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to make the game more strategic.

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4/30/2013 4:18:34   
kaiseryeux21
Member

i thought for it for a while before posting, but after many experiences during battle which leads to many turn of events due to severe luck factors, i guess this might be the most appropriate thing to do.

we know that luck factors (deflection, blocked) will always be a part of this game. And being strategic is sometimes overlapped by this factors. So why not make blocks and deflections work only ONCE per battle. I mean, being blocked or deflected 3-4 times every battle is not funny anymore. It also works the other way around, when you blocked and deflected your opponents attacked 3-4 times is not self satisfying. I guess blocks and deflections should not be the deciding factor in winning a battle. It must only add a little excitement in game. It may work during rage we can't avoid it. But it should not work for 3-4 times every battle.

< Message edited by kaiseryeux21 -- 4/30/2013 4:20:05 >
DF Epic  Post #: 1
4/30/2013 4:29:25   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

a big NO, then strength builds would rule once again since if they get blocked once by striking, that means all their later attacks like beserker or bludgeon would become unblockable.
it would benefit all those builds which do not rely on the luck factor to win greatly.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
4/30/2013 4:33:48   
comicalbike
Member

lets be fair there is no balence now at all its a free for all
Epic  Post #: 3
4/30/2013 4:38:29   
kaiseryeux21
Member

str have been nerf already. support have also been nerf. blocking and deflecting once per battle seems like pretty fair. You rage, it was defledted, it can already turn on the favor to your opponent. but take a look at this, you use gun, it gets deflected. You use yeti bot, it gets blocked. your opponent had 10 hp left, you used bludgeon to kill him, it get blocked. Imagine how annoying it is.
DF Epic  Post #: 4
4/30/2013 4:45:19   
comicalbike
Member

thats what i mean you can have 140 support with good strength so the balance has all gone now
merc 140 support
mages up to 100 support
with good strength 2/3 hit kills
balance has gone completely lots of times they go straight though a focus build
so what should be done to correct this now any ideas

< Message edited by comicalbike -- 4/30/2013 6:37:51 >
Epic  Post #: 5
4/30/2013 6:35:54   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

rly? support and strength has been nerfed but i still see players use it effectively and it cuts through defenses like a knife through butter. high support and strength techmages would abuse this the most, followed by cyber hunters, bloodmages and mercenaries.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
4/30/2013 7:07:38   
kaiseryeux21
Member

quote:

high support and strength techmages would abuse this the most, followed by cyber hunters, bloodmages and mercenaries.


exactly my point trizz. if every class can benefit from it, y worry?? sounds more fair than me, than having only 1-2 classes benefits from extreme luck issues (bh & ch). We can never say that the game will be ruined because we haven't even tried it in the first place. We heart many many times already that the dev's are doing great in terms of balance. But i see things differently. this game will never be balanced unless 1 or 2 classes benefits from too much blocks and deflections. i will give you an example, BH with max SA plus smoke plus high dex. If a BM fights BH, there will always an average of 2 blocks every battle (talking from experience). another example, If a CH fights against BM. Max SA, plus high dex, plus malf which will lower your bot damage, lower your gun damage because you will more likely get deflected plus emp. another scenario, focus Tlm with High dex and high tech, max SS plus rage IA. Plus BM's gun will more likely be deflected because of Tlm's high tech. Not to mention plus 10 hybrid armor which will do little damage unto them even with rage chomp unblockable.
this is talking from experience.
DF Epic  Post #: 7
4/30/2013 7:35:59   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@above lets rephrase it since i didn't explain myself properly
high support and strength techmages would abuse this the most, followed by high support and strength cyber hunters, strength abuse bloodmages and strength and support abuse mercenaries.
how about that? now everyone will have to become that sort of build since focus or tank builds won't have their benefit of blocks or deflects anymore, why increase your defense? when you have more advantage on offence, the game itself would become like the start of omega all over again where strength builds and support builds reign, look at it now, support and strength techmages can defeat a focus build easily unless a few(like 3 or more) luck factors go on your side, you clearly haven't thought this through, and yes a yeti can stop it(not everyone can get a yeti so this excuse isn't valid) but if they get blocked and all their attacks(melee attacks) become unblockable, then what's the point? you are taking the strategy out of this game rather than increasing it.

people would become that particular build or class, so no, it won't bring build variety or make people not jump to that particular class, techmages and mercs would benefit greatly, if this change were ever made then I'm 100% sure that 80% of the players in the game would jump to that class.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 4/30/2013 7:38:45 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
4/30/2013 8:11:35   
comicalbike
Member

well i have always said if you cant beat them join them so now we have a game completely out of control when they said they can balance it better this way, as i see it now its free for all any thing goes ,so lets all have high support for mages mercs t mercs and ch a nd bh and bm,and lets all have fun put your strength as wel and kill in 1/2/3 goes
Epic  Post #: 9
4/30/2013 8:20:29   
kaiseryeux21
Member

