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Re-desing skills in the skill tree

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8/5/2012 13:09:29   
Masterofthenoob
Member

Hey all! Okay I have some ideas I like to share. Okay I notice that many people don't use poison and stun grande for cyber's. Also shadow arts anit used alot for cyber ether. Also BM needs to get a cool down before use or a new skill. TM Needs some buffing cause I went to tm not to long ago (4 weeks ago) and I saw it wasn't good at all!

K I will start with TM's.
TM's( Tactical Mercenary :
Needs smoke back
Needs to replace blood sheild with shadow arts
Also needs nurf to the poison. Instead of max dmg 13 poison make it 10.

CH's( Cyber Hunter's) :
First off we need to switch around skills where there place at. Plasma armor should be at where the emp grande is at and emp grande gets put where Plasma Armor was.

Poison replaced with Reverse Staic. Instead of mp it gives back 29% of dmg to hp at max lvl back. It has 2 cool downs after use (just like charge).

Shadow Arts Replaced with Deadly Strike. This Improves ur primary wep by 10+ at max lvl but it requires 45 support and 92 HP.
Plasma Grenade with Plasma strike. This lets u summon up incredible amount of Plasma in your dagger's and make u do alot of dmg if have malf on. Max dmg dealt with it would be 120! It can not crit and Deadly Strike wont improve it. It requires 50 support and 105 HP Also Once used every skill goes on cool down for 1 turn accept mass it has 2 cool down added and all passive abilities are disabled for char. Also it can be blocked.


BM's (Blood Mage's):
Okay there str abuse is oped by a lot. Its beatable but unless u start first you may or still may not have a chance of wining unless ur are BM. So
Fireball:
lvl 1 Requires 19 dex
lvl 2 Requires 24 Dex
lvl 3 Requires 29 Dex
Lvl 4 Requires 34 Dex
Lvl 5 Requires 34 Dex
Lvl 6 Requires 37 Dex
Lvl 7 Requires 40 Dex
Lvl 8 Requires 42 Dex
Lvl 9 same amount of dex required
Lvl 10 Requires 45 Dex.

Remove Deadly aim replace it with Field Commander.
Give Berzker back to BM
remove Reflex Boost and give it Bio Armor
Lvl 1 2+ Phis armor and +2 gun (like deadly aim)
Lvl 2 3+ Phis armor and +2 gun
Lvl 3 4+ Phis Armor and 3+ gun
Lvl 4 4+ Phis Armor and 4+ gun
Lvl 5 5+ Phis Armor and 4+ Gun
Lvl 6 5+ Phis Armor and 4+ gun and 1+ Resti armor
Lvl 7 5+ Phis Armor and 5+ gun and 1+ resti
Lvl 8 5+ Phis Armor and 5+ gun and 2+ resit
Lvl 9 5+ Phis Armor and 6+ gun and 2+ resit
Lvl 10 5+ Phis Armor and 6+ gun and 3+ resit armor.
50 Str and 35 Support required.

Some of my idea might be OPED or under powered (which I highly think its actually all over oped accept tm >.>)

Well fell free tell me my down sides to this and why its oped or under powered or what I should change etc. :) Thx for reading.
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
8/5/2012 13:18:02   
Ranloth
Banned


 Passive for TLMs is a no in place of Blood Shield. Every class needs defensive skill for Res and Def, you're leaving them without any for Resistance. Rather than give luck-based passive, why not Technician back which would be much better than Shield?
Smoke won't happen; Each class can have EP/HP Regen (passive), passive Armor and debuff. TLMs (TM = Tech Mages so remember) have Armor and EP Regen so it's fair. CHs have Armor and debuff so it's also fair; if you mention SC for Energy then TLMs have Frenzy for HP as well.
Poison got crippled (or rather fixed) to 12 in recent update. It's still good due to no requirements and unblockable so it doesn't need any tweaking in my opinion. It's balanced how it is already.

CHs won't get your new passive. They are supposed to have SC which is EP regen skill hence why they don't have BL so it's pointless. They are supposed to differ from unevolved form which is BH with BL. SA for Deadly Strike? We used to call that Diamond Blades when BH had them aaaaages ago and it was taken away for a reason. I'm not sure on your suggestions; are you looking to buff the both classes for no reason? They are balanced according to Devs, maybe with minor tweaks needed.

