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=AQ= WORK IN PROGRESS Lucky Strike Changes

 
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6/18/2025 17:59:40   
  Lorekeeper
And Pun-isher

 

Note: The following changes concern standards for items, not baseline Lucky Strike behavior.

As cited in the newsletter,

quote:

LS damage bonuses have a flat cost based on the lowest chance even at Hypercrit's easily-achieved 100% rate, and are worth more than putting the same resources into raw damage. We're beginning a comprehensive revamping of these mechanics and their interactions to find a good balance between fun, and other options still being worthwhile by comparison.


To address this situation, the following changes to Lucky Strike mechanics are currently being developed by Ianthe:

quote:


  • Damage boosts to Lucky Strikes will now be additive.
  • Damage boosts are being clawed back from +50% damage to +33.3%
  • Anything that modifies Lucky Strike rate will now proportionately affect Lucky Strike damage. If you have x1.5 LS rate then you'll do /1.5 LS damage. These'll stack additively -- throwing on another x1.5 rate will make it x2 rate and /2 damage.
  • Items with "MC: x1.5 LS rate" will now be,
    -[summary] +3.33% Lucky Strike rate
    -[detailed] +33.3% Lucky Strike damage plus a free effect of +3.33% Lucky Strike rate; assuming nothing else the MC damage boost and damage modifier from adjusting the rate will cancel out and you'll just get +3.33% Lucky Strike rate
  • [uncertain] Because of this I'm gonna keep rate modifiers to +3.33% increments.
  • Hypercritical now just boosts LS damage and applies a single "+3.33% rate" modifier.


  • It must be stressed that these changes are based on the dynamic of Lucky Strikes as a whole and the design space for items in this niche, including the viability of developing on-crit effects without excessive complexity and conflicting costs. They are not targeting individual items; items will be redesigned according to the new dynamic rather than the other way around.

    As this is a a work in progress, there may be changes based on workload and feasibility. While individual items may be relevant feedback material, please keep feedback focused on the tentative Lucky Strike dynamic.

    < Message edited by Lorekeeper -- 6/22/2025 12:54:25 >
    Post #: 1
    6/19/2025 4:45:35   
    Telcontar Arvedui I
    Member

    Overall I think the concept and implementation sets out on the right path, so I don't have more feedback pertaining to the overarching dynamic for now, except a "Good job!"
    I do have 2 questions - which may spark discussion, but my main goal was to let devs keep them in mind when retro-redesigning already-released equipment. Or to clarify stuff, if they've already had the solution in mind.

    Q1: Hypercrit
    Hypercrit is (was?) a status with varying magnitude (the scale of LS rate it delivers) and duration (number of turns the bonus is active), and can be stacked. Moving forward, how will the stacking work? Personally I'm hoping for one of 2 outcomes:
    1. Hypercritical stacking allows multiple "+3.33% rate" to be added up, making it easier to achieve (near-)guaranteed LS, but comes at the cost of locking duration (i.e. stacking Hypercrit does not extend the status duration).
    2. Hypercritical stacking only extends the duration of that single "+3.33% rate" modifier, and the LS damage boost is then calculated based on equivalent-%Melee-principle. This encourages branching out into other item categories to find more sources of LS rate mods, in order to increase LS rates.

    Q2: Frostval Crowns
    Turning Frostval Crowns from multiplicative to additive is a potentially huge swing, will Frostval Crowns and their ilk be considered for "more than plus-or-minus 3.33% LS rate" modifier? Personally I do hope they offer a bigger additive swing (in the ballpark of plus/minus 20% LS rate while one-thirding/tripling LS damage) to give players access to higher LS rates without having to wait for potential future gear releases.
    AQ  Post #: 2
    6/19/2025 14:23:29   
    LUPUL LUNATIC
    Member
     

    quote:

    Items with "MC: x1.5 LS rate" will now be,
    -[summary] +3.33% Lucky Strike rate


