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1/3/2013 4:47:56   
Xendran
Member

No other bot has an effect that lasts the whole battle (Infernal android does not count. It's disgustingly overpowered.) so why should Pyro Fly? Instead, it shoudl use a creative system that takes advantage of the way builds work: Skill Points.

When the special is used, it disables a skill for CEILING(x/2) turns.
x = The number of points put into a skill.

The special will come off cooldown at the same time the skill is returned.

This allows the special to disable a skill for up to 5 turns. What this does, is prevent it from completely wrecking builds in one move, but it also allows for a player to reuse it again if it takes away a low level skill. This allows them to sacrifice extra turns in exchange for trying to disable the skill they want.

EDIT: No damage is dealt. That part of pyro fly is stupid.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/3/2013 5:26:22 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 1
1/3/2013 4:51:52   
Remorse
Member

Supported!


You mean you can pick the skill disabled for the x turns right?

If so that's why I support.
Epic  Post #: 2
1/3/2013 4:56:59   
Xendran
Member

I was keeping it random, but making it reusable, so that you can attempt to disable a specific skill by reusing it. I have other ideas for a bot that can pick a specific skill to disable.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 3
1/3/2013 5:13:43   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

I remember you saying to me that doing that would make the bot OP if you could pick and choose the skill you disabled. Why the change of heart now?

@ OP

It is a one time use attack that is random. Also just because the IA is OP doesn't make it's effect any less lasting the entire duel like the pyro fly's. But on another note make it search out a power and disable it for X/2 turns? If it was one time use I could possibly support, however making it reuseable afterwards? Not supported this is vastly OP and it is reusable every time the bot comes out of cool down?
Epic  Post #: 4
1/3/2013 5:22:21   
Xendran
Member

How is it Vastly OP? It's arguably a nerf, actually.
On average you're going to be taking useless skills for 1 turn, mildly used skills for 3 turns and invested skills for 4, possibly 5.
Also, it costs a turn every time you use it.

EDIT: Wow i missed a massive part of this suggestion, which is that it does no damage when used, as opposed to the current 80% (which is ridiculous, why does a utility skill have to do damage)

< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/3/2013 5:26:09 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 5
1/3/2013 5:31:42   
Mother1
Member

@ xendran

The pyro fly the way it is now shut down one move for the entire game and is one time use right? Well with the way your idea is, depending on what move it hit, it could be a nerf, (a weak move that is power up my one level 1/2 which is one turn) Or a buff (a maxed out move 10/2 = 5 turns) Then in three turn the bot is reusable. If the bot were to hit a move power up by seven or more then it could be used to add more time to the cooldown for more then one move while another is out.

If you hit a move that is level 1-6 then you are right it would be a nerf since the cool down of the bot would be more then the cool down of the move. However for 7-10 it would be a buff since the cool down of the bot would be less then the cool down of the move. Plus even at 80% damage it is a free hit as well.

Other then the azreal's borgs special every other free unblockable- deflectable hit is one time use. This would be giving pyro fly users a free hit every 3 turns.
Epic  Post #: 6
1/3/2013 5:35:12   
Xendran
Member

No, i never said that the cooldown was three... It goes into cooldown for as long as the skill is disabled.
If you hit a level 10 move, your bot special is down for 5 turns as well.
Same way that if you hit a level 1 move, your bot will come off cooldown immediately.

EDIT: I think you forgot that gamma bot and infernal android specials are unblockable but deflectable as well.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/3/2013 5:36:22 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 7
1/3/2013 5:42:30   
Mother1
Member

@ Xendran

When you posted the idea you never said it didn't do damage so that was one of my concerns. Also I was talking about completely unblockable moves that aren't reduce in damage by deflection I am sorry if I wasn't clear on that one.

Because if it was left with the damage it would be vastly OP.
Epic  Post #: 8
1/3/2013 5:44:43   
Xendran
Member

Yeah, i don't think pyro fly needs the damage even as it is.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 9
1/3/2013 6:41:37   
Remorse
Member

@Mother,


I said it was OP if the current pyro fly was pick-able,


Xendrans idea, means that it doesn't last the whole game and is in fact postponed according to what level the skill is.


If there was no damage and postponed according to the level of the skill plus usable more then once per game then I think it would be fine if it was pick-able plus it means that this bot can be used for strategy rather then a effortless win, luck chance.



BUT, if it was pickable it would probably be better if the calucltaions for the postponed period was (x/3, with a min of 1 turn) which means a max skill would be postponed 3 turns.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/3/2013 6:45:59 >
Epic  Post #: 10
1/3/2013 7:11:10   
Ranloth
Banned


 Although, the beauty of this Bot is that it disables random skill for duration of whole battle. Both balance each other out. Of course you can always add a formula to it so it has higher chance to disable top tier skills than bottom tier. Such as: Tier 1 - 40%, Tier 2 - 30%, Tier 3 - 20%, Tier 4 - 10%, so it'll target the higher tier skills most of the time instead of bottom tier which are more powerful.