@trizz, str/supp techmages are SO MUCH easier to beat. atleast for me coz i have yeti and im a bm so my bloodlust is working just fine. But most of those players i fought doesn't really care about their record. they are just players who only want faster wins but risking their win/loss record. so i guess it still depends on the type of players playing this game. IMO, we have the freedom to choose which side we are. If they choose to be the offensive type, so be it. As for me, i can also change class to TM with str/supp build but i choose not to. Its not my type. I want to keep my win/loss record as decent as it can be. So freedom of builds is very important in this kind of game. People nowadays are 5 focus and you know the reason why?? because its the only build that can somehow give you a chance to win. Not everyone wants to be 5 focus, but they are forced to be because of the current balance issues in this game.

My point is very simple. Let every player choose the build that suits their personality. the build that will compliment the type of player that he is. And that's when strategy will ris

< Message edited by kaiseryeux21 -- 4/30/2013 8:22:11 >
DF Epic  Post #: 10
4/30/2013 8:23:35   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@comical no, just no, it would be boring, so just leave it as it is now since people are adapting.
this suggestion would just make the game worse, and make the new botanical battle suit completely useless, that's another thing why this shouldn't happen.

quote:

str/supp techmages are SO MUCH easier to beat. atleast for me coz i have yeti and im a bm so my bloodlust is working just fine. But most of those players i fought doesn't really care about their record. they are just players who only want faster wins but risking their win/loss record. so i guess it still depends on the type of players playing this game. IMO, we have the freedom to choose which side we are. If they choose to be the offensive type, so be it. As for me, i can also change class to TM with str/supp build but i choose not to. Its not my type. I want to keep my win/loss record as decent as it can be. So freedom of builds is very important in this kind of game. People nowadays are 5 focus and you know the reason why?? because its the only build that can somehow give you a chance to win. Not everyone wants to be 5 focus, but they are forced to be because of the current balance issues in this game.

My point is very simple. Let every player choose the build that suits their personality. the build that will compliment the type of player that he is. And that's when strategy will ris

-yes you have yeti, but yetis shouldn't be the only thing that's needed to defeat that kind of build
-players who cares about their record are using the quick kill builds because most are using a balanced build and support strength abuse builds cuts through their defenses
-it doesn't matter if you choose not to, it is just you, don't you think about others? don't you think that others may like to use their robot so they are using a focus build while getting a decent win rate at the same time? it is like saying that don't worry you will still have your fun with your focus build and robot after this change but you get to lose all the time.
-you are wrong, even though your intention is good but this suggestion would not go like you would want it to, your suggestion would decrease the strategy even more.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 4/30/2013 8:33:40 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
4/30/2013 8:25:21   
comicalbike
Member

well wins no good to me any more as next rank to far away so the % does not matter any more just fast play and don't care about the losses
Epic  Post #: 12
4/30/2013 8:33:48   
kaiseryeux21
Member

@trizz, so it feels like you were suggesting that blocks, crits and deflections should be the deciding factor in battles. i guess we have the change the name of this game instead?? Lucky duel, instead of epic duel. coz its not epic anymore.
DF Epic  Post #: 13
4/30/2013 8:33:57   
Mother1
Member

@ Kaiseryeux21

I been playing as a focus 5 TM for a while, and even with switching to one of my 3 yeti's strength support build clobber me unless I have luck factors on my side. They almost always go first thanks to the formula Rabble made giving them the first strike. if it is a TM or CH they debuff with malf that takes 49-50 tech away. Even if I used the yeti, on them while their support and sidearm are gone, with so little resist and a lot of strength they can just either strike you to death or use the Plasma meteor core on you to end you.

With builds like this even with planning you will need some sort of luck whether it be you get to go first before them even if the odds are in their favor (which only happened for me once giving me the win) or at least 2 deflections or blocks which you want to happen once per battle. Certain builds would die out if your idea came a reality and then we would have the people who want to play as the builds that died out complaining.
Epic  Post #: 14
4/30/2013 8:40:31   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

quote:

@trizz, so it feels like you were suggesting that blocks, crits and deflections should be the deciding factor in battles. i guess we have the change the name of this game instead?? Lucky duel, instead of epic duel. coz its not epic anymore.