I will agree on BMs, but Dex? They will have some of it for average Defence and probably requirements so I wouldn't say it's a wise choice. What stat do BMs don't train? Support. That'd be perfect counter for Fireball instead of Dex. And DA could be removed but God, not your skill. That'd be even stronger than DA. Passive Hybrid'ish Armor + weaker DA in one skill? And Str requirements + average Support? They already have that, it'd be major buff for them which is a no.

Suggestions are nice but just mainly OP which makes me think for a no overall by looking at current state of Balance.
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
8/5/2012 13:25:18   
midnight assassin
Member

To be honest it is really hard to think on how to balance the fire ball.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
8/5/2012 13:43:46   
Masterofthenoob
Member

Well as I see it BM max str is 73 in this oped str build there dex is 37 so is tech and so is support but at the same time I think your right support would be better choice. Also the Bio Armor thing eh now that I think about it would be a no. But Who uses blood shield? Some Tm's use it but they never saved them when they did use it. I'm a cyber personally and they put that blood shield on I still kill'em with my mass. Eh Technician that would um counter cyber's. idk but smoke I think should happen. What other debuff's does TM's have besides poison which I would classify it as "N/A" for now. Atom Smasher eh not for sure about that 1 ether its blockable and with today's build they go for pretty good amount of dex. CH lol yea I went over bored on that. Can u give me suggestions of how to replace shadow arts and plasma grande? Poison yea I forgot about the buff XD. Also How to put in Shadow Arts in TM cause they got the stun grande so why don't tm's have shadow art? Thx for the replay :)
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
8/5/2012 13:47:12   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 Where to start on this? ._.

TLM:
Smokescreen; No, it was removed because they were getting too much damage with it and it stacked well with Technician and Frenzy. Now it would go too well with Frenzy and Stun Grenade and Double Strike.
Shadow Arts; Why? Blood Shield is fine on the class as is. Many would consider this a nerf anyways because SA isn't reliable.
Poison; it's fine as it is

CH:
Plasma Armor; it's been stated by a balance team member that Hybrid is a Tier 1 passive and will be changed because it's Tier 1
Reverse Static; This is just a renamed Frenzy and would be OPd to have with an energy regen like Static Charge since you could easily get the energy to use the skill repeatedly
Deadly Strike; Diamond Blade re-make. Not going to happen since Primary weapons never cooldown and are used for multiple skills.
Plasma Strike; this is not going to happen because of how much damage it does give. This is like Massacre on steroids.

BM:
Fireball; just lower the scaling on it. I believe the scaling was buffed twice since it's been released because it just wasn't powerful enough but that was back when TLMs were on top.
Field Commander; NO! BMs already can get upwards of 50 damage with their strength skills without any buffs to their damage.
Berzerker; this gave too much damage and was removed because of that. Adding Field Commander to the skill tree with this would be overkill
Bio Armor; they're not going to get a passive armor at all. EVER! And giving them gun damage to replace DA in the first place plus Field Commander is once again overkill.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
8/5/2012 14:02:11   
Masterofthenoob
Member

@The ND Mallet Guy ? They don't got Technician no more so... why... Plus what do you want? For TM's stay the never played class? Shadow Arts pff if they got the stun grenade so... Poison yea I wouldn't nurf that I forgot that Poison for bh and cyber was buffed. CH Deadly Strike I said to replay to some 1 and yea I went over bored with the Deadly Strike. Plasma strike would have 5 turn Warm Up and it can only have 1 point added to it and if u add this 1 point you can't have mass. and Mass on steriods part I can almost hit 120 with my mass already I do like 95 atm. Not that far off and its blockable on top of it. Mass can't be blocked. Also the requirement for its a lot compared to mass. Static pff it has cool down after use and it has warm up 1 and cool down of 2. Also tm and bm can regain hp and cyber's can't? The last time I checked bh before was the only 1 that had regain hp abilities before. Fire Ball true on that. Field Commander lol was miss stake. I had a different idea idk why I typed that. But I forgot the skill I was think of to replace it. I didn't really explain this that well. When Fireball gets a support requirements and with a down scale on its dmg I was thinking about replacing it with 1 of the tire 3 skillz. But I quickly forgot about it and put Bio Armor up there.. >.> I hate being sick.
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
8/5/2012 15:22:07   
DeathHound
Member

I couldn't agree more with what everyone said to this topic.