Making it re-useable would benefit tankers mainly since they'd gain much better use outta the Bot, especially to disable the essential skills for tanking. Of course you could get, say, Str abuser with it and disable their crucial skill but would the damage loss make up for it on your side?
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
1/3/2013 7:12:18   
Xendran
Member

They don't balance each other out, they make it so the pyro fly is either garbage or godly.
This bot currently either does nothing, or wrecks the build in most cases.

Also, tiers are not related to power.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 12
1/3/2013 7:16:07   
Ranloth
Banned


 Well they should be, especially when you need to be Level 10 to unlock Tier 4. What for? Power may not be the same or even weaker. And yeah, it's either garbage or godly, based on luck. It's purely a luck Bot which some people like. Good on those who use fewer skills since it has higher chance to disable one you want.
AQ Epic  Post #: 13
1/3/2013 10:29:18   
Remorse
Member

quote:

And yeah, it's either garbage or godly, based on luck. It's purely a luck Bot which some people like


Unfortunately for me a hate it! Hate is a strong word that I dont always use but, why make a PvP game which was once based highly on strategy and wits to throw it all away to countless, annoying, effortless win, luck, specials!

< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/3/2013 10:30:22 >
Epic  Post #: 14
1/3/2013 10:38:56   
Stabilis
Member

Still not sure why the current Pyro Fly does not disable the highest level active skill for a limited duration, as it could be 3 turns, which is the highest cooldown duration in the skills division.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 1/3/2013 11:01:22 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 15
1/3/2013 10:40:50   
Xendran
Member

@Depressed Void: That's what Signal Jammer is for ;o
http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21000398

< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/3/2013 10:41:07 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 16
1/3/2013 10:45:21   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

Unfortunately for me a hate it! Hate is a strong word that I dont always use but, why make a PvP game which was once based highly on strategy and wits to throw it all away to countless, annoying, effortless win, luck, specials!

And you don't speak for the community either. If you don't like it because it's luck-based (either godly or garbage), don't use it. Don't intend on changing it because you hate something that is purely (100%) based on luck. >.> Luck is fine addition to the game, you cannot get rid of it and it'd make things boring if it wasn't involved in any way. Pyro's charm is the luck which is involved in disabling random skills. Nothing else.
AQ Epic  Post #: 17
1/3/2013 10:52:20   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

The staff can't please everyone in life. If the staff tried to do that with bots guess what? we would have a single bot in the game because everyone wouldn't like it.

But on another note how do you think non variums felt everytime they went against a fully powered varium? planning and wits didn't save countless non variums from being punching bags to varium players due to a stat imbalance did it remorse? Many of the best planner that were non variums and lower level then varium players at that still needed luck along with planning to win and we both know this.

Epic  Post #: 18
1/3/2013 10:54:17   
Xendran
Member

quote:

The staff can't please everyone in life. If the staff tried to do that with bots guess what? we would have a single bot in the game because everyone wouldn't like it.


Blatantly untrue.

quote:

But on another note how do you think non variums felt everytime they went against a fully powered varium? planning and wits didn't save countless non variums from being punching bags to varium players due to a stat imbalance did it remorse? Many of the best planner that were non variums and lower level then varium players at that still needed luck along with planning to win and we both know this.


And this is why the varium gap is being removed. Point completely nullified.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 19
1/3/2013 10:59:40   
Mother1
Member

@ xendran

How can you disprove my first point? Everyone in the game has a hate towards a certain bot in the game. I didn't like the assault bot when I first was coming up because it made it extremely hard for my debuffs to do anything especially against jug players back then. Based on that right there the assault bot wouldn't be in the game.

Many players hate the azreals' borg because it abused by strength abusers and many have called for another nerf to this bot. That right there would make this bot not exist if they tried to please the masses with this bot.

The Pyro fly right in this thread right now Remorse admits to hating this bot. With that the pyro fly wouldn't exist if the staff tried to please everyone.

I could go on but I won't since you have no concrete evidence to prove me wrong with this.
Epic  Post #: 20
1/3/2013 11:01:21   
Xendran
Member

What im talking about is the single bot part. There are a massive number of specials that can be created that aren't based on luck.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 21
1/3/2013 11:07:10   
Mother1
Member

@ xedran

I see well me any you were on two different pages. But even so if the staff went about trying to please every single player in the game bots wouldn't exist period whether they have a luck based special like the pyro fly, or strategic like the others. Every bot has someone who hates it, but the staff won't stop the release of a bot because a few people don't like them.
Epic  Post #: 22
1/3/2013 11:20:13   
Xendran
Member

I'm not against luck bots, but pyro fly is way too extreme.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 23
1/3/2013 11:54:30   
AliveSlayer
Member

Supported :) But damage-less special? Are you sure about that? Though the thing about removing one skill (x/2) is a really good idea with x being the level of the skill :) My pyro mostly gives me luck. And the only suggestion people gave was to choose a skill which would normally ruin a game. Never thought of it in this way. Its a great suggestion! :D
Post #: 24
1/3/2013 12:00:40   
Mother1
Member

I have to ask though with this idea will the bot itself be on cooldown until the effect wears off or will the special itself be on cooldown?

Also for the damage less part of the bot the discription said a swarm strikes the opponent causing them to forget one of their moves. How can a strike that cause a player amnesia of a move be damage less now that I am coming to think about it?
Epic  Post #: 25
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