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Assimilate, leveling the playing field

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2/19/2013 20:28:48   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 So after a couple hundred fights I have come to the conclusion that assimilate is not on a level playing field with EMP or stom smasher.

Now I am not getting at the fact that EMP and Atom smasher are capable of much greater drains than assim at a much lower level as assim can damage the target while EMP and atom smasher cannot and it is energy cost free. My beef is that assim is the only E-drain with a warm up cost even though it is an implied warm-up cost.

If anyone is using assim they may have noticed it is locked on the first round of a fight and every round that you have full energy. This means that if you go second against a build that rattles off energy using attacks one after another you cannot drain some of their energy until some of yours in gone and by the time you can use assim you may very well be dead(as is the case against two turn builds).

Personally I think the solution to this is simple. If you energy is at max than have the energy return automatically set to 0 so that you can still drain your little amount of energy while your energy bar is full.

To make this a real balance discussion do you guys think all the draw backs to Assim(low energy drain, possible energy return to the target, implied warm-up, longer cool down) make up for the edges it has over the other E-draining skills?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 1
2/20/2013 9:12:55   
Melbourne
Member

I think it should be allowed to use with full energy, while I think it was made so you couldn't waste a turn not gaining back energy but it should be allowed to use with full energy or the first turn. And personally assimilate is my favorite energy draining skill because it damages them and steals energy.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
2/20/2013 16:38:51   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

People is going to make the argument that it does damage while the others only take energy but the max manage drain of 12 is atrocious especially given the increase in base mana. If people are going to say since it does damage and does not need a nerf at least change it so that it absorbs 100% of the mana taken ( which would be 12 ) because getting 6 mana, really? What good is that gonna do? Especially for a blockable attack. No one uses assimilate because it's so useless that just be a tell tell sign its a bad skill.
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
2/20/2013 20:20:19   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 @Valkyrie a drain as small as 1 can ruin a lot of the builds I see because they run with the exact amount of energy they need to use their skills. Also no one in this topic has said anything about a nerf both myself and Melbourne have mentioned a buff that would remove the ludicrous implied warm up time on Assimilation.

I am glad you mentioned the damage though because now I can blow that up into a tangent about how 2/3's of the classes in ED can get around the small drain of assimilation because they can regain energy on being hit. As you kindly pointed out Assimilate drains 12 energy at the max which almost no one runs with Assimilate at max and personally I have it at level 2 for a 4 energy drain. Anyway most people have reroute at lv 7 which returns 27% of damage done. So if I use myself as an example the most damage I can do to a Tech Mage or a Tactical Mercenary is 16 damage otherwise they regain energy and if you pair Assimilate with malfunction that is more than easy and I tend to hit in the 30's which is an 8 to 11 point gain before assimilate and a 4 to 7 point gain after assimilate. Now for the other 1/3 of the classes that can regain energy you have the Blood Mage and the Bounty Hunter with Reflex Boost which returns 15% of the damage down as energy, to these users the damage from above is roughly doubled to get the same results but that still means Assimilate isn't really doing its job as an energy draining skill if they are regaining energy when you use it but I have been saying this for ages and am constantly shot down so I don't try to get this across as a balance suggestion.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 4
2/20/2013 23:38:46   
CodexC
Member

Interesting take on Assimilate. I think it is a unique skill that is only avalible to a class that already has reroute. While I wouldn't say it is amazingly OP I do think it is a strong skill. I do not think it needs a buff as it dmgs enemy, returns mana and steals mana all at the same time.
Epic  Post #: 5
2/21/2013 1:32:12   
Remorse
Member

I completely supported this in the other similar thread,


I honestly don't know what the devs were thinking when they didn't allow it to be used by turn one.

If it was to make the skill fool proof then WOW.....



Its a teir 4! skill and by that level most players should have a basic understanding of the game not to use an energy regain with full energy....


Not allowing a DRAINING skill to be used simply because it has a regain bonus is one of the stupidest balance changes I have ever seen.


Epic  Post #: 6
2/21/2013 11:23:28   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I agree that assim should be used from turn 1. I find it quite annoying when I can't stop zerker or massacre because I have max HP. I think assim is, in itself, balanced. You never really need to take more than 7 energy at a time or so, plus it gives you energy back. Given how reroute was devalued by the HP and EP changes, I started using a stronger (level 5-ish) assim and only 4 reroute, and it worked surprisingly well against pretty much all builds. The move itself is a very flexible move which can greatly assist you if the opponent is trying to manipulate your energy by intentional turn skips or weak attacks. Conclusively, I don't think assim needs much changing other than availability on turn 1.
Epic  Post #: 7
2/21/2013 18:35:08   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 I would like to point out that to circumvent this oversight in skill creation I picked up the gun's energy draining core so I have the ability to use an energy drain on the first round.

