know if you guys have any suggestions as to how this idea could work other than the way I suggested.

P.S. Gives me a Justice League-ish Alternate Universes sort of feel.



Anyways, I think its tougher to actually begin using magic as compared to picking up an equipment and just using it.

I feel that technology-based equipment needs a few things only:

Practice
Skill
A Knack for that Weapon/Equipment.

Some people are better gunfighters than they are Mecha pilots. It depends on your interest in that equipment.

As for Magic, I think you need:

Flair
Interest in that Magic
A Vast Amount of Knowledge of that Art.
Ability to channel mana to your body points
Skill
Practice

Most of it, as you can see is completely imaginary and happens within your body. You don't actually HAVE anything made ready for you to pick up and use.

So, the way I see it, those who've never lived in a magically charged environment or don't have a history of magic eventually grow inert to such magical influences.

So, people dabbling in a high amount of technological equipment naturally despise magic(unless they are highly eccentric, in which case, Magitech).

Just my view on it.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 33
3/29/2014 14:17:22   
TJByrum
Member

@Starstruck: ....I'm really liking what I read just now. I once wanted to do a RP that used stats and attributes in the OOC, but we converted everything to realistic stuff in the IC, but it never went anywhere. But what you say is similar to my idea, but a bit better. I wouldn't mind doing something like that. I will post some stuff in my idea thread and you can come check it out, but it's probably going to be lackluster (which is why I like it when people criticize my ideas). EDIT: But did you make a mistake at the top of the first dichotomy? I can't help but think it should read "Player 1 Misses/Player 2 Dodges".

@Arthur: Technology-based equipment, depending on what kind it is, depends on the learning curve. When gunpowder became widely used, it was so much easier to show a peasant how to load and fire a gun than it was to teach him how to ride a horse and use a sword. Magic on the other-hand, I always see it as something that takes vast amounts of skill and time to learn. I know some individuals could be born with an innate ability to use magic, but I like to see magic-users in their older-ages.
DF AQW  Post #: 34
3/29/2014 14:43:44   
Arthur
How We Roll Winner
Dec14


 I believe stat-based RPing is best done in the Games section where you actually make use of those stats throughout.

There's nothing better than making readers believe that the character is actually on the verge of dying without the words on the screen blinking, 'Critical HP'.

It makes RPs too technical and most RPers, being pure writers usually find it difficult to ride that figurative bus.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 35
3/29/2014 14:46:01   
TJByrum
Member

@Arthur: I know, but I've always been curious as to how it would turn out.
DF AQW  Post #: 36
3/29/2014 14:50:19   
Arthur
How We Roll Winner
Dec14


 @TJByrum, you can, by all means try experimenting with it but keeping in mind that the amount of units/values lost or gained are completely based on your opinion and so, most RPers may complain about the system being too opinionated and/or biased.

One of the many reasons I don't dabble with numbers where words are involved.

But let me know what you come up with.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 37
3/29/2014 14:52:40   
TJByrum
Member

I came up with a dichotomy similar to Starstrucks, but incorporates countering:

Player 1 attacks Player 2
Either: Player 1 Misses/Player 2 Dodges/Blocks
Or: Player 2 is Hit
~Player 2 is injured and is less efficient
~Player 2 is defeated
Or: Player 2 Counters
~Either: Player 2 Misses/Player 1 Dodges/Blocks
~Or: Player 1 is Hit
~~Player 1 is injured and is less efficient
~~Player 1 is defeated
~Or: Player 1 is disarmed
~~Player 1's weapons is knocked away
~~Player 1's weapon is broken

EDIT: Other things to include would be:

Awareness: Is the defender aware they're being attacked? If not, they probably have less of a chance of dodging/blocking/countering.
Skill: Who has the better skill? A knight with a sword would obviously outdo a thief with a dagger: the knight is better-trained and probably has a greater chance of countering and hitting.
Shields: People with shields probably have a greater chance of blocking an attack.
Armor: Is it heavy? And if so, is it harder to dodge?
Weapons: How effective is your weapon against the opponent?
DF AQW  Post #: 38
3/29/2014 14:57:46   
Arthur
How We Roll Winner
Dec14


 A bit long-drawn, don't you think?

Also, this method focuses heavily on combat types and seeing how you explained your dichotomy in your own thread, a vast number of factors need to be considered before a move can be made, both by the Host and by the RPer.

It's pace-hindering, in my opinion. But, if done properly can serve as an amazing refreshment from the general standard.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 39
3/29/2014 15:02:01   
TJByrum
Member

It probably needs a lot of work, and I think we run through most of this stuff in our heads without realizing. I really want to join an Arena-type RP right now, just to see how things work out (I've never been in one, so...).

I wish I still had it, but I think I deleted it... but I once had this drawn-out guide on how to defeat this opponent. He was very OP... he could fly, control lightning and the ocean, and had a trident. My character was like a dark elf, with two short-swords, a spear, and shield, but that's it. My goal was to feign and retreat into a cave. That eliminated his powers over the ocean, lightning, and his flight was hindered. My character, being better-equipped and with a few tricks up his sleeve should have been able to defeat him, but we never got to play it out. I was ready to face him though.
DF AQW  Post #: 40
3/29/2014 15:07:06   
Arthur
How We Roll Winner
Dec14


 It seems the ECs are the only Arena based RPs open to everyone. And they don't follow this method of combat.