    This means that the valuation of +% LS chance is now 2/3 of what it normally was (from +5% LS chance MC), and i wanted to ask, considering that we are in GBI thread, why is the reasoning to lower it from +5% to +3.33% LS chance considering that Lucky Strikes are worth 150% Melee(Taken from Stat Damage Formula) but their previous cost for reaching that was +90% Melee from the ratio of +1% LS chance = +1% Melee. And the cost of +90% Melee added +135% more Melee output previously :
    A base 10% LS hit is worth 15% Melee on Average, at 100% chance is worth 150% Melee, this means adding +90% chance to the base LS was worth 150%-15% = 135% Melee.

    My question here is as follows : Yes you were gaining 135% Melee Damage for 90% Melee Cost but shouldn't this be mathematically correct since it falls at its core into the Player Controlled Trigger effect, which means that since it does scale with LUK, it should get x1.5 Power just like other items that have a MC/effect that is scaling with a stat and it is getting x1.5 Power due to it (Like hexbound weapons,or Neko shields) ?

    AQ  Post #: 3
    6/21/2025 11:31:44   
    Grace Xisthrith
    Member
     

    Telcontar: I agree with what Lupul posted, predicting that hypercrit will function the same as before with its crit rate simply 2/3s of what it was (assuming no item adjustments). So, dragonguard would go from 90% crit increase to 60% crit increase, and be additive. I assume there would be no change to stacking rules of the status, which are currently choose the longer duration of the status if the duration differs, and divide the power over that duration.

    Frostvale Crowns: Balance wise, these don't need to receive any changes (unless there's backend stuff). The crowns already funtion in a balanced fashion, if you double your damage, you halve your rate, etc. They already use the lean feature that is proposed to be added, so I'd imagine there would be no changes.

    General / continuing Lupul's thoughts.
    I truly believe the biggest issue with LS currently is that you can get excess free value because of multiplicative modifiers. For example, if you had three 2x crit modifiers (lunar hare (pretend it's 2x for simplicity), timekiller, and idk that one energy armor, it's 2.5 and additive but ignore that for simplicity), you get 10x2x2x2 = 80% crit chance, but you're only paying for a 30% crit increase. This goes even further when you use larger numbers (Lust +40%, Lunar Hare x3, timekiller x 2) and you're only paying for 70% crit rate, but you end up at 50x3x2=300% crit chance, letting you use Frostvale Crown for double crit damage, so you're getting not only 100% crit rate, but also double crit damage for what should be a 70% crit rate increase. This is why I think the additive crit rate changes are the most significant nerf, and most justified nerf, they remove a lot of the free value that was really good.

    Player controlled trigger / Lucky strike 1.5x value: Context for this: Lucky strike items objectively require two stats to use and take advantage of (mainstat and LUK), most items that require two stats to use get some type of power increase, usually a player controlled trigger. There are endless examples of this, often with items that have CHA, like Frogzard Board's stun having decreased stun cost because it uses a CHA save for example.
    There's like 14 different standards for using multiple stats on an item (especially CHA), so we can't fully base any decision on current balance precedent. That being said, almost all dual stat item standards that I know of are at least 1.5x power increase, the exceptions are higher. So, we can go with a baseline of 1.5x power increase for requiring two stats to make sense. However, I'm of two minds in general. 15% melee per turn is what lucky strikes alone gives, and that's really bad compared to CHA or END, objectively for the base performance of the stat. The status rolls portion for minor rolls can be really good or mostly useless depending on build, initiative is generally not super impactful (from luck, from armors it is) in my opinion, and Lucky breaks are super OP against many bosses. I bring this up because I think whether or not LUK deserves a player controlled trigger is decided by how much value the stat generally gives. I think without style bonuses, its value is relative to CHA and END, low at base, so giving it a 1.5x player controlled trigger for investing in two stats seems not only in line with many precedents, but reasonable if LUK could use more love, relative to CHA and END's base performance.