The reason SmokeScreen was taken away is because Mercenaries with physical weapons mostly went on STR builds. If you lower their dexterity (Lowering their defense) with SmokeScreen, you'd be packing large hit points. When i say large, i mean large. When SmokeScreen was out, you saw people abusing it like crazy. Shadow arts? They have Mineral Armor, and that would mean no protection against resistance. Nerf to poison? Bounty and Cyber Hunters have theirs at 11, so it is fine right here, seeing as how Tactical Mercenary is a Dalta V class, giving it its own "Spunk".

Cyber Hunter: The new skills you gave? They would never do that.

Blood Mage: Well people abused STR then, and will continue it. It's life. that skill buff combining DA with Bio Armor? Major buff. They'd be better off with their berserker. Giving them a support requirement would really even it out, but at some points, they would choose to max out DA, Plasma Cannon, and put the other skills on either Bludgeon, BloodLust, or something else. I'm really too tired to get into this as much as i wanted to, but some of your ideas seem to either make it worse on the classes, or make them overpowered.
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
8/5/2012 15:36:07   
Masterofthenoob
Member

@DeathHound Did you just read my first post? if so READ THE OTHER 2 >.> shesh. Smoke str builds was abused but BM abuse str... So who care's give tm's a better chance.
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
8/5/2012 15:41:35   
Ranloth
Banned


 We care. This isn't balance if you don't care about it and we have right to give you feedback on it. BMs cannot nerf Defences, TLMs can for about -10 down and reduce blocking chance too. Turn to debuff it so even bigger advantage for Str abusers. You do realise that's not how balance works by giving OP skill back to TLMs? TLMs had their smoke removed for this reason:
"Each class can have EP/HP Regen (passive), passive Armor and debuff. TLMs (TM = Tech Mages so remember) have Armor and EP Regen so it's fair. CHs have Armor and debuff so it's also fair; if you mention SC for Energy then TLMs have Frenzy for HP as well."
And it was making them OP as well so it's not coming back at all.
AQ Epic  Post #: 9
8/5/2012 15:44:32   
Ez_Ease
Member

@Masterofthenoob

Keep posting your idea, while some will make classes over powered and that is what we are trying to stay away from,
Strength builds will always be a problem regardless of class, just that you see more of them right now as BM. So the
nerfing them will only create a strength build some where else. Watch and see, so you have to deal with the issue of strength
since that will be the root cause. Diminish returns on the stat or having high support is not working in my opinion.

I use BS quite well especially when it use to be maxed out giving me +14 with my delta armor +5, that is enough
to overcome most malfunction and at +8 currently it is still pretty good just depends on the end user. Plus 5 turn
is a long time.

Technician would work fine but it only last 3 turns but works well with SS which I do not use on my main character,
Maul would be okay since I have descent strength, remember the battlefield is fluid and it is constantly changing.

The more I read post about balance the more I am convinced that the way to balance is not the class, but in the stats
that controls each class.
Epic  Post #: 10
8/5/2012 16:08:27   
DeathHound
Member

I told myself i wouldn't post on this again...

Also, you guys are confusing me with the TMLs, and CBs, and SCs and BS ._.

@Masterofthenoob: do you not get both of them have high physical damage rates? Smoke was a problem for Tactical Mercenary, thus why it was taken off. I read what you said, so don't get emotional if you thought i didn't. Yes BM "abuse" strength, but they lack DEF and RES, because all they have is reflex booster. So those who are STR, obviously lack in their DEF/RES department, giving a way to defeat them. What you're doing is TRYING to make them balanced out, and still strong, but not using this STR build. Not only did you give them a 3 in one skill- bundle, not only did you make it TWO requirements, but that skill is overpowered all on its own. They would be better off having DA in my opinion. Yes, they do abuse STR, but you're making them a little bit "Overpowered" with the skill, there. THAT. IS. MY. OPINION.