Current an energy drain core or a block are two of the best ways for a Tech Mage to go second and properly foil a Two Turn build.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 8
2/21/2013 19:04:03   
ScarletReaper
Member

How about before we worry about this we give the only class without an energy drain a chance eh? Bloodmage has none. Would be nice if we got one. Just saying.

_____________________________
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 9
2/21/2013 19:17:52   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Blood Mage had Assimilate but it was replaced for some odd reason. Most likely because a class that is made to work with high damage output would be better suited with a skill like atom smasher than one with assim because of Reroute and Reflex Boost
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 10
2/21/2013 19:24:09   
ScarletReaper
Member

I know. I'm not saying add assimilate, but give us a new one that improves with dex or tech cause I am pretty much guarenteed a loss vs massacre bounties without one. Yea I know the gun skill core can, but they can just use that armor core and get it right back. We need options here.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 11
2/21/2013 19:26:18   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Something that works like atom smasher would work for Blood Mages as 1/4 of their skill tree are strength based skills and the strength build is one of the most common builds I see on a blood mage
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 12
2/21/2013 19:30:13   
ScarletReaper
Member

^Most definetly. Even if it was blockable I'd still take it. Maybe replace overcharge or something.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 13
2/22/2013 3:00:29   
Giras Wolfe
Member

The skill cannot be compared directly to atom smasher or EMP, because strike damage is also applied, which makes a big difference. However, I would propose that:

-The skill can be used when the player has full EP
-The energy draining effect cannot be blocked
-The amount of the drain should be higher, but only at higher levels, to increase the viability of builds that invest stat points in the skill. Something like:

Level 1 - 2 EP
Level 2 - 4 EP
Level 4 - 6 EP
Level 5 - 8 EP
Level 6 - 10 EP
Level 7 - 12 EP
Level 8 - 14 EP
Level 9 - 16 EP
Level 10 - 18 EP

Also, the use of only even numbers would prevent the temporary "spikes" in the energy regain percenteage. (I.E. a -3 Assimilation would give +2 energy, which is a 66% gainback not 50%.)

It is important to remember that the effect of the skill is threefold: damage, energy drain, AND energy gain, whereas atom smasher and EMP grenade COST energy and do zero damage. However, despite this, the skill deserves the aforementioned buffs to be a viable option.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
2/22/2013 7:04:58   
lolo666
Member

Agreed..

ONLY IF :
1. It has an Energy Cost...
2. Have like 2-3 cooldown
3. Does not give out damage.. But will have a bigger removal of MP.
4. It improves by strength.
5. Has a support requirement
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
2/22/2013 12:12:32   
EpicIsEpic
Member

@lolo666 1. It has an Energy Cost...
Well energy cost for uneque skill like SA would have a passive energy drain NO! Just NO. And the purpose of this skill is to get back a little energy so NO.
2. Have like 2-3 cooldown
It already has 3 Turn cooldown so...
3. Does not give out damage.. But will have a bigger removal of MP.
Tech mages ARENT STR normally so they deal very little damage with strike BTW it can be blocked so disagree and it also kind of makes the skill not uneque.
4. It improves by strength.
Now it is eactly the same as automn smasher for mercs just pointig it out. And as i said before tech mages ARENT good in str builds.
5. Has a support requirement
Support is already UP and making something use it is a nerf. And the post is about NOT nerfing it but making it STRONGER!
Post #: 16
2/22/2013 15:47:43   
Giras Wolfe
Member

I really would hate to see assimilate become an atom smasher or EMP grenade clone. Tech mages actually do perfectly fine with strength builds using assimilate. With assimilate, they can stop a bounty hunter from using massacre, or a mercinary from using berzerker, while doing 40-odd damage at the same time. The ability to apply damage AND an energy drain effect makes the skill totally unique in the game. The point of the skill isn't to drain a crippling amount of energy, but rather juuuuust enough to mess up their energy scheme, while doing damage and regaining energy at the same time.

If "levelling the playing field" means giving all classes the exact same skills with different names, forget it.

< Message edited by Giras Wolfe -- 2/22/2013 15:48:42 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
2/22/2013 19:33:18   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Leveling the playing field meant more removing the warm up time on assimilate. I mean it has the longest cool down time of all drain skills plus a warm up time.

In the time it takes a mage to use assimilate once a hunter or merc can use their drain twice
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
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