-luck factors are an essential for the game, azrael's will are regarded as strategic because you have to use it wisely like when someone is about to rage, having a possible chance to block it, therefore saving your life.

if your suggestions were implemented then epicduel would have to be called boring/lame duel instead, seriously, battle would end quicker than ever, robots=useless, technology=useless, dex=useless, some defensive skills=useless, defensive cores=useless.

so lucky duel would be a better option.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 4/30/2013 8:42:18 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
4/30/2013 8:40:54   
comicalbike
Member

Mother1 lets call it lucky duel because rabble made a big mistake with support starts first


< Message edited by comicalbike -- 4/30/2013 8:46:19 >
Epic  Post #: 16
4/30/2013 8:44:01   
kaiseryeux21
Member

@mother, i understand your point. but fighting this str/supp tm is more fun than fighting max SA hunters, and max SS tlms. Str/supp TMs are obviously easy to beat. it only makes it a little harder because there's plenty of them nowadays. but they are very beatable even without luck factors (atleast for me). My point is not really to eliminate completely luck factors but to make it a little less game changing. We can still have luck factors every battle but only once.
DF Epic  Post #: 17
4/30/2013 8:51:44   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

quote:

We can still have luck factors every battle but only once.

that's exactly like eliminating luck factors

quote:

but fighting this str/supp tm is more fun than fighting max SA hunters, and max SS tlms

that's what you think, now the yetis are useful because we still have a chance to block their melee attack
many are frustrated with support strength TM and CH
even sundance and g00ny said that it is OP because they have used it.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 18
4/30/2013 8:58:13   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

many are frustrated with support strength TM and CH
even sundance and g00ny said that it is OP because they have used it.

str/supp tech mage is a terrible build. terrible winning %s.
i would not call that overpowered, but rather a byproduct of the current balance system. (low hp, bad luck factors)

you did not see these terrible builds in delta alot did u?
why? because they are terrible, they are only viable now because player health points are pretty low.

quote:

but fighting this str/supp tm is more fun than fighting max SA hunters, and max SS tlms.

thats an opinion.
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
4/30/2013 9:00:31   
kaiseryeux21
Member

@trizz, now i would have a new definition of the word once.^^

eliminating is not my intention. coz i also benefited on those. that's why im just saying once per battle. One block and one deflection every battle is not bad after all. compare to all blocks and all deflections every battle. If so, where is the strategy on those?? imagine yourself hitting your opponent with all blocks and deflections. It happens to me many times because luck factors can occur at any given moment and attack. so making it once per battle will give players the assurance that at least one or two of their attacks will not be blocked or deflected. its not that you are anticipating a good amount of damage and boommmm, block and deflects come.
DF Epic  Post #: 20
4/30/2013 9:02:39   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

quote:

str/supp tech mage is a terrible build. terrible winning %s.
i would not call that overpowered, but rather a byproduct of the current balance system. (low hp, bad luck factors)

i wouldn't say so, i have used it and it did extremely well against tanks, but got bored later and changed back to a class where i can use all of my items/skills without restrictions, that's diversity and variety for me.

quote:

you did not see these terrible builds in delta alot did u?
why? because they are terrible, they are only viable now because player health points are pretty low.

we are talking about omega not delta -_-
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
4/30/2013 9:02:41   
goldslayer1
Member

this luck wouldn't be an issue if ur HP was much higher.

1 crit will cut ur HP in half now.
1 block will decide the battle.
first turn has a HUGE advantage now a days.

if HP was higher, crits would not cut ur health in half.
1 block will not decide ur battle because u now have more time for a strategic comeback.

quote:

we are talking about omega not delta -_-

im quite aware.
but idk if u read, i said this build is only good in the current balance
a str/sup build would have been terrible in delta because the balance (HP, among other things) was different.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 4/30/2013 9:04:13 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
4/30/2013 9:03:13   
comicalbike
Member

goldslayer1 well you are right because we have no boosters now so we use these realy bad builds because rabble gave us support starts first
Epic  Post #: 23
4/30/2013 9:05:57   
Scyze
Member

Well, let's see...
Your excuse is that you can end up getting blocked when you have Rage or whatever it is. Do you not understand that builds will revive one way or another? You're giving a great opportunity to let people do this because there's going be to be less luck factors. There's going to be little use of Dexterity and Technology.

This will bring out more Support and Strength Mercs (more Support since you can go first more often). Also, just because some girl like Sundance days it's OP doesn't mean it's OP. Strength/Support TM a are easy to beat.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 24
4/30/2013 9:07:48   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

quote:

this luck wouldn't be an issue if ur HP was much higher.

1 crit will cut ur HP in half now.
1 block will decide the battle.
first turn has a HUGE advantage now a days.

if HP was higher, crits would not cut ur health in half.
1 block will not decide ur battle because u now have more time for a strategic comeback.

not necessarily true in some cases, i have 75 health and i still survived after getting critted 2 times, ended up winning the fight, classes that has bloodlust can deal with crits extremely well since they gain about 6-9 health with each attack.
blocks are only a problem if you rely solely on melee attacks, that's why we have unblockable cores and weapons

quote:

Also, just because some girl like Sundance days it's OP doesn't mean it's OP. Strength/Support TM a are easy to beat.

and did you use your yeti when you are versing them? with this change, yetis won't be as effective since their every melee attack would become unblockable if you only blocked them once, have you see their rage bludgeon's power?
i think it is powerful because i have used it too.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 4/30/2013 9:12:00 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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