@Trans: I couldn't agree more. All those mentioned are strong in their own way.

@Ez_ease: I really didn't follow you on that. At all. I agree with the Strength build being a problem for all classes. And that is where Masternoob came in; focusing on just one, whereas EVERY class can abuse not just STR, but any stat, and use it to their advantage. I think that you need to focus on making the classes basic and balanced. In order to do that, you need to take away what they're using/abusing away from the equation completely, but put it off to the side. Next, you need to figure what you can replace it with. Perhaps lowering the damage a little, and raising the requirement to Support? You should also take every once of this process into consideration making a new class, as it requires more thought than time.
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
8/5/2012 17:37:51   
Masterofthenoob
Member

@All ... :| For 1 Yes all class have a str problem but at the same time I thought of something isn't str build post to due like pretty high dmg with str? oh and PS about the Plasma Strike thing it will depend on your tech. It will not stronger behind surrent point which I decide to make 120. Which to achieve this 120 awesome dmg u will need at least 180 tech or something like that. I know its your opinions but all trying to do is to back up my own opinion. Also smoke with tm I can get but still tech thing wont balance tm out at all. All that will do will help with the surg/robo build. and even then they still at a lost cyber are already good at tech and the robo cool down is quite long and bm can do insane dmg in quick amount of time while gaining there hp back. So we need something to balance them out... cause right now tm has only 2 builds and support doesn't rock any more well so does bm and cyber but with both build's back to back tm lose both way's. Oh btw the ps stopped way back ago XD. Also top of it TM skill tree needs to get completely re-done. Tech thing might be a good thing for tm but it won't help much but it will help agesint bm not so much cyber's. At the same time if try to give it a new skill it would be oped again. Let see... How about we add berzker? nope they will just go abuse str build with there double/berz and they can do that pretty well since they have reroute. Also on top of it coming up with new skill's for different classes is hard. If try to give bunker to tm what will u replace it with? Cause you can't take away field commander cause if they do go support they will lose the thing what make a support build a support person. That is all for now.
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
8/5/2012 17:38:59   
Masterofthenoob
Member

Also the starting Dmg for plasma strike it is 50
And malf doesn't make it do more dmg

< Message edited by Masterofthenoob -- 8/5/2012 17:43:50 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
8/5/2012 17:45:36   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

so... pretty much.. it would be the greatest, most OP skill in the game, thus people would stall until it was ready, use it, then win?
Not supported in the slightest
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
8/5/2012 17:48:19   
Ranloth
Banned


 TMs have Malf, they don't need Smoke. And it's Plasma Bolt not Strike, and damage is about right at Lvl 1 (about 50) with moderate Tech but TMs with Smoke + Malf is a nono.
AQ Epic  Post #: 15
8/5/2012 18:01:09   
Masterofthenoob
Member

@Blaxe The Aion Ender Plz State the skill's name that ur talking about. If plasma strike why? you can't max it out to 10. Also to get it to its fullest dmg u need a lot of tech... Even if you had 90 tech your max dmg is 75 and mass can do alot more then that. On top of that you can't even use your mass once u put point on it unless u take away the point on Plasma strike. On top of it, its block-able. 5 Warm up before use. Once u get ur max dmg (if you can) ur opponent will have 5 turns to slay u (which is pretty easy since all your opponents can u kill in at least 4 or less >.>) On top of that even with mass I can hit 95. Not oped. and it require 2 stats! not 1.
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
8/5/2012 18:02:46   
Masterofthenoob
Member

I'm not talking about tech mages. tech mages have nothing to change about them. TM = Tactical Mercenary....
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
8/5/2012 18:05:47   
Ranloth
Banned


 Tech Mage = TM.. TLM = Tactical Mercenary.. This has been stated back when classes were made and you made your suggestions misleading now..
AQ Epic  Post #: 18
8/5/2012 18:20:23   
Masterofthenoob
Member

well I called them tm's.
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
8/5/2012 18:21:58   
Eventus
Member

Please use the Balance Discussion thread to continue your discussion of balance issues pertaining to OP'd/UP'd skills, classes, etc. Padlocking this up.
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
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