    LS damage: The LS damage scaling makes sense balance wise, however it's become a flashpoint of displeasure among some vocal players. Balance wise I have no issue with it, but it would make items like Grandad almost entirely undesirable for optimized builds, compared to items like Bloodblades, or recent more optimized bloodblades like Multimaul, Twinmaul, G-Maul, etc. I think that damage changes really won't have an impact on bossing, because 95% of bosses have damage caps or plot armor (stop using .75 clawback reminder) so the extra damage provided is mostly irrelevant, so I don't see why giving damage items a little extra value would cause a huge balance issue. The idea is basically to reward players for getting very high crit chance, and give them double expected output on crit damage modifiers. So, if you had 10% crit chance, Grandad's would provide that +200% crit damage. If you had 100% crit chance, Grandad's would provide +200% crit damage, but it's divided by crit chance, so +20% melee, EXCEPT that it has trigger which scales up with crit chance, maxing at double output, so 40% melee at 100% crit chance. I suppose you'd get 30% melee at 55% crit chance, being +45% of the +90% needed to hit 100% rate.
    That got convoluted, but the main idea is giving crit damage items a small amount of extra power at higher crit rates, not to make them really good, but to make them better than normal damage items if you invest heavily in LS strategies. This in my opinion wouldn't change the power of the items that much, but gives them a purpose and doesn't relegate them to worse bloodblades. Also, if getting 2x output sounds way to OP, remember that hitcount scaled items get that for free with no extra investment, and they pay much more %melee for their effects than any current crit damage modifier.

    CHA / Style Bonus tangent: The 1.5 player controlled trigger for 2 stats being required argument also applies to guests. This logically means that guests should get 1.5x to their output. I've been vocal about my disagreement with the implementation of style bonuses in the past, and to my knowledge, the main reason for their implementation was guests. If you use the 1.5x 2 stat requirement model for guests, then you don't need a style bonus to get them up to 60% melee output, so we could remove all style bonuses and keep guests identical to how they are now, with base 30% melee cost and 60% melee output. This would have the benefit of undoing the massive powercreep caused by the style bonuses. Obviously a tangent from the LUK topic, but I thought I'd bring it up, since we're editing stat behaviors again.
    AQ  Post #: 4
    6/21/2025 17:10:59   
    Dardiel
    Member

    With the above discussion of triggers, it's an opportunity to invent the new logic fallacy:

    Appeal to a e s t h e t i c s


    Currently, with 1% melee = +2/3 % LS Rate, it is not a fun number to do and it's tough to do mental math using it - the conversion from % melee to % LS Damage is the same situation (1% melee = 2/3 % melee LS damage average, or 20/3 % melee LS damage at 10% rate). If it got the x1.5 trigger bonus, the 3-part equivalence would be the very aesthetic

    1% melee = +1% LS Rate = +1% LS Damage
    Post #: 5
    6/21/2025 17:50:14   
    Spyduh
    Member

    Regarding the changes being developed,

    For weapons like Grandad's Greatsword and Lazgorath the World Ender (I've been waiting to buy), is the damage of lucky strikes being reduced if there are no other lucky strike rate or lucky strike damage boosters?
    AQ AQW  Post #: 6
    6/22/2025 2:19:31   
    Dardiel
    Member

    @Spyduh those weapons would be (assuming the posted changes are applied as written) reduced from +300% melee Lucky Strike damage to +200%, but otherwise not affected without Lucky Strike Rate boosts.
    Post #: 7
    6/25/2025 16:19:57   
    KhalJJ
    Member
     

    I think, from a work in progress perspective, one or two worked examples with the aim to illustrate some of the changes would be most hopeful (edit - Helpful!) for most players reading this.

    < Message edited by KhalJJ -- 6/28/2025 13:04:15 >
    Post #: 8
    6/27/2025 22:50:06   
    Spyduh
    Member

    @KhalJJ: I agree. Especially as a returning player who's not super familiar with some of the updated mechanics of the game, it would be really useful to see.
    AQ AQW  Post #: 9
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