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Quadrupaling Stats

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3/23/2012 22:33:12   
Cyberbeast10
Member

You might be thinking: "This is just some guy who wants to see bigger numbers", well no...

What I'm proposing is to quadruple all stat values in order to create more diversity in ED. Let me explain:

As you know, before diminishing returns starts taking effect, every +1 damage or +1 defense/resistance is given after every 4 points intervals are reached in a particular stat. So the problem is that out of 40 stats points, only 10 actually have some actual value since only 10 out of those 40 stat points will cause an increase in damage or defenses. If stats are quadrupled (These include HP, Damages, Defenses) then every +1 damage or +1 defenses can be applied every 1 stat point instead of every 4.

In other words, every stat point will have some beneficial gain. But, wait you might be thinking: "But the Tanks, and Powerbuilds!...". Nope, HP can be quadrupled (to 8 HP every stat invested) as well as MP and stat scaling and skills (among others your base defense, armor bonuses, etc). This would effectively cancel out all the increases so the game balance is still the same, but players now have more control over their parameters!

So, what are your opinions on this? Would this help ED in creating more diverse builds?
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
3/23/2012 22:38:33   
Stabilis
Member

Since you stated that everything is quadrupled, does this basically mean that the numbers get bigger?
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
3/23/2012 22:43:04   
Cyberbeast10
Member

Well, yes, but that isn't what I'm aiming to do. I simply don't like the fact only 1 of every 4 stats actually have some value when affecting parameters. Quadrupling values can be done to make every stat point affect parameters without changing the balance of the game.
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
3/23/2012 22:52:05   
drinde
Member

But what does this do?

Does it make any difference in the game? >.>
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 4
3/23/2012 23:02:44   
Cyberbeast10
Member

It is supposed to give more control to players over their stats:

Let's say one player under the current ED has the following damage:

Strength: 40
Weapon: +13

Total Damage: 15- 20 +13

In order for him to increase his damage by +1, he will need to invest 4 points to strength. If we quadruple stat values it will be like this:

Strength: 40
Weapon: +52

Total Damage: 60 - 80 +52

Now, only the player needs to invest 1 point to increase his damage by +1 instead of using 4.

HP and defenses will ALSO be affected to prevent changes in balance.



AQW Epic  Post #: 5
3/23/2012 23:07:45   
Basicball
Member

I believe you may be forgetting about diminishing, and diminishing returnes

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
3/23/2012 23:12:40   
Cyberbeast10
Member

But, Diminishing Returns can be adjusted to fit this; to let say at some point you'll need 2 stat points for +1 instead of just 1. If every stat's value is multiplied by 4, then they all cancel each other out, technically not affecting the game's balance, but will allow players to modify their stats:

This is the equivalent of making each stat point right now increase your damage/defenses by 0.25, but with this we can still use whole numbers.
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
3/23/2012 23:22:13   
drinde
Member

Maybe, but I don't really see why the DEVs should implement this, since it doesn't change anything in the game much.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 8
3/23/2012 23:28:46   
Cyberbeast10
Member

Well, I think its a nice suggestion to allow further customization of builds. It feels like a waste sometimes that you have to dedicate 4 points to get +1; this way,no stat goes to waste since it is contributing (even minimally) to the improvement of your build.
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
3/23/2012 23:31:28   
Stabilis
Member

Yep, the +1 stat, +1 attribute would definitely help. I would suggest this with edits to stat behaviours at the same time.
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
3/23/2012 23:39:31   
drinde
Member

But wouldn't Enhancements be even more powerful? :O
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 11
3/23/2012 23:50:15   
Cyberbeast10
Member

Hmmm, Yes. Considering that they don't land in any of the original 4 (OR 5 with diminishing returns) interval points, then enhancements would be slightly more advantageous, but never by +1 or more damage/defense/resistance in comparison.
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
3/24/2012 0:03:13   
PD
Member
 

 Algebraically if this happens nothing happens :P

No need for pain. Math does that for ya.
Post #: 13
3/24/2012 0:11:37   
Cyberbeast10
Member

Lets make things clear with MATH (Following uses imaginary numbers):

Current ED /// Proposed ED

Strength 40: 10 - 15 /// Strength 40: 40 - 60 (If divided by 4 = 10 - 15)
Strength 41: 10 - 15 /// Strength 41: 41 - 61
Strength 42: 10 - 15 /// Strength 42: 42 - 62
Strength 43: 10 - 15 /// Strength 43: 43 - 63
Strength 44: 11 - 16 /// Strength 44: 44 - 64 (If divided by 4 = 11 - 16)

Now we have no misunderstandings as to what I'm proposing, correct?

< Message edited by Cyberbeast10 -- 3/24/2012 0:12:09 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
3/24/2012 0:16:52   
Mr. Black OP
Member

Problem is that 1 dexterity point = .33 defense as opposed to .25 damage from strength or support, also technology is also screwed up.
Epic  Post #: 15
3/24/2012 0:21:14   
Cyberbeast10
Member

Hmm, didn't think of that; I never noticed defenses scaled by 3 and not by 4. So this pretty much put a gigantic hole into this idea of mine.
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
3/24/2012 1:34:04   
Retrosaur
Member
 
quote:

I simply don't like the fact only 1 of every 4 stats actually have some value when affecting parameters.