I agree Arena-based RPs have their own appeal.

I really wish the AEF RPing System was a bit more forgiving so people could be more open and actually partake of the fun taking place here.

Alas! Idea Threads won't last forever as we can very well see in RPGD and a lot of very good ideas WILL die without ever turning into RPs.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 41
3/29/2014 15:24:42   
TJByrum
Member

Oh I know the EC don't follow that sort of combat. I was just interested in that sort of combat. It makes it more technical, and I'm a very mechanical/technical kind of person, it feels more logical.

I never joined an Arena-based RP because, to be frank, I simply don't like to lose. But I'm different now and I think I could handle it.

The current RPing system is good on paper, but bad in practice. They ought to just have a normal RPing section where anybody and everybody can be with minor standards, and then have an Advanced RPing section where the more advanced/experienced RPers can apply and be reviewed. But that's a horse that was beaten to death since... going on since last year (almost a year ago now, right?). I don't know what else to do honestly. Places like TFF can last for a bit, but they just end up dying off.
DF AQW  Post #: 42
3/29/2014 15:48:17   
Arthur
How We Roll Winner
Dec14
quote:

They ought to just have a normal RPing section where anybody and everybody can be with minor standards, and then have an Advanced RPing section where the more advanced/experienced RPers can apply and be reviewed.


Exactly. The current system will better suit an Advanced Mode of RPing. Frankly, not everyone is cut-out for the current system, guys like me, for example.



Whaddya guys think about the equipment alteration idea?
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 43
3/30/2014 12:43:12   
Legendium
Member

Just my two cents, but don't technical based RPs actually qualify more as Forum games?
kkutwar, one of the veteran A&R game-makers told me the difference between A&R games and RPs is the fact that RPs don't have the whole mechanical system behind them.

I don't really know, and I'm not going to say that having mechanics makes it less of an RP, but from what I've seen myself, the whole mechanics thing fits more in the Forum Games section....
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 44
3/30/2014 14:12:55   
Arthur
How We Roll Winner
Dec14
quote:

Just my two cents, but don't technical based RPs actually qualify more as Forum games?


They do indeed fit there. RPs are a literary form, albeit an unconventional and lesser known one.

Games, on the other hand CAN or CANNOT have the technicalities making them both games and also semi-RPs, or one-liners as they are called.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 45
3/30/2014 14:30:10   
Starstruck
Member

I'm seeing miscommunication. Let me clarify; I explained badly.

The RP in this section of the forums is NOT supposed to be technical. Exceptions have been made with metagame interactions (like DWeird's RP) that involve heavy storywriting on predefined lines, but essentially the idea of subjectivity is what gives the RP boards their charm.

What I mean by "pretending to be technical" is to write as though characters take damage and are defeated, as though they take some amount of damage from a gunshot and some other amount of damage from a sword strike. Everyone's a juggernaut.

Player 1 shoots Player 2.
Either: Player 1 Does Not Hit
Or: Player 1 Hits:
~Outcome: Player 2 is hurt
~~Either: The hurt defeats Player 2
~~Or: The hurt does not defeat Player 2:
~~~Either: Player 2 is relatively unaffected (obviously getting hit has repercussions)
~~~Or: Player 2 is incapacitated.

There are no agility rolls, no stats to calculate how badly the gunshot hurts. Weapons are not considered lethal in any part of this universe, and in fact continuing until the opponent dies is only in rare cases seen as justified (extreme revenge, extreme justice, etc.), since there's no real need to continue fighting beyond incapacitation.

It's basically as if you were playing Pokemon and didn't know how to check stats pages or anything, and maybe there's a glitch and HP bars and levels are missing. So all you know is that when Pikachu uses Thundershock, it really hurts Pidgey a lot, but Nidoran is perfectly fine sitting through and taking two or three of them while really dishing out some pain on Pikachu, and Geodude doesn't even care. No calculations, just "Perform action receive result." With the stats involved, the results become more clear, but without any inside into background situations it becomes a more realistic battle instead of a purely mathematical struggle. Understand?

If you played Pokemon in the subjective style used in the EC's (more misunderstandings galore! I am bad at explaining), Pidgey would be fairly well off dealing with Pikachu, but Nidoran might have a tougher time since it's a lot easier to get fried. Geodude would still be able to weather infinite Thundershocks, but trades that luxury for being a literal rock and not really being able to do much to agile and quick Pikachus.

I am so very sorry for throwing my two cents in tail sides up. There was no intent to confuse.
DF MQ  Post #: 46
3/30/2014 14:36:56   
Arthur
How We Roll Winner
Dec14


 That Pokemon based explanation just made me relive my childhood.

Anyways, got it.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 47
4/1/2014 11:39:07   
TJByrum
Member

Just for the record Arthur, Legendium, and Starstruck, there was no confusion about all the technical/mechanical type of stuff. I'm aware that Dungeons and Dragons type gameplay would fit more in the games forums, I was just mentioning that it would be interesting to try it out in the RP forums.

RPing is more about using common sense and realism over all that mathematical stuff, but I still thought it could be interesting to see how it plays out.
DF AQW  Post #: 48
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