Not true. Stat progression affects stat-based skills. It's not one point affecting everything at the same time.
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
3/24/2012 1:53:55   
Cyberbeast10
Member

But their are not enough skills that scale with the same stat to say that every stat invested has a least some value.
Perhaps multiplying stats by 4 causes way too many complications for the problem I want to solve:

Simply enough, not every stat point invested (including at low levels) has a beneficial addition to it, hence players cannot distribute their stats effectively when making builds. So players are a bit limited when making decisions to improve their parameters.
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
3/24/2012 2:58:32   
Remorse
Member

Im sorry but this idea will ruin balance.



You say that it wont make powerbuild worse because hp is also increased aswel..

But that is not true at all.

You need to take in account for passives etc.

For example Blood lust....


What do you think is gonna happen if you get a powerbuild that uses every sinlge stat to give them EXTREME GOD POWER (other then the fact of them killing most people in one shot)

So you think you will last if you have high hp????

WRONG

High hp merely makes it easy for the powerbuild to take you down and NOT lose a single HP through blood lust.



Im sorry but This idea does not work at all in my eyes.


In fact I hope that they do the oppisiste of your idea and actuly LOWER the effectiveness of stats.

Because there are far too many stats, attacking becomes abusive and it forces emence attack preasure on ALL battles ruining fun creativity startegy and making luck ALOT worse.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/24/2012 3:02:46 >
Epic  Post #: 19
3/24/2012 10:16:56   
aomont
Member

I'm with remorse (kind of :) ).
I won't speak against enhacements but multiplying stats by four will just increase the present issues.

In my opinion, a good suggestion would be the higher the amount of points (there could be some relation to level too, maybe) in a given stat the higher the amount you'd need to increase "effect" by 1. If you need 4 point in str to increase damage by 1, once you reach a certain amount you'd need 5 then 6 then 7... to have 1 increase in damage. That would help, I guess.
Epic  Post #: 20
3/24/2012 10:21:50   
Cyberbeast10
Member

That might be nice, but it already exists; its called "Diminishing Returns" which affects stat abuse.

quote:

What do you think is gonna happen if you get a powerbuild that uses every single stat to give them EXTREME GOD POWER (other then the fact of them killing most people in one shot)


Well, clearly we are not going to quadruple passive effects such as Bloodlust! Under this suggestion, Bloodlust can only get stronger by an equivalent of less than 1 HP, but tanks can ALSO get stronger by an equivalent of less than 1 defense; so powerbuilds and tanks balance themselves out in power. Please, provide me with details as to how this destroys balance; if you get a misunderstanding as to how I imagine this to take affect, I will clarify:

Let's say Bloodlust has 30% gain:

Current ED:

Damage: 10
Bloodlust: 30%
Heal: 3

Proposed ED:

Damage 40 (Divided by 4 = 10)
Bloodlust: 30%
Heal: 12 (Divided by 4 = 3)

See? No change real change.

The most troublesome things that have been pointed out are that defense/resistance raises by 3 and not by 4; as well as having to change the effects of diminishing returns to accommodate this.


< Message edited by Cyberbeast10 -- 3/24/2012 10:38:32 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
3/26/2012 0:00:15   
Aere
Member
 

 I understand what he's getting at. And I like it.

For example, say +4 strength gives you +1 damage. In the current scenario, so does +5, +6, and +7. With Cyber's idea, the +5, +6, and +7 would gain some actual use.

In short, "wasted stat points" would be impossible.
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
3/26/2012 0:12:46   
Sipping Cider
Member

I also dislike having wasted stat points, but quadrupling stat point values is a huge move. What could be done is each point affects the rang of a stat.

Here is an example for strength and damage

Strength----Damage
0------------0
1------------0-1
2------------0-2
3------------0-3
4------------1
5------------1-2
6------------1-3
7------------1-4
8------------2

This would work the same for resistance to technology, dexterity to defense, and support to auxilary damage. This way numbers stay sorta around the spot they are at now but still change with each point invested.
Epic  Post #: 23
3/26/2012 7:17:48   
Cyberbeast10
Member

Under that example, however, having 3 strength is better than having 4 since you can deal 2 more damage than in strength 4. It seems like a nice idea, but I want a few more examples before I come to a conclusion.

Anyways, considering DEF/RES work by intervals of 3; I've decided to give a new idea. Instead of quadrupling the value of stats; we simply make every stat invested add +1 to the corresponding parameter (With some exceptions, of course; to prevent imbalances, but those are for later) and quadruple HP and weapon/skill base power. How does that one sound?
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
3/26/2012 18:20:43   
  RabbleFroth
Member

We've discussed the fact that every point put into a stat doesn't necessarily help you, and ways this might be solveable.

Multiplying every stat by some amount is a solution to the problem, but it isn't necessarily an easy one. It would present a tremendous amount of work because a lot of systems rely on the fact that the numbers are where they are.

While we might look into changing the system to reward every single point in a stat, it is very unlikely we would use an approach like this.
Post #: 25
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